Incline Colony Ship Combat Beta Thread

[Binky]

Implants not having a downside is something that never felt quite right to me. But I also understand they'll be one of the tools players will use to survive - kinda like nets, bombs, and the like from AoD. Still, even if everyone on the ship is a-ok with cyborgs and transhumanism, the fact remains that those implants are very valuable - doubly so since many are destroyed during "extraction" and new ones can't be made anymore.

A character with implants is basically a walking bag of cash. This should not be ignored in the full game. So you go to a swell place where less than savory characters with plenty of firepower congregate with your spiffy glowing eyes. Ka-ching! A fool and his implants are soon parted.

 

[Tigranes]

Implant taxes, obviously.

 

[Saduj]

I wouldn't have been able to finish the demo without using all the flash bangs (including one I looted after a fight) and some of the poison. The character was sub-optimal but I'm not sure fixing those choices would have made that much of a difference in every fight. I remember my characters having a 5% chance of hitting Carter regardless of what the range or type of attack was. But he doesn't wear a breather so the game seemed to be screaming "Poison this guy!". I'm not doubting that others beat him without using poison but since my character only managed a 5% THC there was no way I was going to try to hit the Autist RNG Lottery rather than doing the obvious.

Anyway, I agree that a no-consumables during combat perk seems kind of hard to explain but if there is going to be one, I would make the bonus +1 followers. Seems like an even trade based on how valuable consumables were in certain fights and that way the bonus is more combat related.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

A character with implants is basically a walking bag of cash. This should not be ignored in the full game. So you go to a swell place where less than savory characters with plenty of firepower congregate with your spiffy glowing eyes. Ka-ching! A fool and his implants are soon parted.

But we don't know if the implants are visible or not.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Implants not having a downside...

There's a downside - pulse grenades (not in the demo), effective against turrets, droids, and implants.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm almost wondering if consumables shouldn't even be in a game like CSG. I don't mean grenades or stims specifically, but I mean their gameplay role of "finite get out of jail cards". Well, I don't really mean they shouldn't be in the game, but...

The upside is that they provide tactical variety, and it can be sensible even in a hardcore game to let players get past one or two battles that their build/tactics by all rights should lose.

The question is how to prevent the misrecognition that "my party + 5 grenades used = my normal combat capacity", and to train them to think the other way round. It's weird, because given the way RPG players always hoard consumables and NEVER use them (even when they end up with 8000 potions), you would think they know this already.

I do imagine/hope that in the full game, you don't see stims or grenades for quite a few hours at the start, and then there's an appropriate introduction to them - e.g. your first few grenades are sold through special dialogue/NPC who talks about acquiring these valuable items, rather than just appearing in the shop.

 

[Black Angel]

Maybe a training arena or a tutorial area, where you hammer it down on them that, "This is how you're supposed to roll, no consumables, no utility items."? And then to contrast it, shows how powerful consumables and utilities are, while making it a point that they're scarce and not to be spent recklessly.

 

[Binky]

But we don't know if the implants are visible or not.

Don't know about the rest, but the ocular ones are visible. Noticed an interesting thing back when I was playing the demo. My characters with ocular implants got glowing blue eyes. Now, I don't play anymore and tend to delete saves and screenshots, but thankfully other players post theirs on Steam.

And then there's the portraits. With blue and orange eyes.

There's a downside - pulse grenades (not in the demo), effective against turrets, droids, and implants.

From what I've read about pulse grenades they'll be rare. I'd consider it a downside only if a character with implants got debuffs (instead of just losing buffs), got stunned, or lost HP when blasted with a pulse grenade.

 

[Black Angel]

There's a downside - pulse grenades (not in the demo), effective against turrets, droids, and implants.

From what I've read about pulse grenades they'll be rare. I'd consider it a downside only if a character with implants got debuffs (instead of just losing buffs), got stunned, or lost HP when blasted with a pulse grenade.

Iirc, in the full game the only way to get implants is to harvest it from corpses using Biotech skill, so there's that factor too. It's not immediately apparent now in the demo because those points which should've gone to the corresponding stat and skill are allocated to anywhere else.

 

[Darth Canoli]

We got quite a few of such complaints from players who use chems and grenades in every fight, then run out and think the design is bad/broken because they can't buy more. I sense a lot of negative reviews upon release.

Just add a feat : Chem addict
+ 50% grenades drop rate / +100% grenades sold in shops -1 AP to throw grenades // -20% resistances.

So everyone's happy.

 

[Fenix]

So, this guy refused to give this feedback on CS, so I did it instead.

Most perks boring, +-10 to derived skills, +-something that already is part of the character. No perk that changed gear or char behavirous - like literally the 2 standout perks had effects on kill and ignoring reaction fire.
Guns felts samey, AoD had more distinction between bow and crossbow and had no perks...

 

[Takamori]

Colony Devs, its too late to think about Biotech augments?Something along the lines they are less intrusive, but they cost a lot more to do it and of course occupy implant slots. But the good side you are immune to stuff that could affect mechanical augmented people.
Thought about this while remembering about Shadowrun options.

 

[jackofshadows]

So everyone's happy.

No. Fuck them and fuck you.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So, this guy refused to give this feedback on CS, so I did it instead.

Most perks boring, +-10 to derived skills, +-something that already is part of the character. No perk that changed gear or char behavirous - like literally the 2 standout perks had effects on kill and ignoring reaction fire.
Guns felts samey, AoD had more distinction between bow and crossbow and had no perks...

His feedback informs us that he didn't like the feats (the rest of his post makes it clear he didn't like anything about the demo) which is informative but doesn't give us anything to work with or even consider.

First, feats that change/add something require extra programming (which adds up fast) and plenty of testing. Second, compared to what? Some examples (from Fallout or other games with firearms) would be much appreciated. This way we don't have to sit and wonder what would make Horvatii happy.

Colony Devs, its too late to think about Biotech augments?Something along the lines they are less intrusive, but they cost a lot more to do it and of course occupy implant slots. But the good side you are immune to stuff that could affect mechanical augmented people.

It's a good idea for the sequel but not for this game. While we can always consider adding something new if we can do it quickly, what would these implants add other than immunity to pusle grenades? A radically different upgrade system requires a radically different development path, which simply isn't possible in this game. Not to mention, where would this biotech come from?

 

[Fenix]

Well, I'm not him but Underrail has plenty of feats that add some special ability, new to a character.

 

[thesecret1]

I do imagine/hope that in the full game, you don't see stims or grenades for quite a few hours at the start, and then there's an appropriate introduction to them - e.g. your first few grenades are sold through special dialogue/NPC who talks about acquiring these valuable items, rather than just appearing in the shop.

All you have to do is mention their amount is limited or that they are very expensive and should thus only be used as a last resort.

 

[CappenVarra]

sit and wonder what would make Horvatii happy?

based on his post history, it sounds like Mission: Impossible

so, mission command, fuck that loser

 

[Twiglard]

Vault Dweller have you considered increasing combat map size and firearm range? JA2 is a time-honored tactical combat classic with superior mechanics. Learn from the best. If the enemy can run up to you (to the farthest cover you can position yourself onto in the first turn) in the first turn then there's something clearly wrong with the system.

The game looks like a turn-based Call of Duty where people with pimped-out heavy expensive rifles stand 5 meters from each other shooting full auto.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller have you considered increasing combat map size and firearm range? JA2 is a time-honored tactical combat classic with superior mechanics.

As I said earlier, a game like Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm can give you a huge map filled with enemies, point at a distant target and let you fight your way there. It's loads of fun but can't really work in a proper RPG, the best way to illustrate it is the difference between Fallout 1-2 and Fallout: Tactics.

 

[Saulot]

I wonder how to mitigate that design-wise.

Normally, money and limited resources mitigates wanting to spam a consumable. Even if money somehow wasn't an issue, I highly doubt there will be hundreds of stims or grenades available.

But if you want something in the system, a negative feedback loop, perhaps a method similar to how Witcher did toxicity. Each chem you use increases your tox level, each fight (or some other metric) you go without chem use decreases. Reach certain thresholds of tox level and you start having negative modifiers.
Maintain those thresholds too long and you get some sort of chem addiction, and perhaps those chems are slightly less effective on you.

 

[Pearass]

So, I finally got the chance to play through the combat demo. After reading a lot of the feedback here, I was starting to worry that it might not be as amazing as I was hoping. I am pleased to say, however, that it was thoroughly enjoyable to me. I'm not exactly the biggest combat guy, but it wasn't THAT hard. I had a much harder time with the combat of AoD, to be honest. This felt like a marketable improvement to me.

I made a pistol dex type of build. I thought it was pretty cool how having a knife in your offhand made reaction attacks possible against melee fighters. Pretty cool. I died once on the last fight but made it through the second time. I'm not very proficient at expressing WHY combat feels good to me, so all I'm going to say is that it felt great. I take my time and plan a lot, and it helps. Preparation is probably going to be pretty damn important in this game.

I know it wasn't exactly a focus of the demo, but I have a lot of faith in the writing for this game. The premise alone is probably strong enough to carry most serviceable RPGs, but I think the prose is going to elevate it to the next level. I don't want to say too much in case I come across as deluded or reaching. Needless to say, I'm still very, very excited. Best of luck to Iron Tower!

 

[Fenix]

I died once on the last fight but made it through the second time.

WTHELLLLL

 

[Infinitron]

Updated trailer:

 

[Technomancer]

Looks good enough I suppose, but some of the text disappears too fast to be read without pausing.

 

[Alienman]

Yeah, the text goes by way too fast.