Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Colony Ship RPG Update #2

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,504
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,7120.0.html

Since the Colony Ship RPG will be a party-based game, let's talk about our party system.

Design Goals

Typically, RPG party members serve a purely tactical role, giving your more bodies to control in combat and access to different combat abilities. In a sense, you’re role-playing an entire squad as outside of combat there is very little (if any) difference between the character you created and the characters you’ve recruited or created next.

It works great in RPGs that are mostly about combat, but calls for a different approach when it comes to non-combat gameplay. The main problem is that party members offer nothing but combat benefits (occasionally, freaky sex to relieve combat stress and party banter), giving you very few reasons to treat party members any differently than the main character.

In short, the problem is that in most RPGs party members are mindless zombies lacking any free will, agenda, goals, etc – the very qualities that separate an actual “character” from a zombie. Thus, our main design goal is to create proper characters that have a will of their own, as well as agendas, beliefs, goals, and other infuriating qualities.

Eli_Wallach_2953602k.jpg

^ Party banter

No, it doesn’t mean the “gotcha!” design. It means that if you want to play a character that does things a certain way, you either run with a posse that has a very similar outlook on life (which doesn't always guarantee smooth sailing) or do your best to avoid pissing them off. Needless to say, if you’re a treacherous scum, don’t be surprised if your men take the lessons you teach them to heart. In other words, all unpleasantries caused by your party members should be the direct result of your own actions, aka dynamic reaction based on your choices in quests, conversations, reputation, and such.

To give you a very simple example, if you decide to double-cross a religious faction, don’t be surprised if a religious party member won’t stand for it. He might leave you, he might turn on you, he might join your enemies in a fight, etc. His exact decision won’t be random but will depend on a number of different factors.

Furthermore, don’t expect the party members to follow you anywhere for free, which might create tensions and personal dilemmas:

BuryingTreasureVarian.jpg

^Captain Flint is about to divvy up his treasure with his party members

Last but not the least, party members aren’t immortal heroes. It will be possible and even easy to lose them if you insist on getting into every fight (think of saving Vardanis in AoD). You should even be able to lose an entire crew and come back alone, Flint-style, with all the proper consequences (fewer people would want to follow a suicidal maniac). Much like in AoD, not every fight will be winnable by ANY party at ANY point.

Mechanics

  • Your Charisma determines how many people can follow you. So far the formula is: 1 follower at CHA4, 2 at 5, 3 at 7, 4 at 9.
  • XP will be divided by the number of people in the party, so a smaller party will level up faster.
  • Large pool of potential recruits, including mutants and a droid. The droid won’t require XP (more for you) and will be upgraded rather than leveled up (think Lore/Crafting plus parts you’ll need to scavenge).
  • All party members will have unique feats the PC won’t have access to. They will have good stats and skills and will be created with the same love and affection you create your own character.
  • In AoD the content was determined by your stats, questlines, and skills. In CSG party members will often have valuable in-game knowledge that would unlock certain places and extra quest solutions. Basically, 50% of gating will be outsourced to the party members.

fagin__oliver_and_dodger_three_by_thebarefootedsasha.jpg

^ A party member introduces Oliver to a well-connected NPC he wouldn’t have met otherwise.

  • Your party members will be able to participate in conversations but you won’t control their lines. Think of letting Virgil to handle the conversation with the assassin near the crash site in Arcanum. Basically, you select a line for your PC to say or “let party member X handle it for you” (and hope for the best).

083111_scarface.jpg

^ an overly enthusiastic party member after being asked to greet the visitors

  • You won’t be able to take equipped items from the party members, but you’ll be able to offer them proper replacements (i.e. no ‘disarm and dump’). Other than that you’ll have full control of party members in combat (if they object to your leadership, they will do it before combat starts) and when leveling up.
  • Unlike the player’s character, the party members will have a complex personality & beliefs system that would determine their reaction. Most likely these stats will remain hidden from the player and you’d have to figure out what you’re dealing with by talking to them and observing how they act/react.
  • Instead of going for AWSUM!!! characters with troubled past, we're going for a low-key gang of colorful characters.

Basically, less:

ti102669_large.jpg


and more:

the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly_4.gif


triello2.jpg
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,288
Location
Poland
I suggest CHA 4-6-8-10 for 1-2-3-4 party members since it makes CHA 10 kinda less useless.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
That's not the only thing CHA will handle. An average party should have 3-4 characters (including the player's character) and CHA 5-7 is a much more reasonable requirement than 6-8.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,504
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Can you lower your CHA less than 4 and have zero followers? Awor type introverts want to know.
No. Basically, you have to be this tall to ride be an adventurer. If you don't want any followers, don't ask anyone to join you.

I'm not sure you understood Irenaeus' question correctly. Your update says "one follower at CHA 4", which implies you have zero followers if it's less than that.

(How about giving you -1 followers at CHA 2? Your character kills himself because he's so ugly :smug: )
 
Unwanted

Irenaeus III

Unwanted
Shitposter
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
990
Ok, but there better be some bonus in not taking followers, even if it's a single achievement lol

Edit: #LMAO gud 1 infi
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,288
Location
Poland
That's not the only thing CHA will handle. An average party should have 3-4 characters (including the player's character) and CHA 5-7 is a much more reasonable requirement than 6-8.

I know you plan for CHA to not be useless but in AoD it kinda is the obvious dump stat and tying it to follower number is the obvious and foolproof solution.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Can you lower your CHA less than 4 and have zero followers? Awor type introverts want to know.
No. Basically, you have to be this tall to ride be an adventurer. If you don't want any followers, don't ask anyone to join you.

I'm not sure you understood Irenaeus' question correctly. Your update says "one follower at CHA 4", which implies you have zero followers if it's less than that.
Since it IS a party-based game, you get one follower for free (if you want to, of course).

That's not the only thing CHA will handle. An average party should have 3-4 characters (including the player's character) and CHA 5-7 is a much more reasonable requirement than 6-8.

I know you plan for CHA to not be useless but in AoD it kinda is the obvious dump stat and tying it to follower number is the obvious and foolproof solution.
In general, CHA will handle:

- party size
- recruiting (while you may need CHA9 to get 4 party members, you may need CHA10 to get a certain party member)
- conflicts between you and the party members (in addition to dialogue skills, of course; joint checks like Cha >= X && Persuasion >= Y
- influencing party members' beliefs

Here is a quick and very simple example from the dungeon crawler game we're working on. You and a party member you get when you start the game are sent to deal with a local 'uprising'. So it's 2 against 5 (not the first fight). You can fight or you can use your CHA to influence the opposition. If your CHA is 6, for argument's sake, one enemy will leave the party, so it's 2 against 4 which is more manageable. If your CHA is 7, he will join your party making it 3 against 4, which will make quite a difference.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
You know, it makes sense. Every Bioware NPC is an overwhelmingly M type and they're just looking for an excuse to get boned by some retard - being abused this way turns them on just like it does for them to be ordered to charge into their doom.

Also Vault Dweller you realise the first half of your update is "Classic Obsidian NPCs" :smug:

All party members will have unique feats the PC won’t have access to.

Basically, 50% of gating will be outsourced to the party members.

Your party members will be able to participate in conversations but you won’t control their lines.

MY WISHES HAVE BEEN FULFILLED
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Isn't Sadist/Masochist a well known divide even in American popular culture now?
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
4,198
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
It's great that Colony Ship will be party-based. All the time when I was fighting in AoD I thought that the combat would be great if it was party based, since you can only go so far with single party member and no magic. It was especially evident during the final fight in Teron, where it was a bit of my output and then watching NPCs whack each other. It would be impossible for me to go on without that magical speed-up command.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
We'll introduce the dungeon crawler when we have the first screens and videos. Unlike the colony ship RPG there isn't much to explain there and everyone knows what to expect.

Nick's working on the party system. Oscar is working on the levels. I'm working on 'quests' and dialogues (level 1 text is almost done). Ivan is making creatures (2 creatures are done, working on the third one, then he'll tweak the Hellgate's construct a bit). We're also working on breaking down armor to go with 5 items: helmet, left arm, right arm, torso, legs. You'll be able to combine different pieces and have a lot more leather pieces. That's about it for now.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
the party members will have a complex personality & beliefs system that would determine their reaction. Most likely these stats will remain hidden from the player and you’d have to figure out what you’re dealing with by talking to them and observing how they act/react.

You need to implement an empathy skill. Dialogues with 3 or 4 party members simultaneously would be nice, too. People in real life engage in the conversation around them.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom