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Divinity or Eternity?

Which is better?


  • Total voters
    405

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,436
Location
Copenhagen
PoE is considered a better game by twice as many people as those who consider DOS better. This is sad. It just shows that lots of codexers will take a mediocre dump of Obsidian because OBSIDIAN MCA LOL xD <3 <3 :3 that is a copy-paste of Icewind Dales over an actually decent game with some strong points (even with weak ones too) that was also original in some of its concepts and ideas (I refer to the use of various spells of elements and their combinations in the combat).

Most of you are a disappointment. Please refrain from visiting Codex ever again.

EDIT:

I also forgot to mention that this mediocre dump is like 4 times shorter than DOS. Quite telling, really.

That is because the Codex is largely filled with mainstream players. It is like candle light vigils when a death or disaster hits. Only a small portion are actually there honestly, the rest are there just to appear as if they give a shit.

These posts are brimming with enough butthurt to fill GD's quota for a week. Am I disappointed that there are prestigious members of this community who would seriously rate D:OS over Pillars of Eternity? A bit. Do I conclude that I am a member of a true master cRPG race while my fellow D:OS lovers are beneath even my contempt? Lol.

You guys need to calm the fuck down before that pain in your backside spreads to your central nervous system and paralyzes you entirely.
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
PoE is considered a better game by twice as many people as those who consider DOS better. This is sad. It just shows that lots of codexers will take a mediocre dump of Obsidian because OBSIDIAN MCA LOL xD <3 <3 :3 that is a copy-paste of Icewind Dales over an actually decent game with some strong points (even with weak ones too) that was also original in some of its concepts and ideas (I refer to the use of various spells of elements and their combinations in the combat).

Most of you are a disappointment. Please refrain from visiting Codex ever again.

EDIT:

I also forgot to mention that this mediocre dump is like 4 times shorter than DOS. Quite telling, really.

That is because the Codex is largely filled with mainstream players. It is like candle light vigils when a death or disaster hits. Only a small portion are actually there honestly, the rest are there just to appear as if they give a shit.

These posts are brimming with enough butthurt to fill GD's quota for a week. Am I disappointed that there are prestigious members of this community who would seriously rate D:OS over Pillars of Eternity? A bit. Do I conclude that I am a member of a true master cRPG race while my fellow D:OS lovers are beneath even my contempt? Lol.

You guys need to calm the fuck down before that pain in your backside spreads to your central nervous system and paralyzes you entirely.

Not upset, just a fact. I have seen that mainstream mentality since I got here. It is amazing how so many act as if they are supportive of old school concepts but then get all mushy like a teenager to the latest pop star when games like these come out. I mean, for craps sake, even Roguey is being more objective than some of the fucking idiots here. Seriously, this game is being scored in the 90-100 range. Have we become that fucking easy? Seriously, it is like watching the video "EA in a Nutshell", it is depressing.
 
Last edited:

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
Agreed. But I was bored and wanted to watch some fanboy fighting. Guess I overestimated Larian's devotees.


D:OS has some major problems. The issue is how easy codexers are. I mean, its like a pack of hot dogs and a near beer and the fucking idiots are giving it up like starstruck teens on prom night. I am not saying PoE is bad, but this is fucking stupid.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,843
It would be an appropriate joke on me if I end up enjoying rebalanced Original Sin (or even rebalanced Wasteland 2) over Pillars.

At least there's pretty much zero chance of my ranking Dead State over it regardless of what they do.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,695
Overall, it's hard to compare the games because they're really not that similar aside from genre choice.

But I'll try and do it anyway.

I've never played a game quite like Divinity before. It has a lot of features and gameplay from other games that I like all packed into one experience. Half the features you see in Divinity would stand alone as the main selling point in other games, but with Divinity they're all crammed in there together which is awesome. And it has sweet turn-based combat that isn't afraid to lets players be thinking persons, so I go for that. Pillars is obviously a solid game, but it's not the first of its type. There are a dozen variations of this game already. Doesn't make it bad, but it definitely gives me a "I've been here before" feeling when I play it. It's also way too fucking constrained for my tastes. You're not allowed to buff up pre-combat (except for food, I guess). There are no specialty bullets or arrows to be using. You can only place one trap at a time, instead of a shitload to spectacularly crush your enemies. Pillars has designed shortcuts, designed alternatives, etc. I've always gone for games that allow you to think outside the box, and Pillars is just not that sort of game. It wasn't even supposed to be, so I'm not docking points or anything, it just is what it is. (And I am quite enjoying it.)

A lot of people talk about how if you slapped a story on Divinity it'd be unbeatable in terms of 'greatest of all time' shit. Right, exactly. And all you'd need to do that was a handful of good writers. You can't slap Divinity's gameplay on Pillars, though. There's no changing what it has. IMO, Divinity is headed in the direction I want to see RPGs go, so I just prefer it.
 

LizardWizard

Cipher
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
999
Overall, it's hard to compare the games because they're really not that similar aside from genre choice.

But I'll try and do it anyway.

I've never played a game quite like Divinity before. It has a lot of features and gameplay from other games that I like all packed into one experience. Half the features you see in Divinity would stand alone as the main selling point in other games, but with Divinity they're all crammed in there together which is awesome. And it has sweet turn-based combat that isn't afraid to lets players be thinking persons, so I go for that. Pillars is obviously a solid game, but it's not the first of its type. There are a dozen variations of this game already. Doesn't make it bad, but it definitely gives me a "I've been here before" feeling when I play it. It's also way too fucking constrained for my tastes. You're not allowed to buff up pre-combat (except for food, I guess). There are no specialty bullets or arrows to be using. You can only place one trap at a time, instead of a shitload to spectacularly crush your enemies. Pillars has designed shortcuts, designed alternatives, etc. I've always gone for games that allow you to think outside the box, and Pillars is just not that sort of game. It wasn't even supposed to be, so I'm not docking points or anything, it just is what it is. (And I am quite enjoying it.)

A lot of people talk about how if you slapped a story on Divinity it'd be unbeatable in terms of 'greatest of all time' shit. Right, exactly. And all you'd need to do that was a handful of good writers. You can't slap Divinity's gameplay on Pillars, though. There's no changing what it has. IMO, Divinity is headed in the direction I want to see RPGs go, so I just prefer it.

Yeah man, skull trap spam thinking person gameplay.

Btw you can place up to 6 traps at one time in PoE not including warding seals. Get gud.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,567
You think slapping a great story on a game is easier than doing the same with combat? I can direct you to a few thousand modders that would probably disagree.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Btw you can place up to 6 traps at one time in PoE not including warding seals. Get gud.
And you can place as many freaking traps as you want in Divinity. So long as I have barrels of shit, I can make stuff blow up awesomely at whim. The awesomeness that is a 30-barrel chain explosion where you poison everyone and then SET THEM ON FIRE cannot be matched. You can literally turn the entire battlefield into molten slag!
 

SniperHF

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
1,110
Isn't act 1 of D:OS longer? In total content it might be shorter but the "critical path" is much larger.
 

Aenra

Guest
There are also people that finished Dragon Inquisition in one day. The lot of it.
There are also people that took three, six months to finish Wizardry IV.

What is your point again? Because using subjective metrics? Themselves based on factors as unpredictable as human behaviour?

You can do better than this Roguey. You're out of practice
(edit: am not capitalising on flawed arguments to drive an agenda. Glad i bought PoE, very good game. My own reasons for posting in this thread is that Obs people might read the input. In between all the shit)
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,577
Location
Denmark
D:OS was great until you finished Cyseal, then it rapidly declined.

The combat of D:OS was and still is pretty fun and interesting, yet it also became boring after a while, not because it was bad, but because it became the only thing (for me) that the game had to offer in the long run.. (so naturally it got boring).

Which brings me to the story. D:OS had basically none or a really shitty one, whereas PoE's story at least has kept me interested for a long time and still does.

PoE's combat, however, is one I quite despise. I hate RTwP but I love RPG's. I would much rather have PoE with the combat of D:OS, as I've stated before.

So which game is greater for me? I had fun with both, but I suppose the story elements of a game, is what ultimately draws me in.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,843
Isn't act 1 of D:OS longer? In total content it might be shorter but the "critical path" is much larger.
Fine, I'll compare some other 'chieves

Trick bag: 57%: Get your first pyramid. Pretty early game.
Shell shock 51%: Throw a thing into the ocean close to the tutorial dungeon, earlier than trick bag most likely.
Suspicious minds 49%: Fairly early crit-path stuff, much earlier than the end of PoE's act 1.
I walked with a zombie 31%: Closer to the end. It looks like 7% got bored at this point and couldn't even be bothered to go after the area boss.

I suspect the number of people who have reached the end of act 1 of PoE will end up closer to 50%.
 

JasonNH

Augur
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
277
There is one thing to take into consideration when comparing achievements between the two. I started D:OS on Steam because Larian, being bros, opened up the game for early access to all Kickstarter and early access customers on Steam. I played the game a lot there until final release, at which point I switched to my GOG copy that became available. If you look at my Steam achievements, everything will be limited to Cyseal since that is where the game stopped prior to release. It isn't because I didn't finish the game, it's because I played it during early access and switched distributions at release (well, as soon as GOG got their shit together). One of my friends did the same. Anecdotal evidence for sure, and in the end may be statistically irrelevant, but who knows.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
There is one thing to take into consideration when comparing achievements between the two. I started D:OS on Steam because Larian, being bros, opened up the game for early access to all Kickstarter and early access customers on Steam. I played the game a lot there until final release, at which point I switched to my GOG copy that became available. If you look at my Steam achievements, everything will be limited to Cyseal since that is where the game stopped prior to release. It isn't because I didn't finish the game, it's because I played it during early access and switched distributions at release (well, as soon as GOG got their shit together). One of my friends did the same. Anecdotal evidence for sure, and in the end may be statistically irrelevant, but who knows.
:bro:
I do play on Steam (bought physical disk), but I generally play offline, so I generally don't get achievements, or get isolated few when I happen to be online to get updates.
Another thing here is that I wonder how many players didn't even reach Cyseal or quit shortly after reaching it.
Among the things good people at Larian consistently fail at beginnings seem to be a biggie - Divinity II had fairly dreadful inner Broken Valley segment it confined you to early in game, where you got mired in inconsequential combat with inconsequential goblins and where I actually borequit the game on my first attempted playthrough, Original Sin has you wandering aimlessly around the beach and optional-but-worthwhile starter dungeon - in both cases the pattern is the same - the section before you get to the meat of the game and before the game opens up somewhat is padded with boring content.

That's bad practice because whatever interest the intro can inspire in player is limited and fleeting (especially if, like with DOS intro, it actually accomplishes the opposite) and it's crucial to quickly stoke up the fire as soon as possible by throwing player something to focus on:
  • PS:T hit you immediately and effectively with a very strong hook - a desire to find out WTF is going on, then upped it with weird and atmospheric environment.
  • Morrowind gave you a kick in the right direction, then immediately opened up as an explorable and weird world, the hook it gave you was also fairly promising.
  • Wizardry 8 - a game more on par with Larian's Divnity series, all things considered (including both focus on gameplay rather than story and embracing the goofiness) - still opened up with party crashing near a curiously and abruptly abandoned monastery.
  • Even Skyrim at least offered engagement on a visceral level - with near beheading interrupted by dragon burninating everything and escape while hacking your way out through the side opposing whomever you chose to follow - establishing initial attitude player may have towards main factions operating in the gameworld
In general, the more player feels fish out of the water and the more they are kept on their toes at the beginning, the better. It helps opening their senses and piquing their interest, managing to get them to establish some attitude towards elements of your gameworld is also helpful, because it makes player care, and during the initial period of the gameplay making player care is your most important task.

Now, let's see Larian's games:
  • Divinity 2 - you probably want to play this game to pursue a desire Bioware paid only a lip service to? No, fuck you, go fight some boring goblins before anything happens, then go fight some more goblins (at least you got some fairly purty intro so maybe you'll persevere until the game actually gets interesting thanks to sheer force of will and/or scarcity of games allowing you to become a dragon). The ball generally starts rolling once you meet Talana and from this moment game has no problem sustaining player's interest.
  • Divinity: Original Sin - you want to play this game why exactly? And didn't quit before the blahblah sourcery stopped scrolling? Astounding. You're even still interested in seemingly rather mundane murder plot that's the main questhook? Now, go wander a beach, fight some shit, fight some more shit in the tutorial dungeons, do a bunch of mini-sidequests, participate in (actually fun, for a change) beach battle and then (if you don't get sidetracked) proceed with the actual investigation, which seems nicely done in terms of overall design, but still not very exciting. The ball only starts really rolling once you encounter your first starstone, because that's the first event that throws player off.

Even if your main focus is gameplay, you need to hook the player on something before you can successfully sell it, if only because selling the gameplay usually takes time regardless of the genre because the progression generally follows some sort of learning curve - you won't get player enamored with your gameplay right away, because right away the player will be limited to fighting limited array of shit tier enemies with limited array of shit tier weapons and, if game is an RPG, with lvl 1 character with limited array of shit tier skills.

I'm currently playing DOS (haven't got PE yet) and I'm enjoying it considerably (mostly for elemental mechanics), but if I wasn't already familiar with Divinity 2, my first and only playthrough of DOS would have ended before the second part of intro.

Compared to Divinity 2 the game has vastly inferior art direction, visuals, atmosphere and storytelling elements, while sharing itemization and level inflation flaws.
Not even humor works as well as in Div 2. The thing isn't whether or not it's goofy, because as much as I prefer more serious settings, tongue-in-cheek moments really worked in Divinity 2's favour. The thing is that humour in Dvinity 2, although abundant wasn't actually all-permeating - this had two advantages. First it allowed the humor to catch player off guard making it work much better. Second, it allowed player to care which is important in a game where player can make choices.
Lastly, the area design, although rich and competent is rather mundane so far, without anything comparable to Divinity 2.

So, to sum it up - so far the combat mechanics (in particular the use of elements and stuff like teleportation) is the only thing keeping DOS afloat for me, although I must admit it's doing a really good job at that.
 

Snorkack

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
2,979
Location
Lower Bavaria
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
While you got a point with the rather lackluster earlygame content of D2 and DOS, I think the Larian Late-/enggame stuff is infinite times worse. Remember exploring the Orobas Fjord, having a great time wondering how many more of those awesome big areas are to discover? Then the game slaps the fucking same flying fortress in your face 3 times, presents you the worst plot twist of gaming history and says "the end?"
DOS, while not as bad, suffers from the same issue. After cyseal the game feels soo uninspired...

I'd rather they fix this in the future than the mediocre but bearable (and skippable!) beginning of their games.

Apart from that I just noticed how my reply was way out of context. Be welcome to just ignore it :)
 

Renfri

Cipher
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
541
D:OS has better combat, music and it's art style is more consistent. In PoE characters are too colorful or something, so they dont match to background too well (minor thing). When it comes to the combat, well TB > RTwP. Kirill's music is D:OS is just too good and he is super awesome dude:

But in the end, Pillars is still alot better game imho.
 

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