Does deeper TES:Lore mean anything at all in the game

[Nael]

Michael Kirkbride's Morrowind lore in a nutshell:

 

[Turjan]

My brofist is for the sign, just to be clear.

Yeah that's the gist I got, it's just all the in-world explanation tripe that's mercurial.

But I think that's the funny thing: they are both valid as they basically both say the same. I had brought up Hindu ideas of godhood. In principle, you could say that Hindu religion is pretty much compatible with the idea that life is a simulation like a video game. This also means you don't have to decide between these possibilities. They are both equally valid and basically say the same.

 

[Beastro]

But I think that's the funny thing: they are both valid as they basically both say the same. I had brought up Hindu ideas of godhood. In principle, you could say that Hindu religion is pretty much compatible with the idea that life is a simulation like a video game. This also means you don't have to decide between these possibilities. They are both equally valid and basically say the same.

And you're just helping me further my dislike of Eastern Religions and their convoluted way of things.

 

[stray]

My brofist is for the sign, just to be clear.


But I think that's the funny thing: they are both valid as they basically both say the same. I had brought up Hindu ideas of godhood. In principle, you could say that Hindu religion is pretty much compatible with the idea that life is a simulation like a video game. This also means you don't have to decide between these possibilities. They are both equally valid and basically say the same.

This goes back to my comment.. the gods are crazy.

Aka/Shor/Pelinal/Talos...

The lesson to take is be a invincible genocidal game character like them.. and best to play everyone against the other too (consciously or otherwise). Fight for Aka or Shor alike.. gather all Daedric weapons while you're at it.

edit: There's no depth in these games other than being insane. That's roleplaying in TES for you.

Well that, and gathering flowers. Apparently that's roleplaying too, according to one of the devs.

 

[Turjan]

And you're just helping me further my dislike of Eastern Religions and their convoluted way of things.

Funny that you get this from me saying that they actually may have a point.

 

[stray]

Probably the best Eastern religion to apply to this setting is Taoism.. where you don't do shit and don't overthink.. and maybe do a little sightseeing.

 

[Turjan]

Probably the best Eastern religion to apply to this setting...

I don't apply. I find.

 

[Beastro]

Funny that you get this from me saying that they actually may have a point.

It's not that, it's just me being your typical Western of Germanic extraction.

 

[stray]

It's not that, it's just me being your typical Western of Germanic extraction.

I have the privilege/curse of being both Scandi and Asian.

So all of this Eastern vs Shor stuff could make sense.. who knows. But I'll take the Taoist route and just not overthink it. I'm entertained by Kirkbride, but the main thing I get from it is that the monomyth is about a god kicking it's own ass... repeatedly. edit: That and he thinks ultimately people like the Thalmor will win. End of setting.

 

[Beastro]

I have the privilege/curse of being both Scandi and Asian.

So all of this Eastern vs Shor stuff could make sense.. who knows. But I'll take the Taoist route and just not overthink it. I'm entertained by Kirkbride, but the main thing I get from it is that the monomyth is about a god kicking it's own ass... repeatedly. edit: That and he thinks ultimately people like the Thalmor will win. End of setting.

And my take is to enjoy it as it adds mystery and depth to the lore and not both going deeper because it's from a fucking video game made up by a druggie. It's not worth thinking it over too much but it still good atmosphere.

 

[Drax]

Best things are made up by druggies.

 

[Beastro]

Best things are made up by druggies.

I like things made out of spontaneity that can't be replicated or made into a formula, yet I want them made rationally and not by the random firing of neurons made by a tripping brain.

I guess I'm hard to please.

 

[Drax]

You said you were nazi german, right..?

 

[stray]

I like things made out of spontaneity that can't be replicated or made into a formula, yet I want them made rationally and not by the random firing of neurons made by a tripping brain.

I guess I'm hard to please.

Best not bother. At best, find your fix (for formulas) in the game design. Bethesda excels about the sandbox and world design. I'm not their biggest fan, but look how badly others do it in comparison.

 

[Beastro]

You said you were nazi german, right..?

Germanic, as in the general, but not entire part of Western European culture/language.

 

[baturinsky]

For me, game = gameplay. If story is not told through gameplay, I don't see it as a part of the game.

 

[Drax]

Probably one of my "Top 5" characters in Tamrielic lore is Pelinal The Blamer, The Bloody, The Third:

The Song of Pelinal
Volume 6: On His Madness
Thoughts on Pelinal's madness
[Editor's Note: Volumes 1-6 are taken from the so-called Reman Manuscript located in the Imperial Library. It is a transcription of older fragments collected by an unknown scholar of the early Second Era. Beyond this, little is known of the original sources of these fragments, some of which appear to be from the same period (perhaps even from the same manuscript). But, as no scholarly consensus yet exists on dating these six fragments, no opinions will be offered here.]

And it is said that he emerged into the world like a Padomaic, that is, borne by Sithis and all the forces of change therein. Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a myth-echo, and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging. Pelinal cared for none of this and killed any who would speak god-logic, except for fair Perrif, who he said, "enacts, rather than talks, as language without exertion is dead witness." When those soldiers who heard him say this stared blankly, he laughed and swung his sword, running into the rain of Kyne to slaughter their Ayleid captives, screaming, "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!" [And it was during] these fits of anger and nonsense that Pelinal would fall into the Madness, where whole swaths of lands were devoured in divine rampage to become Void, and Alessia would have to pray to the Gods for their succor, and they would reach down as one mind and soothe the Whitestrake until he no longer had the will to kill the earth in whole. And Garid of the men-of-ge once saw such a Madness from afar and maneuvered, after it had abated, to drink together with Pelinal, and he asked what such an affliction felt like, to which Pelinal could only answer, "Like when the dream no longer needs its dreamer."

Fucking kickass.

 

[stray]

Probably one of my "Top 5" characters in Tamrielic lore is Pelinal The Blamer, The Bloody, The Third:


Fucking kickass.

That's mostly what I was referring to earlier.

He's crazy. Pelinal doesn't know who he is... one minute he embodies Shor and genocides on the elves.. the next he's the opposite and represents Akatosh. He's like a recurring embodiment of the schizophrenia of the gods... and/or the schizophrenia that was caused when mortals were born.

I might be wrong, but I think the dovahkiin is another incarnation. And this goes back to how much you should care for lore. It does not matter what you do. You're apparently blessed by Shor according to Nords, but you could be a dragon loving elf and serve Akatosh... and suppress the Nords. It doesn't matter.

 

[Drax]

That's mostly what I was referring to earlier.
He's crazy. Pelinal doesn't know who he is... one minute he embodies Shor and genocides on the elves.. the next he's the opposite and represents Akatosh. He's like a recurring embodiment of the schizophrenia of the gods... and/or the schizophrenia that was caused when mortals were born.

I like Pelinal exactly because of that, because he's an individual driven mad by being, basically, the Jesus of a Polytheistic reality. This is best expressed when you take into account his missing heart (The Rebel, The Dead God) and the "red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon" (The King, The Dragon), the dualities, his statement that "(O Aka) I watch you watching me watching back!" (The Witness) and the Empire that was to born (The Rebirth).

I might be wrong, but I think the dovahkiin is another incarnation. And this goes back to how much you should care for lore. It does not matter what you do. You're apparently blessed by Shor according to Nords, but you could be a dragon loving elf and serve Akatosh... and suppress the Nords. It doesn't matter.

Eh, to me the TES games and the TES lore are two quite different... products? Since Beth is obviously incapably of building a game from their lore anymore, they just build them around the lore.
I

 

[Gregz]

3 pages in and no "Vivec had to stuff her mouth with his milk finger to keep her from singing Veloth into ruin."

For shame Codex.

 

[stray]

Eh, to me the TES games and the TES lore are two quite different... products? Since Beth is obviously incapably of building a game from their lore anymore, they just build them around the lore.
I

True.. it's not exactly going to live up to it (and I think the Pel stuff was all Kirkbride, while the following game is mostly inspired by his stuff). But the sense of power and importance is there in the character at least. Dovahkiin is pretty significant in their lore, and tied into all the Shor/Aka dichotomy. I think there's some resemblances to Pelinal.

And the fact that you can pretty much play any race combo lends to the schizophrenia based in the lore above. You could play it straight and truly believe you're some embodiment of Shor.. or you could roleplay someone more confusing.

That's about the extent I'll blend the lore with the gameplay.

 

[Drax]

My main gripe with Skyrim and the dovawossname, from a storyfag pov, is that the player may be considered, in a way, as another Shezzarine, which is highly disrespectful and not at all.

 

[stray]

My main gripe with Skyrim and the dovawossname, from a storyfag pov, is that the player may be considered, in a way, as another Shezzarine, which is highly disrespectful and not at all.

It just lends more to the schizo nature. He's both dovahkiin and shezzarine.

If I recall correctly, it's the whole Shor/Aka schism all over again. Shezzarines were avatars of Shor. But a Dovahkiin is an Aka based thing...

To further screw with things, they present that choice where the Greybeards defend Parthuurnax, while it's the blades who want you to kill him. A Shezzarine/Lorkhan would technically be the enemy of dragons, but yet it's the Greybeards (Nords) who are buddies. While it's the outsiders (the Blades) who encourage you be more like Shor.

 

[Drax]

Eh, more than "schizo" I see it as an expression of the initial dynamic of the TES universe, Anu and Padomay and all that jazz.
Basically this:

The Enantiomorph, essentially, is a fundamental and underlying concept of duality and/or merged dichotomy which is found to be an inherent structure of the Aurbis and is reflected through all its aspects. It is the ideal combined state of conflict between two opposing forces that are so similar that they could change their roles and not even know it. The Enantimorph, in its most basic form, is the schism between the terms "Is", and "Is not"; it began when the Void, absolute non-existence, was split by "AE" ("Is" in Ehlnofex), the state of being, and from this, all Enantiomorphs are subgradients of. This 'first Enantiomorph' is echoed through the formation of Anu and Padomay, and other concepts, such as Light and Dark, Good and Evil, Bird and Serpent, Order and Chaos, and so on. The Enantiomorph can be utilized for Divine ascension and is sometimes seen as the Fourth Walking Way

Edit: To be clear, my problem is not with the dragonborn as a character, the problem is that that is THE player character, I don't think having you play as that guy in a game is a good choice. It's like making the player be Vivec, it's fucked up.

 

[stray]

Eh, more than "schizo" I see it as an expression of the initial dynamic of the TES universe, Anu and Padomay and all that jazz.
Basically this:

Aka and Shor/Lorkhan are just extensions of that concept, I think.

I mean, probably not much difference, but I think Anu and Padomay and all that is like seriously primordial shit.. while Akatosh and Shor has more to play with on a character level and/or politics.

And with Aka/Shor specifically, it's not quite "good/evil". It's Nord/Men vs Elves specifically. In the elves' eyes, siding with Shor is chaotic (especially to the Thalmor. That's why they want to destroy the universe... In their eyes, suppressing Nords and Shor would be bringing things to Order).


In game, the two main choices to play with (imo) is the Civil War choice and Paarthurnax. Just how "Nord" do you wish to be. edit: Not that it matters, but just to answer the OP, I think this is where the lore blends well with gameplay. Just how far do you wish to live up to the Nord ideal.