Dragon Age Dragon Age 2 was released ten years ago

[Butter]

As bad as KotOR 2 is, it's still better than DA 2, and it doesn't reek of cut corners everywhere you look. There's only so much you can blame the timetable.

Right, empty rooms of Malachor 5 and a nonsensical ending of KotOR 2 just "doesn't reek of cut corners everywhere you look". Not even mentioning a cut droid planet.

A nonsensical ending is in keeping with the rest of the nonsensical story, and that's one thing in the game. I said "everywhere you look" because that's actually what it is in DA 2. The only Obsidian game that can compare to DA 2 for being brazenly unfinished is Tyranny.

 

[AW8]

Oh it absolutely does. The inferior lighting in the reused maps and the descent-into-incomprehensibility of the ending. DA2's ending may be dumb, but it doesn't suddenly drop half a dozen subplots.

Overall, Bioware's priorities were worse than Obsidian's, sure.

There's also the HK factory* and GenoHaradan subplots that never go anywhere. And party members like Disciple and Bao-Dur, who have basically no content compared to the rest.

And Korriban.

A lot of KotOR 2 is spent travelling through dead, empty worlds, but I don't think they were intended to be that empty. Korriban in KotOR 1 is full of content and has you go on an undercover mission. In KotOR 2, there's basically nothing on Korriban except for the memorable "Apathy is death"-tomb, and the planet is over so quickly it's a stretch to even consider it one. It's just dungeons with trash enemies and a disappointing ending where you find Master Vash's corpse. There's not even a reaction from anyone, you just find her journal and that's it, quest completed. For the other Jedi Masters you get a confrontation and learn a new skill, with Vash you get a text message. It smells clearly of cut content, and Vash was indeed supposed to be found alive on the cut droid planet, if I understand correctly.

*Introduced mid-game and supposed to tie in with the ending (and does in the Restored Content Mod), but you wouldn't know that from playing the released game alone, thus I count that as an instance of "smells like cut content" separate from the ending.

 

[9ted6]

As bad as KotOR 2 is, it's still better than DA 2, and it doesn't reek of cut corners everywhere you look. There's only so much you can blame the timetable.

Right, empty rooms of Malachor 5 and a nonsensical ending of KotOR 2 just "doesn't reek of cut corners everywhere you look". Not even mentioning a cut droid planet.

A nonsensical ending is in keeping with the rest of the nonsensical story, and that's one thing in the game. I said "everywhere you look" because that's actually what it is in DA 2. The only Obsidian game that can compare to DA 2 for being brazenly unfinished is Tyranny.

DA2 gets a lot of flak for its shitty reused levels and mindless gameplay, but it should get more flak than it does for its shitty story and mindless lore additions/changes, just like Inquisition.

 

[Camel]

DA2 gets a lot of flak for its shitty reused levels and mindless gameplay, but it should get more flak than it does for its shitty story and mindless lore additions/changes, just like Inquisition.

Adding a tattoo to highlight a Tranquil mage instead of showing it with a voice acting and blank expression was one of my biggest pet peeves. Nice modern makeup too.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

DA2 gets a lot of flak for its shitty reused levels and mindless gameplay, but it should get more flak than it does for its shitty story and mindless lore additions/changes, just like Inquisition.

Adding a tattoo to highlight a Tranquil mage instead of showing it with a voice acting and blank expression was one of my biggest pet peeves. Nice modern makeup too.

I will say I like the DA2 elves looking like sectoids. That was something I liked in Witcher 1 that got fucked up in Witcher 2 and 3, too. I have a harder time believing elves are treated like shit by humans in your fantasy setting if they all look like hot humans, easier to buy it if they're more alien. And yeah you can say that party member in Inquisition is an ugly spud but she's the exception and not the rule as far as DAI elves go. Also think she was supposed to be a half elf but I can't remember.

 

[9ted6]

DA2 gets a lot of flak for its shitty reused levels and mindless gameplay, but it should get more flak than it does for its shitty story and mindless lore additions/changes, just like Inquisition.

Adding a tattoo to highlight a Tranquil mage instead of showing it with a voice acting and blank expression was one of my biggest pet peeves. Nice modern makeup too.

I forgot about that one, probably because as bad as that is it's nowhere near as bad as Inquisition's Tranquil retcon. Total grimderpification.

DA2 gets a lot of flak for its shitty reused levels and mindless gameplay, but it should get more flak than it does for its shitty story and mindless lore additions/changes, just like Inquisition.

Adding a tattoo to highlight a Tranquil mage instead of showing it with a voice acting and blank expression was one of my biggest pet peeves. Nice modern makeup too.

I will say I like the DA2 elves looking like sectoids. That was something I liked in Witcher 1 that got fucked up in Witcher 2 and 3, too. I have a harder time believing elves are treated like shit by humans in your fantasy setting if they all look like hot humans, easier to buy it if they're more alien. And yeah you can say that party member in Inquisition is an ugly spud but she's the exception and not the rule as far as DAI elves go. Also think she was supposed to be a half elf but I can't remember.

I can see why some people might like that, especially since Origins elves really weren't that unique. That said I wish they'd have just stuck with one consistent aesthetic. Elves being so oppressed also made more sense if you considered it as a result of their alleged actions, not that they looked strange to humans.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Complexity also plays a role. BG2 had a short turn-around yes, but it's also a 2-D Isometric RPG with sprites and flat-backdrops.

DA II, even on a familiar engine, was still a 3rd-Person party RPG with new assets...really shitty assets, but new assets all the same. Artists gotta art.

Dragon Age 2 was built stupid. They knew the time they had, hell they fucking agreed to it, and they spent it on a bunch of superfluous shit when they should’ve been laser focused. They could’ve conveyed Kirkwall with smaller locations and made it come across better. They didn’t even really need to show the outside. It could’ve just been, at least as far as Kirkwall was concerned: Kirkwall map, a handful of interior locations, and randomly generated streets for random encounters in the city. The main focus should’ve been dungeons; the game has the vast Deep Road network build up in the first game, the mines, and that forest area in the mountains or whatever. They could’ve constructed the whole game around the dungeons you’d explore. They could had the dungeons be randomly generated and worked out a better system to fit everything together than what they ended up doing. I don’t even really get the thinking behind DA2, because they’re going into it knowing they have less time, and at least the pitch to the public (which the game forgets by the end) is that it’s a smaller scale story. Smaller scale, intimate, personal story was something they really pushed in the marketing. So just fucking do that. You based your whole game around being in one city that’s connected to this giant legendary dungeons system that was introduced in the first game. Have that be what the game is a about. Adventurers trying to make a living exploring dungeons is a well know common staple of fantasy stories. So have that be what the game is about. BioWare had been making more and more of a thing with party interactions during gameplay, especially with the first Dragon Age, so just really lean into that aspect of Dragon Age. Like it’s a smaller game than the first, but it’s going even bigger with party members talking to each other while you’re crawling around in the dungeons. Could’ve even made that a selling point of the game. Like, yeah, the game world is smaller, but we do have all these party members you can do jobs with, and they all have different unique interactions with each other depending on the make up of the party.

Hell, they probably could’ve gotten away with the dungeons you fight in being the only 3D aspect of the whole game, and all town stuff being 2D. Even without going that far, if time is such an issue, maybe you should be asking yourself questions like: Does this shop need to be a 3D location I can walk around, or would it be fine if going into this location just showed the show keeper at the counter and I just bought stuff from them.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Adding a tattoo to highlight a Tranquil mage instead of showing it with a voice acting and blank expression was one of my biggest pet peeves.

Eh, it makes sense in-setting if for some reason you want to identify a tranquil at a glance. Same logic as with various irl uniforms and insignias (including tattoos and various other forms of bodily brandings).

And it's not either/or, but both:

 

[Maxie]

DA2 gets a lot of flak for its shitty reused levels and mindless gameplay, but it should get more flak than it does for its shitty story and mindless lore additions/changes, just like Inquisition.

Adding a tattoo to highlight a Tranquil mage instead of showing it with a voice acting and blank expression was one of my biggest pet peeves. Nice modern makeup too.

what's wrong with modern makeup? in order for games to be fun, girls therein must be cute

 

[Roguey]

Also think she was supposed to be a half elf but I can't remember.

Nah, DA lore is that half-elves aren't possible. When elves and humies procreate, the stronger human genes always win out.

 

[Technomancer]

Nah, DA lore is that half-elves aren't possible. When elves and humies procreate, the stronger human genes always win out.

It's different from DnD but they still have the concept in-universe. https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Elf-blooded

While it states that elf blooded are always human and its not genetic, it also directly contradicts it right after with drawing of hybrid child with weird ears.

Elf blooded char from DA2 too had slightly pointy ears.

 

[Delterius]

While it states that elf blooded are always human and its not genetic, it also directly contradicts it right after with drawing of hybrid child with weird ears.

either the facebook flashgame fucked up or this part 'This does seem unlikely, however, as certain elven characteristics may carry on to an elf-blooded child, "fully elven" traits will not.' means that weird ears is the maximum of elvishness that mixed kids can attain

 

[Technomancer]

i think the facebook flashgame fucked up

If so, DA2 fucked up first. He looks off.

 

[Delterius]

i think the facebook flashgame fucked up

If so, DA2 fucked up first. He looks off.

I suppose there's a third option. A second retcon. The half elf we see in DA:O and the one from DA:I look completely human from what I remember. We do know the elf appearance redesign was moderated greatly between DA2 and 3. So there's less room for elfblooded humans to look that much more 'elfin'.

 

[Absinthe]

It's different from DnD but they still have the concept in-universe. https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Elf-blooded

While it states that elf blooded are always human and its not genetic, it also directly contradicts it right after with drawing of hybrid child with weird ears.

Elf blooded char from DA2 too had slightly pointy ears.

That was confirmed by Bioware to be a mistake, a result of not everyone in Bioware being on the same page. Half-elves are supposed to be fully human in Dragon Age's setting. Then again, Dragon Age has no issues with contradicting and retconning itself all over the place, even in the same entry to the series, even all the way back in Dragon Age: Origins, so looking for consistent worldbuilding is a lost cause.

 

[Sarathiour]

DAO only start retconning itself from the addon extension, searching continuity in the lore is a fool's errand. Even the characters arc are a joke, the took the "hardened" leliana as canon for DAI only to give the option for the player to get her trough a "de-hardened" arc.

 

[Absinthe]

DAO easily contradicted itself on mages being unable to handle lyrium, for instance. Grey Warden darkspawn senses are also a joke (and in Awakening somehow darkspawn manage to sneak attack a Grey Warden fortress).

 

[Roguey]

DAO only start retconning itself from the addon extension, searching continuity in the lore is a fool's errand. Even the characters arc are a joke, the took the "hardened" leliana as canon for DAI only to give the option for the player to get her trough a "de-hardened" arc.

That's not a joke. Regardless of her experiences in DA:O, the years in-between make her mean and they give you the chance to reverse that. It's fine.

 

[Delterius]

DAO easily contradicted itself on mages being unable to handle lyrium, for instance.

I remember Gaider raising Lyrium Addiction as an example of a 'compromise' with gameplay. Supposedly it just wouldn't be fun. So really in this case they were just cowards about it.

 

[Camel]

Eh, it makes sense in-setting if for some reason you want to identify a tranquil at a glance. Same logic as with various irl uniforms and insignias (including tattoos and various other forms of bodily brandings).

And it's not either/or, but both:

DA:O Tranquils were fine without tattoos screaming about their condition.

Also think she was supposed to be a half elf but I can't remember.

Alistair is a half-elf, by the way.

I remember Gaider raising Lyrium Addiction as an example of a 'compromise' with gameplay. Supposedly it just wouldn't be fun. So really in this case they were just cowards about it.

He also said that all party members in DA:O except Alistair and MC who are the Grey Wardens would've died from the Darkspawn taint. So in Awakening all party went through the Joining. Shouldn't we talk about DA:O in it's own thread?

 

[Fedora Master]

You most assuredly shouldn't be talking about this game at all, ever.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Also think she was supposed to be a half elf but I can't remember.

Alistair is a half-elf, by the way.

Maybe it's because she's a city elf that I was thinking she was a half-elf. I vaguely remember something about her not being very elfy being a point somewhere in the game so it was probably dealing with regular elves elsewhere. Been some years since I played DAI too so my memories of it are fairly spotty. Actually on the topic of elves I've kinda liked that Fenris and Merrill don't get along in DA2, first time through I ignored Fenris entirely 'cause he's a damn dirty elf so I've been using him this time around and he's had decent banter with the other party members even if he's kinda shit himself. Then again I also like Merrill is a wizard that doesn't know right from wrong because IF THERE'S ONE THING I LOVE IN MY RPG'S IT'S COMICALLY EVIL WIZARDS

I WILL EXTEND HONORARY WIZARD STATUS TO CAMELLIA IN WOTR AND XOTI IN DEADFIRE

 

[9ted6]

DAO only start retconning itself from the addon extension, searching continuity in the lore is a fool's errand. Even the characters arc are a joke, the took the "hardened" leliana as canon for DAI only to give the option for the player to get her trough a "de-hardened" arc.

That's not a joke. Regardless of her experiences in DA:O, the years in-between make her mean and they give you the chance to reverse that. It's fine.

I disagree. There's no good reason that she becomes a ruthless hardened killer no matter what you do in DAO, and it's especially nonsense that she goes from being devoutly faithful to literally saying that belief in the Maker's just a trick to keep people united.

 

[Roguey]

I disagree. There's no good reason that she becomes a ruthless hardened killer no matter what you do in DAO, and it's especially nonsense that she goes from being devoutly faithful to literally saying that belief in the Maker's just a trick to keep people united.

Did you pay attention to the plot of Inquisition?

 

[9ted6]

I disagree. There's no good reason that she becomes a ruthless hardened killer no matter what you do in DAO, and it's especially nonsense that she goes from being devoutly faithful to literally saying that belief in the Maker's just a trick to keep people united.

Did you pay attention to the plot of Inquisition?

Inquisition had a plot?