Fedora Master
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2017
- Messages
- 28,273
Fuck Gaider, the story woulda been shit either way. Gameplay too.
Huh? His boss battle wasn't cut, it happened whether you sided with him or with the templars, in complete defiance of logic. Did he mean that there was supposed to be a proper boss fight with this character, and not have him turned into an unrelated monster from DAO? Sure, but why would the asset reuse need the boss fight to happen regardless of your choices?I had to write that dialogue where Orsinio turned even if you sided with him, because his boss battle had been cut and there was no time to fix the plot.
Did he mean that there was supposed to be a proper boss fight with this character, and not have him turned into an unrelated monster from DAO?
Sure, but why would the asset reuse need the boss fight to happen regardless of your choices?
Does this mean that the plot device idol's possession would be retroactively determined by player choices? If Hawke sides with templars, then Orsino was the one being driven insane by the red lyrium and not Meredith?Did he mean that there was supposed to be a proper boss fight with this character, and not have him turned into an unrelated monster from DAO?
That is correct. People siding with the mages would only fight Meredith, people siding with the templars would only fight Orsino.
Why did they have to justify why you couldn't side with Orsino? Was it just about content? People siding with mages would get one less boss fight than those who sided with templars, and that's so unfair that they had him deliberately turn himself into a demon even when he is winning?Sure, but why would the asset reuse need the boss fight to happen regardless of your choices?
Once they cut the branching they had to justify why you couldn't side with Orsino, so they made him flip out and turn into a demon.
Does this mean that the plot device idol's possession would be retroactively determined by player choices? If Hawke sides with templars, then Orsino was the one being driven insane by the red lyrium and not Meredith?
Why did they have to justify why you couldn't side with Orsino? Was it just about content? People siding with mages would get one less boss fight than those who sided with templars, and that's so unfair that they had him deliberately turn himself into a demon even when he is winning?
This is absolutely insane. An entire plot device with a ton of bullshit mystery lore added solely to make a character make an illogical choice they otherwise would have no reason to make. It's even worse with the mage guy, he doesn't even have the excuse of insanity to turn on the people who are helping his faction survive (and winning).Going by what Gaider said, red lyrium wouldn't have been a factor at all. They had to add that to justify why Meredith would turn against people who sided with the templars.
So DAII was designed by mentally retarded people, understood. It shows.Many years ago Gaider said that he still fought for Orsino to only be included as an optional fight for those who hated mages, but was overruled by the level design lead.
P.S. Reminder that some biodrones still have DA2 tattoos.
...And amongst the living are seen, carriers of the accursed Darksign.
Not gonna lie, I was inspired by your thread about DA:O. But since I made a Codex account on September that was simply impossible.The time to make this thread would have been back in March or at least back in April when Gaider posted a bunch of tweets about it, not now.
For posterity
https://twitter.com/davidgaider/status/1382001252641370116
DA2 was the project where my writing team was firing on all cylinders, and they wrote like the wind- because they had to! Second draft? Pfft. Plot reviews? Pfft. I was so proud of what we all accomplished in such a brief time. I didn't think it was possible.
DA2 is, however, also where the goal posts kept moving. Things kept getting cut, even while we worked. I had to write that dialogue where Orsinio turned even if you sided with him, because his boss battle had been cut and there was no time to fix the plot. A real WTF moment.
So I think it's safe to say DA2 is my favorite entry in the DA franchise and also the sort of thing I never want to live through ever again. Mixed feelings galore.
Mary Kirby
@BioMaryKirby
She/her. Writer at BioWare Edmonton. Sometimes brews coffee from the tears of fans. Mostly tweets cats. Views are my own.
The one exaggeration I really, REALLY wanted, that we never got to do was Varric narrating his own death scene with Hawke weeping over him, then cutting to Cassandra's pissed off glaring at him.
No, David. It isn't safe to say.So I think it's safe to say DA2 is my favorite entry in the DA franchise
No, you won't. The only interesting aspect about DA2 was the premise of following a single character's rise across the years, but that premise didn't translate to anything material in the final product. And even if it had, it wouldn't have been enough to carry the title.I would personally say that DA2 is a fantastic game hidden under a mountain of compromises, cut corners, and tight deadlines. If you can see past all that, you'll see a fantastic game.
Lovely, thanks Roguey. So it's confirmed, EA didn't pull the rug out from under 'em, BioWare knew how much time they had from the start. But instead of producing game content to that schedule, they decided to overhaul the Origins platform, then sold us three maps and half a .jpg for fifty bucks.On one hand, DA2 existed to fill a hole in the release schedule. More time was never in the cards. DA2 was originally planned as an expansion!
Uh-huh... It's fascinating how one can build a successful career in videogames and yet remain so utterly clueless outside of their narrow field of expertise.I'm sure you're like "get rid of repeated levels!" ...but I don't care about that.
This IS pretty damning.I'm sure you're like "get rid of repeated levels!" ...but I don't care about that.
Mass Effect had a same warehouse on almost all planets and it was terrible but unless you completed all sidequests, most normies who finished only the main quest didn't see it. I don't remember reused environments in the Witcher, and well, last I played it in 2007. So my memory might be hazy. DA:O had some irritating places with Tower of Ishal, the Mage Circle, goddamn the Deep Roads and the Fade.Lotsa games have repeated levels/level design, including Mass Effect, The Witcher, and a few spots in Dragon Age: Origins. The key to avoiding complaints about it is to make it not totally obvious, which is done through cosmetic changes to make them at least look/feel a bit different and cutting off all the currently-unused portions from the map/minimap. With DA2, they didn't have the time to do either so it just looks extra lazy.
Come on, you're grossly understating things. This isn't copy-pasting a few rooms here and there or mixing and matching a bunch of prefab corridors, the game only has a handful of environments that you revisit over and over and over again. DA2's levels are MMO-tier design but at the much smaller scope of a single-player RPG, it was all just taking the piss.Lotsa games have repeated levels/level design, including Mass Effect, The Witcher, and a few spots in Dragon Age: Origins. The key to avoiding complaints about it is to make it not totally obvious, which is done through cosmetic changes to make them at least look/feel a bit different and cutting off all the currently-unused portions from the map/minimap. With DA2, they didn't have the time to do either so it just looks extra lazy.
Patience. Three more years and your wish will be granted. Then we will have a trilogy of threads.cant wait for "dragon age inqisition was released 7 years ago" thread in like a week
I don't remember reused environments in the Witcher, and well, last I played it in 2007. So my memory might be hazy.
Come on, you're grossly understating things. This isn't copy-pasting a few rooms here and there or mixing and matching a bunch of prefab corridors, the game only has a handful of environments that you revisit over and over and over again. DA2's levels are MMO-tier design but at the much smaller scope of a single-player RPG, it was all just taking the piss.
A restriction which BioWare was well aware of when they began production. The sane thing to do would've been to scrap the engine overhauls in favour of local updates, reign in the cinematic scope, and focus on developing proper game content on the Origins systems and pipelines. And that doesn't mean just levels, but encounters and narrative agency as well, DA2 has basically bugger all of anything. You don't get a free pass charging me AAA prices because you fucked up your development priorities and only had time to develop indie-grade shovelware.It was time/budget restrictions. Comparable to the same time/budget restrictions Witcher had (or more recently, Greedfall, to name another example).