Dragon Age III is Bioware's absolute LAST chance and here is how they can get it right.(Long read)

[Jick Magger]

Despite the fans insistence to the contrary, Bioware's romances have always been fairly sub-par in the writing department. It's just that it's easier to criticize in recent years since Bioware keeps bringing it closer and closer into the spotlight, and at one point made it outright mandatory for your character. TOR, whose romance storys were written mostly by Jennifer Hepler, has by far the worst romantic writing Bioware has ever done.

 

[Mastermind]

Nothing they've done is ever that explicit.

It was a parody and exaggerated on purpose. But...


I counted 3 positions. It's short clips of softcore porn, all they did was replace background elevator music with overused vocals.

Bias showing. I remember a lot about Leliana's past. Bioware companions on average now have significantly more dialogue than they did in BG2.

I don't doubt that they have more dialogue, and you are right that it is bias. I am biased against dull shit, which is what Leliana's past was and why I can barely remember anything of it. Even the retarded elf from DA2 was more memorable (though she was memorably bad).

 

[Roguey]

I counted 3 positions. It's short clips of softcore porn, all they did was replace background elevator music with overused vocals.

It's ridiculous but not explicit. They've also recognized it as ridiculous and moved away from it somewhat since nothing like that is present in DA2.

I don't doubt that they have more dialogue, and you are right that it is bias. I am biased against dull shit, which is what Leliana's past was and why I can barely remember anything of it. Even the retarded elf from DA2 was more memorable (though she was memorably bad).

Nothing says interesting like a bipolar elf crying about her damn wings and the circus all the time.

 

[waywardOne]

WotC and the ESRB. BG is a teen game y'know. In KOTOR, another t-rated game, all you do is off-screen "kiss."

Nothing they've done is ever that explicit.


Bias showing. I remember a lot about Leliana's past. Bioware companions on average now have significantly more dialogue than they did in BG2.
Actually it's telling them what they want to hear and making choices they agree with. The gifts are there so you can max out everyone's friendship even if you never take them anywhere or say a few disagreeable things so you can have the option of unlocking their personal quests.

Bias? Why can't you be the one with the bias showing? Right, you're a protected class; we're all the moral equivalent of guilty till proven innocent.

BG2: You can reject the advances at their first blush with zero implications down the road other than not getting to know the character as well, i.e. working as intended.

DAO: Rejecting the NPC takes a series of annoying dialogs so poorly written that you can still inadvertently encourage their lust; and the consequences sadly don't include getting them to shut up (MOAR DIALOG), but do include a range of shitty things, not the least of which is you're now stuck with the lesser version of that NPC since only by kissing their ass can you fulfill their destiny.

 

[tuluse]

I didn't mind the romances in KoTOR. In fact I think they fit the story and tone of the game pretty well. I also derive enjoyment from the fact they are contrary to the shitty ass prequel Jedi "philosophy".

I don't think it's showing bias to think that Bioware romances have 1) been increasingly important as gameplay elements and 2) increasingly creepy in their writing.

 

[RK47]

i think they just need to go anime art and sell out.

 

[Data4]

I didn't get past the opening statement. Did we just get trolled?

 

[Roguey]

BG2: You can reject the advances at their first blush with zero implications down the road other than not getting to know the character as well, i.e. working as intended.

I.E. at all because romances are the only way to get to know them. Non-romance companions barely get any dialogue at all in comparison.

DAO: Rejecting the NPC takes a series of annoying dialogs so poorly written that you can still inadvertently encourage their lust; and the consequences sadly don't include getting them to shut up (MOAR DIALOG), but do include a range of shitty things, not the least of which is you're now stuck with the lesser version of that NPC since only by kissing their ass can you fulfill their destiny.

You can get them to shut up either by not talking to them or outright telling them to leave. You don't miss out on anything but different dialogue if you choose to skip them. You can still complete the Flemeth's grimoire, Marjolaine, Crows, and Alistair's sister quests and receive all their benefits regardless for example.

I don't think it's showing bias to think that Bioware romances have 1) been increasingly important as gameplay elements and 2) increasingly creepy in their writing.

Companion interaction as a whole has been getting more attention, but romance isn't all that important. I don't see how it's any more creepy than it was before except now you can see it, and that has nothing to do with writing.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I have never seen Roguey be more right on anything during my time on this board. BG2 romances had all of Bioware's failings in them - goddawful dialogue, relationships defined almost solely by solving someone's daddy issues, embarassingly cliched archetypes that seem targeted solely at those who have never had a relationship in their life. In some ways it's worse than later works, in that many of the romance characters give little opportunity for characterisation outside of the romance dialogue. If I met someone in real life who thought that it even vaguely resembled plausible characters or real relationships, I'd be incredibly creeped out by him/her.

The only saving grace is that NPC relationships are far less important to the game as a whole in BG2, compared to later Bioware games where they become a major selling point. I actually really like BG2 - but I can't pretend that the romance dialogue isn't hideous.

 

[DraQ]

Whether the romances in BG2 were good or not is a bit beside the point - they were effectively genre's firsties, that alone earns them a bit leeway, and they were quite a bit subtler, while also not being exactly game's focus.

 

[Roguey]

Torment did it before and it was stupid there too. As for subtler

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/12164
LD13: 'I've...I've had enough of this life! (sob!) P-perhaps it
would be better if I just went back to the circus.
'But I have, I have (char name)! I just don't have the
strength. I'm so useless...'

LD14: 'I'm such a silly woman. Whining and crying...I must seem so
ridiculous and petty. No man will ever want me I think...I
feel so embarrassed.'


'Oh...I see. Well thank you (char name). Ummm...do you...do you
think I'm beautiful? I mean do you feel all these things
about me?'

LD20: 'My love...? I...I know that you are tired from the day's travels and
that you wish to rest. I...wish to ask you something...before you
retire to your blankets...'


'I...I will show you my body (char name)...and I hope it pleases you.
Would you...would you stay with me this night (char name)? Will you
show me what true love consists of?'

'Stay with me for the night then (char name) and hold me to you.
I...don't want to be alone, and I so desperately need to be near
you.'
LD19: 'I was so eager to experience everything new that I...I did not
think. Thank you for respecting me. I...I love you and I want our
first time to be something special.'

 

[Infinitron]

Pretty much. BG2 vs Dragon Age romance is like FO2 vs Witcher sex.

 

[Lord Andre]

Best romance in BG2 was with Nalia, by far.

 

[sea]

Best romance in BG2 was with Nalia, by far.

DU, can we get a nega-brofist option? Please?

Baldur's Gate 2 romances don't deserve "praise" for being the "first." Saying that one of them is better than the others really just misses the point that a) it kickstarted a horrible trend in RPGs that still haunts us today, and b) they were still messed up and terrible.

 

[Lord Andre]

Best romance in BG2 was with Nalia, by far.

DU, can we get a nega-brofist option? Please?

Baldur's Gate 2 romances don't deserve "praise" for being the "first." Saying that one of them is better than the others really just misses the point that a) it kickstarted a horrible trend in RPGs that still haunts us today, and b) they were still messed up and terrible.

I think you are missing the joke. Nalia refuses your advances from the get go.

 

[sea]

God dammit, I was getting her mixed up with Aerie wasn't I? Haven't played BG2 in years.

 

[abnaxus]

Whether the romances in BG2 were good or not is a bit beside the point - they were effectively genre's firsties, that alone earns them a bit leeway, and they were quite a bit subtler, while also not being exactly game's focus.

 

[Delterius]

Companion interaction as a whole has been getting more attention, but romance isn't all that important.

And you interact with them either as "companion" or as a love interest. Therefore, romance is important. At the BSN, one thread about one hypothetical love interest has more posts than the entire gameplay subforum.

 

[DraQ]

DU, can we get a nega-brofist option? Please?

Baldur's Gate 2 romances don't deserve "praise" for being the "first."

(...)

b) they were still messed up and terrible.

Not praise.
Leeway.
First attempts are often quite horrible, but they are also the most difficult.

Besides a sizable proportion of 'dex would give their fucking lives* defending many *very* horrible first attempts at doing stuff that just stuck and became the norm - combat XP, level mechanics, HPs, RT blobbers, etc.

a) it kickstarted a horrible trend in RPGs that still haunts us today, and

That's hindsight. Intra-party relationship are a neat little facet you can put on an RPG (and pretty much the only thing that was actually good in BG1), so expanding them to include romance, that are going to happen pretty naturally in a tightly-knit, mixed-sex group of people getting in and out of danger together.

Then landwhales, but you couldn't have really expected landwhales until they came.


*)

 

[DeepOcean]

Bioware games:

BG 2: Main villain become sad after his elf queen lover say that he has a small penis, because of this he develop a huge inferiority complex and want to show how big his penis is by become a god he will have a god penis.
Neverwinter Nights: One of the main villains decides to become super evil and kill the human race because the city of Neverwinter decided to kill her lover so her vagina is too lonely, everybody knows how a lonely vagina is dangerous.
KOTOR: One of the most powerful jedi goes to the dark side, but on the end your love and nice words can cure her.
Jade Empire: I couldn't play this shit for more than 30 min, so I don't know.
Dragon Age: The bard chick say fuck me hero! The evil witch chick say fuck me hero! The gay elf say fuck me hero! Threesomes for everyone, dwarves included!
Mass Effect series: After killing thousand of identical looking enemies on copy/pasted brow and sometimes blue futuristic industrial complexes ... I can't wait to return to my waifus so they can say things full of personality and intelligence like: I totally love you shepard, I love you forever shepard, you are the man of my life, how I could live without you, you healed the wounds on my female heart, do you want to start a poorly animated sex scene right now Shepard?
DA 2: Didn't played this shit but watched some walkthroughs,boy, Hawk life must be difficult avoiding all those people who want to gang rape him.

When you look to this track record above even juvenile shit like the cards on Witcher 1 looks acceptable.

 

[Drakron]

Leeway.
First attempts are often quite horrible, but they are also the most difficult.

They were at least trying, not filling a checklist and as I will excuse NWN from the fact that game been so fucked up that part was just one of the game many problems it was clear at Jade Empire it was checklist.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Bioware games:

BG 2: Main villain become sad after his elf queen lover say that he has a small penis, because of this he develop a huge inferiority complex and want to show how big his penis is by become a god he will have a god penis.
Neverwinter Nights: One of the main villains decides to become super evil and kill the human race because the city of Neverwinter decided to kill her lover so her vagina is too lonely, everybody knows how a lonely vagina is dangerous.
KOTOR: One of the most powerful jedi goes to the dark side, but on the end your love and nice words can cure her.
Jade Empire: I couldn't play this shit for more than 30 min, so I don't know.
Dragon Age: The bard chick say fuck me hero! The evil witch chick say fuck me hero! The gay elf say fuck me hero! Threesomes for everyone, dwarves included!
Mass Effect series: After killing thousand of identical looking enemies on copy/pasted brow and sometimes blue futuristic industrial complexes ... I can't wait to return to my waifus so they can say things full of personality and intelligence like: I totally love you shepard, I love you forever shepard, you are the man of my life, how I could live without you, you healed the wounds on my female heart, do you want to start a poorly animated sex scene right now Shepard?
DA 2: Didn't played this shit but watched some walkthroughs,boy, Hawk life must be difficult avoiding all those people who want to gang rape him.

When you look to this track record above even juvenile shit like the cards on Witcher 1 looks acceptable.

All that fuckery just makes me wan´t to replay them all.

 

[DeepOcean]

Bioware games:

BG 2: Main villain become sad after his elf queen lover say that he has a small penis, because of this he develop a huge inferiority complex and want to show how big his penis is by become a god he will have a god penis.
Neverwinter Nights: One of the main villains decides to become super evil and kill the human race because the city of Neverwinter decided to kill her lover so her vagina is too lonely, everybody knows how a lonely vagina is dangerous.
KOTOR: One of the most powerful jedi goes to the dark side, but on the end your love and nice words can cure her.
Jade Empire: I couldn't play this shit for more than 30 min, so I don't know.
Dragon Age: The bard chick say fuck me hero! The evil witch chick say fuck me hero! The gay elf say fuck me hero! Threesomes for everyone, dwarves included!
Mass Effect series: After killing thousand of identical looking enemies on copy/pasted brow and sometimes blue futuristic industrial complexes ... I can't wait to return to my waifus so they can say things full of personality and intelligence like: I totally love you shepard, I love you forever shepard, you are the man of my life, how I could live without you, you healed the wounds on my female heart, do you want to start a poorly animated sex scene right now Shepard?
DA 2: Didn't played this shit but watched some walkthroughs,boy, Hawk life must be difficult avoiding all those people who want to gang rape him.

When you look to this track record above even juvenile shit like the cards on Witcher 1 looks acceptable.

All that fuckery just makes me wan´t to replay them all.

You are going to use them as masturbatory material? If , yes, I recommend making a dwarf.

 

[Kem0sabe]

You are going to use them as masturbatory material? If , yes, I recommend making a dwarf.

I reserve masturbation only for real porn enjoyment, and the occasional Lolicon... i need rpg romances for the emotional attachment.

 

[Roguey]

Companion interaction as a whole has been getting more attention, but romance isn't all that important.

And you interact with them either as "companion" or as a love interest. Therefore, romance is important. At the BSN, one thread about one hypothetical love interest has more posts than the entire gameplay subforum.

As far as gameplay goes, they're not important. You can skip all of them and feel like you're missing nothing.