Dragon Age Dragon Age: Origins is ten years old today

[The Jester]

I know 2009 was a very dead year for crpgs but there was zero reason to pick this over KotC or even Risen.

the world wasn't ready for turn hot stinky garbage, thankfully we now have bg3 (tb dragon age)

i hate proper D&D

sad!

Please tell us more about the intense homoeroticism in your "Proper D&D" sessions.

 

[Delterius]

Please tell us more about the intense homoeroticisms in your "Proper D&D" sessions.

i'm ok with sex, and lesbians too i might add. let the leftards be sex negative, i say.

 

[Mauman]

I'm also a 2E connoisseur.

oh yeah the crpgs where you 1) pick class 2) pick weapon theres your build voilá congratulations thereyago you'vedunit the game is over now now thats proper D&D compared to 5E where you coincidentially do the same thing

Have you actually ever played 2E? I mean actual tabletop. Not BG.

It's a bit more complicated than that

 

[Delterius]

I mean actual tabletop.

ew i only play proper D&D without friends tyvm

now return to the gazebo before i bring out the holy relics at yet, demon of socialization

 

[Mauman]

I mean actual tabletop.

ew i only play proper D&D without friends tyvm

now return to the gazebo before i bring out the holy relics at yet, demon of socialization

Well, at least you recognize your ignorance. Even if in a roundabout way.

 

[Delterius]

Well, at least you recognize your ignorance. Even if in a roundabout way.

now explain the relevance of tabletop rpgs for CRPGs besides serving as inspiration thats right you can't because CRPGs kinda suck that way

 

[Mauman]

Well, at least you recognize your ignorance. Even if in a roundabout way.

now explain the relevance of tabletop rpgs for CRPGs besides serving as inspiration thats right you can't because CRPGs kinda suck that way

Sure. So, by that logic then BG3 is shit no matter what.

I agree.

Regardless, this is a Dragon Age topic. I think I'll stop engaging this level of stupidity. It's fun to engage the retarded occasionally, so thanks for that. :D

 

[The Jester]

Please tell us more about the intense homoeroticisms in your "Proper D&D" sessions.

let the leftards be sex negative, i say.

But leftards aren't? look around you sex is everywhere in media.

 

[Delterius]

Please tell us more about the intense homoeroticisms in your "Proper D&D" sessions.

let the leftards be sex negative, i say.

But leftards aren't? look around you sex is everywhere in media.

i see you joined us at 2020 so you are a mere baby

things leftards hate: sex, women, hot women, women having sex, and also sex. we learned the truth back in gamergate. i can send you seventeen thousand hours of youtube essays if you wanna get started on our theory. conversatives like us wanna go against government control so we are pro sex.

 

[Delterius]

Sure. So, by that logic CRPGs are shit

nah i disagree some are pretty good like skyrim and neverwinter nights

 

[The Bishop]

If you want to bash Dragon Age: Oriigins then compare it with RPGs of 2009, when it released. Things will be a bit clearer why it became so popular so well recieved

I might have agreed with you a year ago, but now with BG3 trying very hard to look and feel like DAO and hitting it out of the park in term of sales and popularity, there's really no doubt that DAO formula has a huge mass appeal. It had back in 2009 and still has it almost 15 years after. Bioware had a recipe for success on their hands all these years. Yet they spent that time trying to make their buttons ever so more awesomer, telling everyone to fuck off cause they know better.

 

[9ted6]

If you want to bash Dragon Age: Oriigins then compare it with RPGs of 2009, when it released. Things will be a bit clearer why it became so popular so well recieved

I might have agreed with you a year ago, but now with BG3 trying very hard to look and feel like DAO and hitting it out of the park in term of sales and popularity, there's really no doubt that DAO formula has a huge mass appeal. It had back in 2009 and still has it almost 15 years after. Bioware had a recipe for success on their hands all these years. Yet they spent that time trying to make their buttons ever so more awesomer, telling everyone to fuck off cause they know better.

That success now came at the cost of making the whole game a half-porno directed entirely at reddit and twitter. Dumbed down writing, dumbed down gameplay, too much horny shit in place of character development.

BG3's comparable to DA2 which was pretty unsuccessful then, it just depends on the climate. Guys like Angry Joe then were calling out the forced gay writing and Marvel writing back then, where they shower them with praise today. When DA2 came out Fenris the anime fag-elf was a joke, now BG3's anime fag-elves are hugely popular.

 

[The Bishop]

That success now came at the cost of making the whole game a half-porno directed entirely at reddit and twitter. Dumbed down writing, dumbed down gameplay, too much horny shit in place of character development.

My comment was explicitly about popularity and mass appeal, not quality.

BG3's comparable to DA2 which was pretty unsuccessful then, it just depends on the climate. Guys like Angry Joe then were calling out the forced gay writing and Marvel writing back then, where they shower them with praise today. When DA2 came out Fenris the anime fag-elf was a joke, now BG3's anime fag-elves are hugely popular.

DA2 isn't really a fair comparison simply because it's not the same type of game. It's more of a slasher bastardization of Mass Effect, and a pretty awful one at that. It's a shit game that was so bad not even EA marketing could make up for it. I can't imagine a climate in which it would be successful, except perhaps a post-apocalyptic scenario in which it's the only game left to play.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

If you want to bash Dragon Age: Oriigins then compare it with RPGs of 2009, when it released. Things will be a bit clearer why it became so popular so well recieved

I might have agreed with you a year ago, but now with BG3 trying very hard to look and feel like DAO and hitting it out of the park in term of sales and popularity, there's really no doubt that DAO formula has a huge mass appeal. It had back in 2009 and still has it almost 15 years after. Bioware had a recipe for success on their hands all these years. Yet they spent that time trying to make their buttons ever so more awesomer, telling everyone to fuck off cause they know better.

That success now came at the cost of making the whole game a half-porno directed entirely at reddit and twitter. Dumbed down writing, dumbed down gameplay, too much horny shit in place of character development.

BG3's comparable to DA2 which was pretty unsuccessful then, it just depends on the climate. Guys like Angry Joe then were calling out the forced gay writing and Marvel writing back then, where they shower them with praise today. When DA2 came out Fenris the anime fag-elf was a joke, now BG3's anime fag-elves are hugely popular.

Fag elves have been a staple in fantasy since Tolkien, it's the chick magnet thing. DAO already had Zevran.

 

[Grunker]

I'm also a 2E connoseiur

disgusting

I'm also a 2E connoisseur.

oh yeah the crpgs where you 1) pick class 2) pick weapon theres your build voilá congratulations thereyago you'vedunit the game is over now now thats proper D&D compared to 5E where you coincidentially do the same thing

Have you actually ever played 2E? I mean actual tabletop. Not BG.

It's a bit more complicated than that

i have. since 1996 and 10 years forward. Delterius’ description is exactly right

 

[Sacibengala]

Everyone knows that 1E is the supreme edition and everything that came after was degenerate corporate interests.

 

[Camel]

I might have agreed with you a year ago, but now with BG3 trying very hard to look and feel like DAO and hitting it out of the park in term of sales and popularity, there's really no doubt that DAO formula has a huge mass appeal. It had back in 2009 and still has it almost 15 years after. Bioware had a recipe for success on their hands all these years. Yet they spent that time trying to make their buttons ever so more awesomer, telling everyone to fuck off cause they know better.

Right and instead of capitalizing on the success and popularity of DA:O Bioware started making failed experiments like DA2 and Anthem and entered a downward spiral. Many Bioware fans begged the studio just to make DA:O sequels, bigger and better, with better combat and graphics.

 

[Lacrymas]

There was quite a lot of wrong with DA:O's combat. RTwP didn't help, let me tell you. I think my specific issues with it were that rogues and warriors were essentially the same class and mages were shockingly overpowered compared to them. The specializations (especially warrior and rogue ones) often ended up being just numerical bonuses or auras and there were obvious best specs for both warriors and rogues. Mages had more leeway and the majority of their specializations were actually useful to some degree (except the shapeshifting one, which was awful and probably the worst char in the game). Nightmare difficulty wasn't difficult enough too, but that's another issue. I have some ideas on how to fix all these issues, especially because it's only 3 classes and it's not hard to come up with ways to not only differentiate between them, but also between builds of the same class. I'm sure Bioware would've done something about it had they continued with this combat system, though.

 

[sebas]

I might have agreed with you a year ago, but now with BG3 trying very hard to look and feel like DAO and hitting it out of the park in term of sales and popularity, there's really no doubt that DAO formula has a huge mass appeal. It had back in 2009 and still has it almost 15 years after. Bioware had a recipe for success on their hands all these years. Yet they spent that time trying to make their buttons ever so more awesomer, telling everyone to fuck off cause they know better.

Right and instead of capitalizing on the success and popularity of DA:O Bioware started making failed experiments like DA2 and Anthem and entered a downward spiral. Many Bioware fans begged the studio just to make DA:O sequels, bigger and better, with better combat and graphics

In BioWare's case you can certainly put this on pressure from EA. They bought BioWare in 2007 so ME and DAO were the last non-EA interfered games launched. Every subsequent game screams of shareholders looking for additional revenue: console rpg, social media game, mmo, multiplayer shooter.

 

[Camel]

There was quite a lot of wrong with DA:O's combat. RTwP didn't help, let me tell you.

DA:O combat is a singleplayer MMO-style combat, which was a monumentally stupid decision. Combat being bad has nothing to do with RTwP.

I think my specific issues with it were that rogues and warriors were essentially the same class and mages were shockingly overpowered compared to them.

Correct.

Nightmare difficulty wasn't difficult enough too, but that's another issue.

Nightmare was easy but Bioware fans/biodrones complained on the BSN about combat being hard and the devs made it easier.

In BioWare's case you can certainly put this on pressure from EA. They bought BioWare in 2007 so ME and DAO were the last non-EA interfered games launched. Every subsequent game screams of shareholders looking for additional revenue: console rpg, social media game, mmo, multiplayer shooter.

We're already past the case of blaming EA. Bioware included flying suits in Anthem only after being pressured by an EA exec.

 

[Delterius]

We're already past the case of blaming EA. Bioware included flying suits in Anthem only after being pressured by an EA exec.

It wasn't wrong, per se, to blame 'the suits at EA', but I think we did so in a naive fashion. BioWare as a culture believed that their games were going to become overtly expensive operettas and that they had to desperately market their way into disproportionate success not only so that they could pay for themselves, but also to justify BioWare as an investment. It's not just about FIFA. Think Konami realizing there's much more money in becoming a cassino company than indulging Kojima's lunacy and you have an idea of what's at stake here.

Those were the belief studio wide and frankly, I don't blame them for thinking that. I think we all did on some level. We ourselves used to talk about how RPGs are a niche genre and that devs can do well within their given niche. We never considered that a turn based RPG would become a mainstream success. Sure, people would point out that DA:O was the best seller at the time, but DA:O was already a 'compromise' between the imagined 'grognard' and 'mainstream dunce' audiences. It wasn't a bad bet to believe that the very dichotomy that fueled BioWare's marketing was false. But BG3 just came out. It took more than 10 years for BioWare to be proven fully incorrect. And given how Larian runs at any point Sven could have died chocking on a dutch croquette and we wouldn't have had the catharsis of seeing Dragon Age: Origins Turn Based Edition with Skill Checks In Your Face take over the world.

Where EA comes in is that the publisher didn't actually have to do a Great Purge. People like Brent Knowles would eventually leave BioWare behind because they felt that the studio wouldn't make the things they wanted to make. But ultimately the interactions between EA and BioWare is that of humans, humans who talk to each other about sincerely held beliefs on what is good and what is viable. Those beliefs can be stupid, they can be out of touch, but again it took BioWare shifting genres for 10 years until they got proven wrong by an european vaporware studio. Those beliefs were the hegemonic culture of the time and even if EA had a 0 interference policy with BioWare they were still setting deadlines. Which means that EA's culture would seep down into BioWare regardless. The only thing between the two parties is a studio head that may or may not pushback and how many resources are spent here and how much time is given there, but no matter how much they can pushback this year, the overton window of expectations will keep slowly moving towards the stronger party - the publisher.

 

[9ted6]

I might have agreed with you a year ago, but now with BG3 trying very hard to look and feel like DAO and hitting it out of the park in term of sales and popularity, there's really no doubt that DAO formula has a huge mass appeal. It had back in 2009 and still has it almost 15 years after. Bioware had a recipe for success on their hands all these years. Yet they spent that time trying to make their buttons ever so more awesomer, telling everyone to fuck off cause they know better.

Right and instead of capitalizing on the success and popularity of DA:O Bioware started making failed experiments like DA2 and Anthem and entered a downward spiral. Many Bioware fans begged the studio just to make DA:O sequels, bigger and better, with better combat and graphics.

I've read that a big part of why DAO was good was because one of its directors kept the team in check. Gaider wanted it to be all about mages and templars like DAI, but the director didn't want that and made the darkspawn important instead. Things like that.

He left after DAO and didn't work on 2, so that's probably why it went off the rails so quick. Nobody was around to reign in Gaider's figurative and literal faggotry and the team that replaced Gaider was even worse.

 

[Delterius]

Gaider wanted it to be all about mages and templars like DAI

wut. the mages vs templar thing is solved a third of the way in. whatever you read was retarded. it's true that gaider did not originally come up with darkspawn. what happened was that ohlen just asked gaider to create some horde of mindless things you can kill.

 

[scytheavatar]

We're already past the case of blaming EA. Bioware included flying suits in Anthem only after being pressured by an EA exec.

It wasn't wrong, per se, to blame 'the suits at EA', but I think we did so in a naive fashion. BioWare as a culture believed that their games were going to become overtly expensive operettas and that they had to desperately market their way into disproportionate success not only so that they could pay for themselves, but also to justify BioWare as an investment. It's not just about FIFA. Think Konami realizing there's much more money in becoming a cassino company than indulging Kojima's lunacy and you have an idea of what's at stake here.

Those were the belief studio wide and frankly, I don't blame them for thinking that. I think we all did on some level. We ourselves used to talk about how RPGs are a niche genre and that devs can do well within their given niche. We never considered that a turn based RPG would become a mainstream success. Sure, people would point out that DA:O was the best seller at the time, but DA:O was already a 'compromise' between the imagined 'grognard' and 'mainstream dunce' audiences. It wasn't a bad bet to believe that the very dichotomy that fueled BioWare's marketing was false. But BG3 just came out. It took more than 10 years for BioWare to be proven fully incorrect. And given how Larian runs at any point Sven could have died chocking on a dutch croquette and we wouldn't have had the catharsis of seeing Dragon Age: Origins Turn Based Edition with Skill Checks In Your Face take over the world.

Where EA comes in is that the publisher didn't actually have to do a Great Purge. People like Brent Knowles would eventually leave BioWare behind because they felt that the studio wouldn't make the things they wanted to make. But ultimately the interactions between EA and BioWare is that of humans, humans who talk to each other about sincerely held beliefs on what is good and what is viable. Those beliefs can be stupid, they can be out of touch, but again it took BioWare shifting genres for 10 years until they got proven wrong by an european vaporware studio. Those beliefs were the hegemonic culture of the time and even if EA had a 0 interference policy with BioWare they were still setting deadlines. Which means that EA's culture would seep down into BioWare regardless. The only thing between the two parties is a studio head that may or may not pushback and how many resources are spent here and how much time is given there, but no matter how much they can pushback this year, the overton window of expectations will keep slowly moving towards the stronger party - the publisher.

Pokemon already proved that a turn based RPG can become a mainstream success so...........

 

[scytheavatar]

There was quite a lot of wrong with DA:O's combat. RTwP didn't help, let me tell you. I think my specific issues with it were that rogues and warriors were essentially the same class and mages were shockingly overpowered compared to them. The specializations (especially warrior and rogue ones) often ended up being just numerical bonuses or auras and there were obvious best specs for both warriors and rogues. Mages had more leeway and the majority of their specializations were actually useful to some degree (except the shapeshifting one, which was awful and probably the worst char in the game). Nightmare difficulty wasn't difficult enough too, but that's another issue. I have some ideas on how to fix all these issues, especially because it's only 3 classes and it's not hard to come up with ways to not only differentiate between them, but also between builds of the same class. I'm sure Bioware would've done something about it had they continued with this combat system, though.

Yet DAO is still RTWP at its peak. Could it be better? Of course. But could it be way better? The answer to that is probably no. RTWP had already reached the limits as to how you can scale it to be interesting and fun. So Bioware wasn't wrong in thinking they need to move beyond RTWP, their mistake was trying to turn their games into action games.