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Durrr, Jagged Alliance 2 combat is HARD

Severian Silk

Guest
Balor said:
Did you actually play it?
Paid for, but never installed. Bought and never installed BG2, too.

I'll install them eventually, though. I've liked RTwP in certain space games, but felt it was kind of "meh" in Freedom Force. Having to time pauses so that they occur exactly between two movement animations is tedious, and feels like a (crappy) game in and of itself.
 

Azael

Magister
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
4,405
Location
Multikult Central South
Wasteland 2
Higher Game said:
No way. Reaper's the obnoxiously cocky guy, thinking that fate itself shines its bountiful glory solely upon him. The coolest super merc is Gus, no question about it. Magic's also fun to have.

Personally, I prefer Stoogie, assuming you use the 1.13 mod. He's more badass and doesn't call me "Woody" all the time.
 

okashii

Novice
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
24
mmmm JA2 great game, great memories

I recently got my hands on JA2 Wildfire and I was having a great time: game looked great, I had a Colt Commando at the start, Beretta 92F cheap shots spam was cool, great sounds...and now the game constantly crashes >_<

Back to the drawing board...

Im downloading 1.13
 

okashii

Novice
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
24
from what I know Wildfire doesnt even have any official patches :P

the worst part is that the game will crash at the same moment for an unknown reason even if you load a recent save game and you are left with using an older one + hope the game wont crash when you pick a different route, its just silly and killed the fun and the whole point for me

maybe 1.13 will be more stable

on the topic of favourite mercenaries:

I always liked Nails =] I know he is not the best but he always reminded me of Snake Plissken from the "Escape from New York" movie
 

The_scorpion

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
1,056
Thor Kaufman said:
ya WF is unplayable without patches and even then it crashes comparably often

WF5 and WF6 are different things. WF6 is actally playable after patching, WF5.. :?

either way, if stuff from WF doesn't work, you can still take it out and use it with a more stable exe (this is as far as custom files are concerned)
 

Zhuangzi

Scholar
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
307
Thor Kaufman said:
ya WF is unplayable without patches and even then it crashes comparably often

This guy is pretty useful too, even if he does have a gay sounding voice. :P

And who can go past Steroid? He loves Grizzly so much that when Grizzly dies, he says something like 'This man Grizzly was larger than life to me.' Classc.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
I like JA2 in that you don't have to move in a turn based way when you are not in combat.

That can be a pain sometimes though, especially when you drop out of combat because of losing sight of enemies, and before you can even coordinate your men, you find yourself in another encounter. JA2 would benefit greatly from a proper pause function where you could still look around the map and issue orders to your mercs.

Mike is placed in the gameworld somewhat random.

I've played the game several times over the years before, and I just found out about that.

Strangely, I also ran into a bug. After I captured the first SAM site in the middle, I get two Deirdranna scenes, one about people turning against her, and the other about the SAM site. After the two scenes, the mercs inside the central building were teleported to outside, buildings in the sector suddently became unexplored and all the items on the ground disappeared.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
Do the recent WF versions/patches work with the boxed version that was sold here in the US in stores?
 

The_scorpion

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
1,056
you usually get one "free turn" after an encounter is over that can be used exactly for that. undeliberately losing track of enemies is almost impossible that way.

Yup, the Mike thing is often puzzling because if you play ja2 always the same way (order of towns, etc.) you'll often encounter him at the same site. There are a load of NPC's that are placed somwhat random, but Mike works slightly different.

it's a replayability thing because he may offer quite a new challenge to a map that you usually steamroll over. (sorry for bad english)


assnuggest

WF6 doesn't work with WF5, they're not compatible, at least not out-of the box.

Wf5 was sold in english for sure, together with ja2 Gold, Wf6 has an english version by now as well (?)

Most likely, the version you refer to is WF5 while recent versions and patches are for WF6.

I never bothered trying, but technicall it could work to use exe and part of the files from WF6 to make WF5 a lot less buggy. However, the wf6 exe i have is german while the wf5 contents i have are english, so i'd get a mix of languages. Also not sure if everything would match. hmmm.
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Assnuggets said:
Balor said:
Did you actually play it?
Paid for, but never installed. Bought and never installed BG2, too.

I'll install them eventually, though. I've liked RTwP in certain space games, but felt it was kind of "meh" in Freedom Force. Having to time pauses so that they occur exactly between two movement animations is tedious, and feels like a (crappy) game in and of itself.

The best thing about SPM you don't HAVE to TIME pauses - they occur automatically when something that should require you attention pops up - like you character running out of orders (you can stack them and make orders like 'shoot that guy in the head till he drops dead, btw), new enemy appearing, being shot at, grenade thrown, etc.
And this is configurable. In a perfect situation, you neither have to pause nor unpause the game - you issue orders, orders get completed, you issue new ones - game automatically resumes.

Of course, in a full-scale combat things can get hectic, but it's just a matter of how much micromanagement you can take.
I perfectly remember how much of a chore was to command a full squad of mercs in Ja2, if they were fighting in separate areas against lots of enemies... less so then in E5/7.62, but still... and you have to add waiting for enemies walking around and firing in sequence, which on a slower computers were absolutely horrible for large battles - especially when militia was around!

In E5, you can just queue orders and don't touch control until they get completed... thus emulating TB with it's exciting, and much loved by VD, minigame - AP management!

The game itself is suffered by lack of budget and inexperience of developers, of course, but combat system is by far the most realistic AND quite manageble and the same time - which is a no small feat.
 

Annonchinil

Scholar
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
844
All right any advice on begenning a game, especially what mercenaries to purchase for the 1st mission?
 

Mr. Wednesday

Scholar
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
137
MisterStone said:
My dream game is now either a remake of Wasteland (not an exact remake, I mean with a more detailed game world and better implemented quests) with JA2 combat. Just imagine taking out a scorpotron... :cool:

The next closest in coolness would be a western gunslinger game with JA2 combat.

Or Fallout 1/2 with JA2 combat.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
MisterStone said:
My dream game is now either a remake of Wasteland (not an exact remake, I mean with a more detailed game world and better implemented quests) with JA2 combat. Just imagine taking out a scorpotron... :cool:
Hmmm... I've been looking for an excuse to start messing with the 1.13 source code. This might just be what I was looking for.

Of course, I would simply do a straight conversion. Oh, and I'd also need a way of extracting the game data from WL.
 

Zhuangzi

Scholar
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
307
Annonchinil said:
All right any advice on begenning a game, especially what mercenaries to purchase for the 1st mission?

Buns, Barry, Steroid plus IMP merc with maxed Wisdom and high Marksmanship. You can take zero for repair and explosives, and average out the rest.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,450
Achtung, I shall prodice a tl;dr.

Regarding that starting mercs question - depends on who is available at the moment. And, of course depends on difficulty and starting money.
Also, it's okay just to pick up guys whose voiceset you like. Steroid and Barry anno the fuck out of me, so the above combination desn't work for me.

For starting team you need: a medic, a militia trainer, and 2-3 good soldiers. A repairman might be useful, if you have bobby ray's stock set to something else than default, so that you can buy some worthwile used stuff once you hit Drassen.

Ira is available almost from the very start (but she is an annoying type), and can be used as an ok medic and trainer (she has teaching speciality ang get a training bonus as a member of the rebels - her leadership is low in the beginning, but trains very fast.)
When MERC opens up on day 3, you can hire Gasket for all your repair needs (desn't like Russians though), and who also happens to be the only guy out of the bunch worth the money.

You don't have to take Ira nor Gasket, just be mindful that they're available.

As for the guys who'll do actual shooting, you want good health, agility and marksmanship (Good, meaning 80 and above. 70-something is fine, too).
Above average dexterity helps a bit as well.

Personally, I choose out of the following: Buzz (96 MRK, reasonably priced), Len (good trainer), Wolf (can repair stuff), Igor, Stephen
I also like to give Fox a chance - makes a decent medic and is ambidextrous. MRK seems pitifuly low, but actually can be trained quite fast up to 75+, just give her two pistols and use in close quarters.

You don't need lockpics to get past locks. A crowbar will suffice - you need to alternate between kicking the lock and prying it (so that you don't get the annoying Never gonna happen comment from the merc). It's also a great way of training strength.

Later in the game you'll want a demolitions guy (meaning 50 EXP and above), there are a few available quite cheap. BUT, it's really easy to train EXP by setting and recovering mines, so consider training one up yourself. If you have the patience.

You'll also want someone who can handle a heavy weapon. But that usually comes much later.

You can take zero for repair and explosives
That's what most people do, but not necessarily the only nor the best way. You actually lose some points when you set the skill to 0.

IMP creation actually deserves it's own bit:
Remember that in 1.13 you can have more than one IMP merc, so long as you use a different voice and photo for each.
You can also tweak some of the values used in character creation in the .ini file.
You can use this to cheat very easy, but I'll just leave this to your own conscience. Personally, I just like to set the max value for skills to 90 and min to 25. Also, note that you can set the personality for your merc there (some of the settings do nothing though)

The stats:
Remember, that if you set a stat to a low value, it'll be easy to train that in the beginning. It's useful to consider this, if you don't need to have above 60 in something from the very start.

Maxed wisdom is a must. It'll make all the other stats go up faster.

Health - don't be stingy here. It's both useful and hard to train. 70+ recommended. I put as many as I can here.

Agility - you want around 80 here for your IMP (and all mercs), as it affects action points.

Dexterity - I like to have 70, but 60 is fine, too. It helps a tiny bit when aiming, but generally has some effect on Medical and Repair. It's also used in hand to hand combat.

Strength - Can be trained easily. However, if it's too low, you'll get tired more often. If I'm looking for spare points, I usually take a few off here.

Marksmanship - appears to be the most important of the skills, but actually don't fall into the trap of maxing it. Since you'll be shooting all the time most likely, it'll train quite fast on it's own. I go for between 70-80. 85 feels a bit like a waste.

Leadership , Explosives, Medic, Repair - now, the values here depend on what type of guy do you want. It is often advised that you should set all these as low as possible (even to 0), and focus on building a mean fighting machine. It's acceptable, but you'll miss out a few opportunities to make your merc useful (but can be a viable option if you set the option that 0 value skills are trainable).
On the other hand, don't fall into a trap of trying to make your merc useful at everything. Usually, you wont have time to train people, repair AND play doctor, so just pick two and focus on these.

A more conservative approach is to give your merc some Medical skill to use 1st aid. Or give him or her around 50 to make him useful as a full time doctor.
However, as long as you don't stupidly charge headlong and keep two medics in each squad, you might skip this entirely (I do).

Explosives is really easily trained to ridiculously high levels using mines. Also, setting and disraming TNT with radio detonator trains WIS, but requires EXP 80+ to pull off with a reasonable chance of success.

Repair - I actually favor this one instead of Medicine, as it seems to train up Dexterity a bit faster. Also, I am a fan of buying cheap at Bobby Ray's

Leadership - the most noticeable effect is when you train Militia. For best results pair it with teaching skill. Ira can do it for you. And there are a few other mercs who can do it as well, so you don't have to take it. It is also used when training other mercs and apparently in several dialogues (especially when recruiting).
 

The_scorpion

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
1,056
can you for a change give some input not basted on the very lamest tactics and strategies?

buying at BR as the base of everything else you do?
mine detection exploits?

*headdesk*
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Assnuggets said:
MisterStone said:
My dream game is now either a remake of Wasteland (not an exact remake, I mean with a more detailed game world and better implemented quests) with JA2 combat. Just imagine taking out a scorpotron... :cool:
Hmmm... I've been looking for an excuse to start messing with the 1.13 source code. This might just be what I was looking for.

Of course, I would simply do a straight conversion. Oh, and I'd also need a way of extracting the game data from WL.

THere is a project that has already done this, IIRC. I can't find it right this moment, but I'm pretty sure that someone has figured it out already, and may have even hosted original files somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

I'm not sure that a direct conversion would really work, but even if it doesn't work prefectly it would still be pretty cool. :cool:
 

JrK

Prophet
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,764
Location
Speaking to the Sea
One of the things I like to specialize my IMP in is Mechanics. All the other skills (marksman, medic, explosives, leadership) have relatively cheap mercs with high scores in them available for each. The only really good mechanic that is available is Trevor, and he's one of the most expensive guys. By building an IMP with mechanical skills, you can build your team cheap but very effective.

I've got this team which seems to cover the basics well:
-IMP mechanic
-Ira for early medicing, mostly relying on not getting shot at all.
-Raven for two things: good shootin' but mainly her good weapon at the start (m4 in 1.13).
-When you take Drassen, get Raven's husband Raider. High leadership + morale bonus with Raven.

With the exception of Ira, all start with moderately good marksman skills. All of them have a very good wisdom, however, which makes the learning process quick.

Raven and Raider are average in cost, but easily affordable in the beginning of the game, especially if you delay Raider. I suppose you could take guys like Buns or Igor in stead of Raven, but the main drawback would always be having access to pistols only at the start of the game, which is a major drawback. Raven is one of the cheapest mercs with a longer range weapon and my IMP choice means that Raider is a natural pick.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,450
can you for a change give some input not basted on the very lamest tactics and strategies?

No.

And where the fuck did you read that I base everything I do on bobby ray's and mine exploits?

If one doesn't want to dick around with mines (which apart from being an exploit, though untouched by several patches, official and unofficial, takes too much time and patience, so I imagine why one wouldn't), there are guys like Fidel or Red available at low prices. Like I wrote -there are guys available that'll make suff go boom for cheap.

As for Bobby Ray's "exploit", great, what else, non-ironman is an exploit as well? How about Sci-Fi mode? All of those may be changed at the starting menu, co you can (let me spell it out for you) customize the game to suit your style, or adjust teh difficulty a bit.

And I was not even referring to the highest setting for bobby ray, or setting it above standard value. Even in vanilla ja2 one can find good stuff for sale earlier in Bobby Ray's used stuff. Oh wait, I didn't get the memo, is it an exploit now?

*headdesk*
For best results pull it out of your ass first.

JrK said:
The only really good mechanic that is available is Trevor, and he's one of the most expensive guys. By building an IMP with mechanical skills, you can build your team cheap but very effective.

Trevor is convenient, cause he'll also disarm all traps you'll most likely ever need disarmed. However, I don't like the git personally (-:
I don't think you need those 99 MECH that badly, one can make do with lover values - Vicky has comparable price, and has more experience. Steroid makes for an even cheaper aternative, Wolf is somewhere in between, and so is Nails (but he is annoying as fuck, or at least was with the vest business, last time I checked him was in vanilla?)
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
JrK said:
One of the things I like to specialize my IMP in is Mechanics. All the other skills (marksman, medic, explosives, leadership) have relatively cheap mercs with high scores in them available for each. The only really good mechanic that is available is Trevor, and he's one of the most expensive guys. By building an IMP with mechanical skills, you can build your team cheap but very effective.

Well, there is Gasket from MERC. He isn't very good in a fight, but has excellent voice acting... the funniest personality I have come across in the game so far.

I think I made my merc so he has both high mechanics and explosives skill. I figure it would make it easier to keep one guy alive instead of two.
 

JrK

Prophet
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,764
Location
Speaking to the Sea
spectre said:
Trevor is convenient, cause he'll also disarm all traps you'll most likely ever need disarmed. However, I don't like the git personally (-:
I don't think you need those 99 MECH that badly, one can make do with lover values - Vicky has comparable price, and has more experience. Steroid makes for an even cheaper aternative, Wolf is somewhere in between, and so is Nails (but he is annoying as fuck, or at least was with the vest business, last time I checked him was in vanilla?)

Personally I like MECH as high as possible, just take a look at how quickly Trevor fixes stuff. In my games, I like to scavenge, which means lots of repairing required. I don't like your other options: either just too expensive relatively, or not good at all (Steroid is seriously bad at MECH). As for Gasket: I should check him out, never looked at MERC seriously... :cool:
 

Livonya

Augur
Patron
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
296
Location
California
My favorite mercs are the psychos.

They get a bonus with machine guns, and I like to use them with machine guns...

So my favorite team is

Fidel
Haywire
Razor

Once Haywire and Razor get their marksmanship skill up then they become extremely potent mercs. They are great with knives and machine guns.

Another fun team is to have Biff and Flo together with some other wimpy folks. It is just too much fun to listen to Biff and Flo during their adventures.

For some reason I always gravitate towards the same folks.

In my next game I plan on editing out all of the sniper rifles, the mortar, and the rocket rifles.

The best thing about the 1.13 mod is that you can edit so much stuff.

The flexability to create your own unique game play is just wonderful.

- Livonya
 

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