Curratum
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You'd almost expect that 20 years later, with a ton of experience and money, they'd be able to make something mechanically better...
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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM
- Thread starter HoboForEternity
- Start date
You'd almost expect that 20 years later, with a ton of experience and money, they'd be able to make something mechanically better...
Wasn't impressed by the Leyndell boss. Same as Margit except the swings are even MOAR delayed and instead of 6-hit combos he has 10-hit combos. If I had more patience I'd have stuck it out and learned all the timings but at 106 hours I can't be bothered with the spasmic nonsense anymore.
Liked the Godfrey fight tho and Leyndell is one of the best FS levels ever. It's like Ringed City except it's not a full-blown DLC but a small, regular part of the game.
As for burnout, there is some but nothing dramatic. I'm still exploring carefully, doing everything, going everywhere. Only now, except trying to solo bosses no matter what, I give each boss 10 attempts max and if I still can't beat it I just summon my Mimic and get it over with.
Liked the Godfrey fight tho and Leyndell is one of the best FS levels ever. It's like Ringed City except it's not a full-blown DLC but a small, regular part of the game.
As for burnout, there is some but nothing dramatic. I'm still exploring carefully, doing everything, going everywhere. Only now, except trying to solo bosses no matter what, I give each boss 10 attempts max and if I still can't beat it I just summon my Mimic and get it over with.
I just wish one day we will discover the technology that could allow FS to put the super-secret gimmick weapon in a location that's not the boss' arena where you have to use it.
Anonymous Wife Scholar
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NJClaw anon! Good strong Emilia Romagna friend anon! It is not technology matter anon because it is brainlet proofing matter anon! It is! You are a good strong friend anon!
Great Deceiver
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When you first reach the Volcano mansion, an NPC tells you about how he hid the gimmick weapon away in one of the rooms, but I guess From just forgot about that idea... there are a number of things that seem unfinished like this, such as the questline for that barbarian lady in the Roundtable Hold.
Drop Duck
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Are you joking mate? Even back after the first Dark Souls got big you had Lords of the Fallen coming out. If you want one of the most recent examples you have Jedi: Fallen Order, it does add more Metroidvania to the mix, but the Dark Souls influences are obvious. There are some games that does Dark Souls better than Dark Souls like Nioh and Nioh 2. You also have The Surge and its sequel, doing Dark Souls 1:1 but with a science fiction coating.
That's just some of the big ones, every indie dev and his dog wants to make a Souls clone and have been wanting to since the first Dark Souls. All those forgettable indie platformers have incorporated it with their Super Metroid and Castlevania fan worship. Hollow Knight, Salt and Sanctuary, Blasphemous, The Last Faith, Death's Gambit, Dark Devotion and an almost endless supply of games like that.
Even the Chinese are making Dark Souls clones, check out Bloody Spell. Then there are anime Dark Souls, Code Vein. There are more Dark Souls clones around than there were Doom clones in the 90's. From no-budget games like Tyrant's Realm to slightly higher budget like Mortal Shell to Nioh and AAA like Jedi Souls. I even got an indie Dark Souls clone for free on GOG called Hellpoint, you can't escape the Soulslikes. Not to mention upcoming games like Monkey Souls aka Black Myth: Wukong, Bleak Faith: Forsaken, Lies of P, Soulstice, Thymesia, Wuchang: Fallen Feathers and probably a bunch more now that Elden Ring was successful.
When Skyrim was released back in 2011 it made not only huge sales but became a huge video game pop culture phenomenon. It was on top of the list of every game developer but that only influenced what, Breath of the Wild? Meanwhile it's harder to find a new game that isn't trying to be Dark Souls than one that does. We're drowning in Dark Souls and you don't notice it?
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Drop Duck
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If you want to go dumpster diving you could just go through games with the tag on Steam.
https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Souls-like/
https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Souls-like/
I love Nioh but it's sufficiently different I don't really count it as a Souls clone.
Nor do I consider stuff like Salt&Sanctuary or Hollow Knight real Souls clones. I don't like them but people seems to love them, whatever.
Actual Souls clones:
- Lords of the Fallen
- Surge 1, Surge 2
- Ashen
- Code Vein
- Darksiders 3
- Mortal Shell
- Hellpoint
- Wukong
- Pascal's Wager
Vaguely Souls-adjacent: Nioh 1/2, Remnant, Jedi, God of War, Chronos. The nuAssCreed and TW3 combat is also clearly influenced by DS.
Lords of the faggots is the only game in this list that seems even remotely soulslike (it's also a piece of shit). Yes, those games have some souls influences but that doesn't make them souls clones, the doom clones of old were actual doom clones.
Nioh's combat system and level design is so far removed from Dark Souls that it should never be mentioned in the same sentence. Nioh is a souls like because of what, exactly, because you drop something when you die and can get back to it ? that's it? If I added an experience drop mechanism to death to Devil May Cry that you could regain if you survived till you found your experience drop point would DMC become a souls like? fuck off. (note, it's not a judgement against Nioh, not being like souls games doesn't make it a bad game)
The Surge is DS 1:1 ? you mean the game that has like 5 bosses for the whole game? whose combat mechanics are about targeting enemy parts and with an even worse level of repetitiveness of encounters than Elden Ring, with every trash encounters taking longer than it feels it should because enemies are tanky as hell? Shit I complained a lot about Elden Ring but the diversity of enemy types and bosses is such it makes itself look like a joy to play compared to the monotony of this piece of eurotrash.
I haven't played most of these, but Hollow Knight I did in full and there is nothing soulslike about it apart from exceedingly superficial elements that don't even matter (it's hard to feel concerned for money in HK the way you feel concerned for a large amount of souls in a DS).
The game doesn't even have a stamina system. Jesus christ.
Finally, you mention one game that is really souslike, for all its faults, Code Vein does play like a souls game.
It's undeniable that in pop culture DS has some sort of influence but we're not exactly drowning in souls clones. We just see superficial elements being taken in like in all the garbage indie 2d games you mention.
The Decline
Arcane
Salt & Sanctuary is Dark Souls in 2D form.
Drop Duck
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Skyrim was highly influential in this regard but it was also a part of a larger trend with Ubisoft and a lot of other developers going in the same direction. Dragon's Dogma was also open-world and it came out just the year after Skyrim, that wasn't selling as much however. With the amount of ports Skyrim has gotten, the number of sales and the importance in the cultural landscape it should be considered the flagship of open-world games. There are barely any games that copy the distinct Bethesda way of doing things however. Even Breath of the Wild, whose developers were on record of being impressed with Skyrim and wanted to do something similar, go in very different directions in a lot of places.
It abides by the formula established, that it puts its own spin on that doesn't mean it's not highly derivative. Would you disagree that without Dark Souls we wouldn't have Nioh?
I don't see the lineage there at all.
SumDrunkGuy
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Why is my soul count lower after I recover them? I had 10k and after I picked them back up it was 5k. Wtf?
perfectslumbers
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Are you in Stormveil?
Cromwell
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which is? Repeatable levels to find diablo like loot? A fast combat system with multiple usable weapons and a skilltree for the category of weapons?
SumDrunkGuy
Guest
Then it's your fault for not killing anything that moves OR speaks, especially if it's ugly. Just be assured: it's not a bug.
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/spoiler]
Drop Duck
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Your definition of clone is different from mine. It's enough that they ape enough elements. They got the slow animations, the way stamina works, the rolls, the general design and so forth. If you're some kind of FromSoft aficionado you might not think that Mortal Shell for example qualifies as a clone, it has a hardening mechanic and some of the design is slightly different. But viewed from a distance these differences are small compared to how similar they are. It doesn't matter if the bosses aren't exactly the same or the level design is inferior. We are talking about the general formula here, not details.
Have we really reached a point where people don't remember what action games and ARPGs were like before the Souls bomb dropped?
Silva
Arcane
Dark Souls influence over the industry is undeniable, from pure Souls Clones to "Souls Likes" and "Souls inspired", games, it's everywhere from AAA to indies and everything in the middle. Let's just hope ER doesn't have the same effect. Or, at least not it's bad elements.
Cromwell
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that doesnt answer the question what exactly makes nioh like souls.
There are a few common features - "bonfires", you drop your "souls" after death and you lose them if you die again before picking them up, stamina-based combat, signs on the ground, FS-like level design (more prominent in Nioh 2). But it's WAY more different than same.
Drop Duck
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If you have played both Dark Souls and Nioh the similarities are so obvious that I shouldn't need to have to explain them.
Cromwell
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yeah. of course.
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