[Endgame Spoilers] Eothas, Magran and The Queen That Was

[Maculo]

My take on it is that Eothas decided to rebel against the entire pantheon system that Thaos created. What kept people in place was fear of the gods like Woedica and the concept that the gods were immortal. By allowing himself to die to the Godhammer, he wrecked the concept of the gods as invincible beings and reinforced the power of science/animancy in the world.

Thaos' system depended on people being afraid of invincible all-knowing beings. That system no longer makes sense if a god got "tricked" into a trap and killed by a man-made bomb.

 

[Tigranes]

We still don't know for sure if Eothas is dead, though that would indeed be my bet. I wouldn't be surprised if there was something more complex going on with the godhammer. It's a terrible waste to just let a god and all its soul essence die, right? And how does the godhammer itself work?

But yes, it's notable that people are forced to attend more to the immediate crisis of the Legacy than try and confront the possibility that men were able to fell a God.

 

[Rostere]

My take on it is that Eothas decided to rebel against the entire pantheon system that Thaos created. What kept people in place was fear of the gods like Woedica and the concept that the gods were immortal. By allowing himself to die to the Godhammer, he wrecked the concept of the gods as invincible beings and reinforced the power of power/animancy in the world.

Thaos' system depended on people being afraid of invincible all-knowing beings. That system no longer makes sense if a god got "tricked" into a trap and killed by a man-made bomb.

Which is another reason for the gods to actually approve of Thaos instigating Waidwen's Legacy.

I think they were pretty strict on not risking to spread the knowledge of the Godhammer though. Remember that Magran killed all the other people who helped make the Godhammer, except for Durance. It is implied heavily in your conversations with Durance that the Godhammer was made using knowledge of animancy, and not (at least not just) blackpowder. Why exactly Durance survived I don't think is made clear in the game, I think it might have to do with some of the cut content from Durance and GM.

 

[ArchAngel]

My take on it is that Eothas decided to rebel against the entire pantheon system that Thaos created. What kept people in place was fear of the gods like Woedica and the concept that the gods were immortal. By allowing himself to die to the Godhammer, he wrecked the concept of the gods as invincible beings and reinforced the power of power/animancy in the world.

Thaos' system depended on people being afraid of invincible all-knowing beings. That system no longer makes sense if a god got "tricked" into a trap and killed by a man-made bomb.

Which is another reason for the gods to actually approve of Thaos instigating Waidwen's Legacy.

I think they were pretty strict on not risking to spread the knowledge of the Godhammer though. Remember that Magran killed all the other people who helped make the Godhammer, except for Durance. It is implied heavily in your conversations with Durance that the Godhammer was made using knowledge of animancy, and not (at least not just) blackpowder. Why exactly Durance survived I don't think is made clear in the game, I think it might have to do with some of the cut content from Durance and GM.

Durance left before the other 11 were killed. He had a crisis of faith and decided to go on a trial.
Also since he says he was waiting for you because of a vision when you meet him, it might be that Magran wanted him to travel with you and stop Thaos. He said after they used the Godhammer on Eothas he immediately felt Magran's displeasure. He though she was displeased at him, but she might have been displeased about her.

 

[Rostere]

Durance left before the other 11 were killed. He had a crisis of faith and decided to go on a trial.

Seriously? Where is this revealed? I must have missed this :S This feels very bad, I thought I had went through all of Durance's content.

Also since he says he was waiting for you because of a vision when you meet him, it might be that Magran wanted him to travel with you and stop Thaos. He said after they used the Godhammer on Eothas he immediately felt Magran's displeasure. He though she was displeased at him, but she might have been displeased about her.

But Magran does not recognize Durance in the Council of Stars. I think it would be very unlikely that she has sent him any visions since after the Godhammer.

 

[Eyestabber]

I think i failed durance's quest. Epilogue said he burned himself. Can some1 tell me Durance's good ending?

 

[Maculo]

My take on it is that Eothas decided to rebel against the entire pantheon system that Thaos created. What kept people in place was fear of the gods like Woedica and the concept that the gods were immortal. By allowing himself to die to the Godhammer, he wrecked the concept of the gods as invincible beings and reinforced the power of power/animancy in the world.

Thaos' system depended on people being afraid of invincible all-knowing beings. That system no longer makes sense if a god got "tricked" into a trap and killed by a man-made bomb.

Which is another reason for the gods to actually approve of Thaos instigating Waidwen's Legacy.

I think they were pretty strict on not risking to spread the knowledge of the Godhammer though. Remember that Magran killed all the other people who helped make the Godhammer, except for Durance. It is implied heavily in your conversations with Durance that the Godhammer was made using knowledge of animancy, and not (at least not just) blackpowder. Why exactly Durance survived I don't think is made clear in the game, I think it might have to do with some of the cut content from Durance and GM.

My understanding from hearing Magran and Galwain at the Temple of Stars (whatever it is called in Twim Elms) is that Magran expected mankind to use animancy to rise above. Hence, Magran and Galwain wanted you to use the stored spirits to empower the population instead of releasing the souls. Also, from what I remember, the gods promised not to interfere and to let the population find its own answers through animancy (some did at least). Woedica began to interfere by trying to activate the machines, which in turn caused Eothas to intervene. My assumption was that Magran also interfered just enough to kill Eothas and to set the story into motion. Magran did not, however, want to just give secrets of animancy away, hence she tried to kill Durance. It partially made sense, because I thought Magran was the aspect of personal struggle and trial, and so just giving knowledge away was contradictory.

Honestly, I think PoE's story is minimalist in the sense that it leaves a lot unexplained. It only tells you the basics and you are left to come to your own conclusions. Alternatively, the gods just really hated the shit out of Woedica.

 

[Commissar Draco]

The setting is good its FR with a twist its the way it was used is ; but I did liked the ending and many outcomes from it even if this story would be more interesting if Thaos was renegade who betrayed all gods and want become one... and thus you could ally yourself with various gods to get him.

Spoiler

I was surprise you could in the end tell Iovara U Mad, destroy her soul to make her shut up about muh Euphoric Atheism and return the souls to Queen who was which was option for my St Eliga Aedyrian Paladin from Aristocrat background... I made Alloth the Leader of new reformed Leaden Key, Edar became happy Eothosian, GM nurse in ND, Durance a Hobo , Not Ork became advocate for Traditionalism. Good ending Even for Raymond VIII and GV, My Stronghold, Dyrford and ND.

 

[ArchAngel]

The setting is good its FR with a twist its the way it was used is ; but I did liked the ending and many outcomes from it even if this story would be more interesting if Thaos was renegade who betrayed all gods and want become one... and thus you could ally yourself with various gods to get him.

Spoiler

I was surprise you could in the end tell Iovara U Mad, destroy her soul to make her shut up about muh Euphoric Atheism and return the souls to Queen who was which was option for my St Eliga Aedyrian Paladin from Aristocrat background... I made Alloth the Leader of new reformed Leaden Key, Edar became happy Eothosian, GM nurse in ND, Durance a Hobo , Not Ork became advocate for Traditionalism. Good ending Even for Raymond VIII and GV, My Stronghold, Dyrford and ND.

A man wanting to become God is standard and would be boring. This story came with a nice twist and it is better because of it.

 

[Beowulf]

I think i failed durance's quest. Epilogue said he burned himself. Can some1 tell me Durance's good ending?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pillars_of_Eternity_endings?cookieSetup=true#Durance

I convinced him that Magran wanted to kill him, along with the other 11, so no one would know of her involvement.

 

[WhiteGuts]

I didn't feel like the Gods being fake reveal added that much to the story. It was supposed to wow you out but it falls flat on its face, mostly because I feel like you just learned about the shenanigans going on between the gods, since they were merely abstract concepts for like 4/5 of the game.
I didn't feel the build up was strong enough. I think the writers overestimated the player's investment into the backstory that was constantly being dumped on you.

 

[Starwars]

I thought it was a good moment. It's kinda weird but I felt way "closer" to the gods in PoE than I ever did to any of the gods in any D&D game I've played (never played PnP though). Even the ones where they are featured heavily, such as MotB, they still feel way more distant to me. And I had a bit of a problem with... I dunno, relating to all what was going on with them there. Perhaps it's because there's such a fuckload of them all in all.
Partl of that may be because PoE is fresh. Its lore hasn't been developed for long, and there are only a few gods we know of so far, so they are fairly clear-cut and we also get to speak with them so we get a personalized interaction with them. Perhaps it's also because of the whole Godhammer thing, grounding it somewhat in the "everyday world" of the people also.
Speaking with Myrkul is fucking awesome, but all the shit with the gods and their personal drama feels way too "high-level" for me to really connect with. That's totally fine for MotB and it works really well but I view the PoE gods in a different light.

I mean, the reveal wasn't a moment that *wowed* me emotionally speaking or anything, but it was a moment that made me go "now this is certainly interesting". And it may mean interesting things for the setting depending on how it's developed in future products.

 

[WhiteGuts]

Yes, the lore is fresh and in clear need of developpement, and that's why I felt the reveal might have been too early. The people of Eora certainly know the gods for a long time now but we don't, and no amount of infodumps is going to change that simple fact.

 

[Rostere]

I know I've said this for, like, 1000000 times but I think the problem was that the reveals came too late. At that point, there was precious little time to treat it in the game. As it is now, it comes as "oh, and by the way this" at the very end. You are not allowed to discuss it with a lot of people and allow it to be treated from various angles.

 

[Maculo]

I think the reveals did not tie in together well. The story has you relive memories from your past life in which you asked Thaos if the gods were real. Thaos gave a non-asnwer, even though you helped capture and kill your friend/sibling/lover over that very question. The memory of that question survived your past death, which is what awakened your Watcher status when you see Thaos (or so I thought based on the Watcher information and slides). It was never really explicit and you kind had to do some guess-work (like I am doing now).

I was hoping that the reason Thaos did not kill you outright was because he saw that you were the former disciple, but that never panned out.

Also, I wanted an option to revive Eothas with the souls, although that would probably go against the religion.

 

[treave]

Why exactly Durance survived I don't think is made clear in the game, I think it might have to do with some of the cut content from Durance and GM.

But Magran does not recognize Durance in the Council of Stars. I think it would be very unlikely that she has sent him any visions since after the Godhammer.

This could be related. Perhaps it's not that Magran failed to kill him, but more that Magran can't see him anymore.

 

[Beowulf]

You can suggest via some dialogue options, that she cannot see him because his sole was fractured/some fragment tore apart in that Godhammer blast and that she doesn't recognize him anymore, implying that she tried to kill him - but I think it's a patchwork of some sort, because Charname doesn't suggest anything of sort earlier (or at least I didn't encounter it).

 

[Bleed the Man]

You can suggest via some dialogue options, that she cannot see him because his sole was fractured/some fragment tore apart in that Godhammer blast and that she doesn't recognize him anymore, implying that she tried to kill him - but I think it's a patchwork of some sort, because Charname doesn't suggest anything of sort earlier (or at least I didn't encounter it).

It's based on the visions/dreams you have about him, where you see his soul... don't remember exactly what the game says, but it's made clear that his souls is somewhat damaged or different.

 

[Eyestabber]

I think i failed durance's quest. Epilogue said he burned himself. Can some1 tell me Durance's good ending?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pillars_of_Eternity_endings?cookieSetup=true#Durance

I convinced him that Magran wanted to kill him, along with the other 11, so no one would know of her involvement.

Ty. Sad to know that there is NO SUCH THING as a "good" ending as far as Durance is concerned...

 

[Rostere]

This could be related. Perhaps it's not that Magran failed to kill him, but more that Magran can't see him anymore.

I'd say both, really.

The game makes very clear that something is fucked up with his soul. I don't know exactly why I was thinking that has to do with cut content from GM/Durance.

 

[ArchAngel]

I think i failed durance's quest. Epilogue said he burned himself. Can some1 tell me Durance's good ending?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pillars_of_Eternity_endings?cookieSetup=true#Durance

I convinced him that Magran wanted to kill him, along with the other 11, so no one would know of her involvement.

Ty. Sad to know that there is NO SUCH THING as a "good" ending as far as Durance is concerned...

Considering how he acts towards everyone else that is the good ending for him.

 

[Beowulf]

You can suggest via some dialogue options, that she cannot see him because his sole was fractured/some fragment tore apart in that Godhammer blast and that she doesn't recognize him anymore, implying that she tried to kill him - but I think it's a patchwork of some sort, because Charname doesn't suggest anything of sort earlier (or at least I didn't encounter it).

It's based on the visions/dreams you have about him, where you see his soul... don't remember exactly what the game says, but it's made clear that his souls is somewhat damaged or different.

Yeah, but at the same time, did you personally connect it all like this? It came to me as a far fetched probability only after I saw that particular line in the dialogue. But then again, I hardly cared about the gods and heavy handed lore (YMMV applies of course).

 

[WhiteGuts]

This could be related. Perhaps it's not that Magran failed to kill him, but more that Magran can't see him anymore.

I'd say both, really.

The game makes very clear that something is fucked up with his soul. I don't know exactly why I was thinking that has to do with cut content from GM/Durance.

I thought it was obvious that the Godhammer's fire somehow skewed Durance's soul (standing too close), rendering him invisible to Magran, that's why she couldn't kill him. The Watcher says as much.

 

[DeepOcean]

I liked the gods scheeming against each other and having their own goals, they were the only redeemable aspect of PoE but the way they were treated was clumsy to say the least. Once I reached the telephone chamber to the gods right on act 3, I only heard Galawain Abbydon, Berath, Hylea by the lore books that were written so dry that I had the feeling of traveling to the Saara desert every time I tried and stopped reading them. So, when I got to act 3, the gods changed from barely mentioned and, if you couldn't stand to read PoE's lore with their dull writing, almost unknown. True story, I only discovered PoE had a god of ice and death when I get to the telephone chamber.

You have their sidequests that are a few sidequests in the game that aren't totally boring but still... you barely deal with them, get to know them so the grand reveal could cause some impact. When the grand reveal came I just raised an eyebrow and tought "If you say so, I guess this must be important to you writer." when the game ended I just standed there looking to PoE main menu... thinking... "It must had been very fun to the writers of this game to create this whole world... and all of that...they just forgot about me, I literally paid 40 dollars to watch the writers masturbating for 20 hs."

 

[Eyestabber]

Bottom line: PoE's lore had potential to be interesting, but the game's writing suffers from a serious case of head-stuck-up-his-own-arse-itys