Fallout Fallout 1-2 builds

[luj1]

agris Lexx Cael

Is there something which expands build variety here

this is the only problem with Fallout 1, u have like 4-5 builds

There aren’t new builds enabled by et tu, but if you quickly describe the archetype of the 4-5 you have in mind, you may be surprised that more are not just possible - but fun and feasible.

I know like 5 builds

Sniper, brawler, stupid, junkie, energy weapons

Also Gifted is OP trait, while some other traits are useless

1) what other builds are there?
2) any mods that expand build variety?
3) any mods that balance traits?

Imo build variety is is the main problem with FO1, an otherwise near perfect RPG

 

[Wunderbar]

Wtf, now Infinitron splits singular posts?

 

[Wunderbar]

I know like 5 builds

Sniper, brawler, stupid, junkie, energy weapons

pistols build: one hander trait + small arms (223 pistol), or one hander trait + energy weapons (alien blaster). You can also throw Sniper in here somewhere for guaranteed crits.

Can also use fast shot trait, which turns your character into some fastest hand in the west type of guy.

 

[Funposter]

1) what other builds are there?

There's Guns/Speech dumping points into Energy Weapons late-game and there's the Gambling build. Literally no reason to do anything else.

 

[luj1]

Actually might try some gambling/junkie build

 

[Jigby]

;stealth+pacifist (no kill) might be a playthrough
;throwing (flares) is an obvious candidate
;3AP challenge ironman

not sure what brawler is specifically, I think there are 2 brawlers at least... the 10 supersledge attacks/round brawler and the aimed shot to the head KO brawler...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

et tu enables a CHA build if you use the settings that uses the FO2 cha requirement for followers, also can enable the feature in the newest patch that restores cut followers

 

[Reality]

Big guns aka it's easy to afford and carry enough flamethrower ammo to do everything but for the cathedral/base only you can use rocket launcher and minigun for 10 minutes of 1 hit kills.

Companions aren't surviving ofc.

Flamethrower only is fun in F1 because the base damage almost always gets humans outright and even deathclaws have a high chance. The flamethrower also bypasses accuracy sort of with it's cone effect. Trying this in F2 doesn't work because you can't high roll almost anything with that games flamethrower

 

[Average Manatee]

There's an AC/Jinxed build. Not sure if that counts the same as "brawler" since you're taking HTH Evade. You kind of have to abuse the Tag! exploit to get 300 unarmed. Hilarious though and worth a playthrough.

edit: wait nvm, fallout 1 not 2.

 

[Ryan muller]

For combat ones i could think about throwing + burst to knock down people with flares and then finish them off

A melee sledge Hammer/Ripper build focused on Finesse and maximizing crit (better criticals and stuff) with high agility + throwing as a secondary tag for grenades is also fun as you can stunlock enemies, keep them away from you and still guarantee to defeat stronger foes at distance backing up your close damage with grenades for AoE

Theres the fun jinxed ones too, like a high luck unarmed build with jinxed that also happens to have high gambling skills. This essentially makes you the luckiest guy in the world and maximize item aquisition at the early game, you will be both rich and extremely sucessful at combat while half of the world died as you have the least threatening crit failures while your enemies have their guns exploding at their faces.


For non combat builds, theres plenty to try such as a party doctor focused on Healing your party members and leting them do the work or even the classic thief with high sneak, traits like one hander and perks like silent running. Theres some stealth boys in fo1 and its pretty fun to do the underworld or the thieves circle's questline to progress + finish the master off with the reactor instead of fighting/speeching.

The game has plenty of builds to try out.

People just dont try because they focus on the most effective ones, min/max combat feats to all hell and following optimal guides.

This happens at every single game thats not very well balanced.

 

[Jigby]

If you're going to play et tu, keep in mind that some of the builds no longer work that well, for starters gambling is nerfed and you can no longer get supersledge in Hub.

 

[Jigby]

The skill check to succeed should be higher, but more importantly roulette is no longer played in the Hub casino, it was replaced with craps. The gambling exploit relies on roulette, it doesn't work on craps. Not sure about the Junktown casino, roulette might still be played there. If so, do it before you kill Gizmo.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Et tu?

 

[Jigby]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/fallout-et-tu-fallout-to-fallout-2-engine-conversion.131767/

 

[Hobo Elf]

A melee sledge Hammer/Ripper build focused on Finesse and maximizing crit (better criticals and stuff)

Turns out that Finesse isn't really worth it: https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/did-you-know-finesse-is-actually-a-terrible-trait-fo2.220582/
Personally I never used it since it made the early game an even bigger slog due to the 30%~ reduction in normal damage. Finally someone crunched the numbers and I feel vindicated. And it's pretty much impossible to play FO2 normally and not get the Slayer perk which means that Finesse is an even bigger waste.

 

[Ryan muller]

A melee sledge Hammer/Ripper build focused on Finesse and maximizing crit (better criticals and stuff)

Turns out that Finesse isn't really worth it: https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/did-you-know-finesse-is-actually-a-terrible-trait-fo2.220582/
Personally I never used it since it made the early game an even bigger slog due to the 30%~ reduction in normal damage. Finally someone crunched the numbers and I feel vindicated. And it's pretty much impossible to play FO2 normally and not get the Slayer perk which means that Finesse is an even bigger waste.

But the build i mentioned does predict Better critical usage.

In fact its focused on Damaging eyes and head to combo their effects and high damage to stuns and the knock off effect

 

[Hobo Elf]

A melee sledge Hammer/Ripper build focused on Finesse and maximizing crit (better criticals and stuff)

Turns out that Finesse isn't really worth it: https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/did-you-know-finesse-is-actually-a-terrible-trait-fo2.220582/
Personally I never used it since it made the early game an even bigger slog due to the 30%~ reduction in normal damage. Finally someone crunched the numbers and I feel vindicated. And it's pretty much impossible to play FO2 normally and not get the Slayer perk which means that Finesse is an even bigger waste.

But the build i mentioned does predict Better critical usage.

In fact its focused on Damaging eyes and head to combo their effects and high damage to stuns and the knock off effect

Never found the the extra crit to matter much when you're good enough at eye shots. You'll crit a lot then and when you don't you'll still do some damage, whereas with Finesse you are at the mercy of crits. With Finesse you're gimping yourself by a lot just to have an insignificant boost later (Better Crits), and not for long as you'll eventually get Slayer / Sniper after which Finesse becomes a detriment since it lowers your overall damage.

 

[Butter]

A melee sledge Hammer/Ripper build focused on Finesse and maximizing crit (better criticals and stuff)

Turns out that Finesse isn't really worth it: https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/did-you-know-finesse-is-actually-a-terrible-trait-fo2.220582/
Personally I never used it since it made the early game an even bigger slog due to the 30%~ reduction in normal damage. Finally someone crunched the numbers and I feel vindicated. And it's pretty much impossible to play FO2 normally and not get the Slayer perk which means that Finesse is an even bigger waste.

This is a Fallout 1 thread. Lilura is probably the only person autistic enough to grind encounters to get Slayer before finishing Fallout 1.

 

[Hobo Elf]

A melee sledge Hammer/Ripper build focused on Finesse and maximizing crit (better criticals and stuff)

Turns out that Finesse isn't really worth it: https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/did-you-know-finesse-is-actually-a-terrible-trait-fo2.220582/
Personally I never used it since it made the early game an even bigger slog due to the 30%~ reduction in normal damage. Finally someone crunched the numbers and I feel vindicated. And it's pretty much impossible to play FO2 normally and not get the Slayer perk which means that Finesse is an even bigger waste.

This is a Fallout 1 thread. Lilura is probably the only person autistic enough to grind encounters to get Slayer before finishing Fallout 1.

Shit, you're right. No one (sane) is gonna get those perks in FO1.

 

[Average Manatee]

A melee sledge Hammer/Ripper build focused on Finesse and maximizing crit (better criticals and stuff)

Turns out that Finesse isn't really worth it: https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/did-you-know-finesse-is-actually-a-terrible-trait-fo2.220582/
Personally I never used it since it made the early game an even bigger slog due to the 30%~ reduction in normal damage. Finally someone crunched the numbers and I feel vindicated. And it's pretty much impossible to play FO2 normally and not get the Slayer perk which means that Finesse is an even bigger waste.

Damn, if its adding +30% to enemy DR then finesse isn't just not worth it, it's SHIT. JHP ammo adds +25% DR as well and basic bitch leather armor another +25%, which makes Finesse into a -60% damage reduction penalty. And this is, like, the most favorable scenario possible, enemy DR is only going to go up and ammo modifiers don't improve much except for a few weapons.

Guess the powergamer trait decision is between fast shot, good natured, and short frame (obviously everyone takes gifted).

 

[Average Manatee]

Although now that I think about it, Skilled might be the real 2nd powergamer pick (had the thought before but never posted about it and never seen it talked about). Consider:

- We assume that the level 3 perks are basically useless. Quick Pockets and Toughness are pretty mediocre and everything else is trash.
- We save our level 4 perk till level 6.
- At level 8 we get our 2nd useful perk, which actually puts us 1 level ahead of non-skilled.
- At level 12 we get our 3rd, same level as non-skilled.
- At level 16 we are 1 level behind non-skilled
- At level 20 we are 2 levels behind non-skilled.
- At level 24 we are 1 full perk behind non-skilled.

So if you go all the way to Slayer/Sniper in fallout 2 effectively you are trading 1 useful perk that you are slowly losing in the form of slowed perk progression over the course of the whole game for +10% to all skills immediately and +115 skills points as you level. HThat's really quite good if you're making a generalist build. Think I'll try it for my next replay.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

real powergamer perk is coming up with a character in your head and picking the perks that fit its personality

 

[Jigby]

Finesse is perfectly fine for some builds e.g. barehanded unarmed or the flares throwing one. Obviously for the typical Per Jorner gifted sniper it's not very useful (not harmful though).

Although now that I think about it, Skilled might be the real 2nd powergamer pick (had the thought before but never posted about it and never seen it talked about). Consider:

- We assume that the level 3 perks are basically useless. Quick Pockets and Toughness are pretty mediocre and everything else is trash.
- We save our level 4 perk till level 6.
- At level 8 we get our 2nd useful perk, which actually puts us 1 level ahead of non-skilled.
- At level 12 we get our 3rd, same level as non-skilled.
- At level 16 we are 1 level behind non-skilled
- At level 20 we are 2 levels behind non-skilled.
- At level 24 we are 1 full perk behind non-skilled.

So if you go all the way to Slayer/Sniper in fallout 2 effectively you are trading 1 useful perk that you are slowly losing in the form of slowed perk progression over the course of the whole game for +10% to all skills immediately and +115 skills points as you level. HThat's really quite good if you're making a generalist build. Think I'll try it for my next replay.

In F1 skilled gives you the +10% to all skills and no additional skill points
In F2 skilled gives you +0% to all skills and 5 additional skill points/level

I'd say in F1 skilled is really useful and underappreciated. Combat is easy and perks are mostly combat related you don't mind having 1 perk less, especially when you can just delay taking the perk. In F2 though because of the HP bloat it's not a good pick. +5 skill points and no +% is is nothing given how the F2 skill inflation is going to eat into it. You're having fewer perks AND you have them later (lvl 15 perk on lvl 16, lvl 18 perk on lvl 20...) and the trade off for that are the 5 skill points with the F2 skill inflation. And if you're playing with sfall (even the old version that GOG and Steam come with) you can accumulate unused perks. So that useless lvl 3 perk is now a Bonus Move on lvl 6. That puts you 2 perks behind on lvl 24.

 

[Jigby]

I'd agree with that if we're talking about Fallout 2, but in F1 there are only so many useful perks that you can take and combat is super easy. Bonus Move+Better Criticals+Bonus Rate of Fire is all you need for Ya typical gun build. The worst thing is that you get Better Criticals on lvl 12 instead of 9, that does somewhat suck.... I'm not saying it's some absolute must pick, but it is far better than the Fallout 2 reputation leads to believe. In F2 it's quite bad indeed.

Edit: Also as far as the skills are concerned, to me it's a convenience thing. With skilled/no gifted and 10INT you get exactly 45 Science skill on hard difficulty which happens to be just the threshold you need for the crop rotation check in Shady Sands. Also in F1 barter is very impactful even with a low skill level, the difference between let's say 10% barter and 20% could be 10000 on the combat armor price in Hub (taking this off my head). Same for chems and the rest of it. Better doctor skill, more xp etc... It's a convenience thing.

 

[Average Manatee]

In F1 skilled gives you the +10% to all skills and no additional skill points
In F2 skilled gives you +0% to all skills and 5 additional skill points/level

Apparently it was buffed in et tu which is what I just installed and was playing with. That definitely makes it a lot weaker than I was thinking. Still, not sure it's bad.

Skilled is and always will be a garbage trait, unless you're doing some weird marginal build, because you're trading useful perks for skill points that aren't that useful. You likely won't need more than four filled-out skills in a game, and by level 6/7 all your three tag skills should be over 100 already. So you're just left filling in your fourth skill if you want one (usually a combat skill change, like Small Guns >>> Energy/Big Guns or Melee >>> Unarmed, or teching into Doctor or Lockpick in FO2).

Perks >>> Skills, always.

What if you want a completionist game where you hit every skill check though? Or what if you also want to gamble early for infinite money? What if you want even more guns skill to ping some from truly max range? It's also only really 1 perk as I went over, and that perk is between levels 16 and 24 which is pretty late.

e.g.
level 4 bonus move or more criticals or bonus ranged damage
level 8 better criticals
level 12 action boy
level 16 bonus rate of fire
level 20 action boy
level 24 sniper

What other great, mind-blowing perk have I missed out on? All you'd probably do is take a 2nd rank of what you took at level 4. And those perks are pretty marginal.

If anything I'd say the argument against skilled is that if you want a weapon skill at 300 (and way, way more other skill points to spend) then abusing the Tag! exploit is superior. But that's also spending one of your later perks on a skills perk.