Fuck That Shit (replaying MotB instead).

[Lyric Suite]

But Paladins are NOT useless . They are pretty powerful with the correct choice of feats and a splash of RDD (without that they do not actually get so many benefits).

Yeah but i'm not touching anything with the word "dragon" in it. Fuck that shit and the asshole that came up with that.

Rangers do look like they are a bit powered with One shot and bane but again to really make use of these skill they have to go the dex route.

Not necessarily for a dual wielding ranger, because they get Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting for free. Since Bane of Enemies applies to each attack you make in a round, that extra weapon actually becomes useful, and without the ungodly 25 DEX requirement for Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, you can pump STR for extra damage.

 

[Infinitron]

I Want To Be A Red Dragon Disciple

 

[Lyric Suite]

I don't see how that makes a difference. You get to wear weaker armors but you can apply an higher DEX bonus to them, which sorts of even things out. Plus you get a pet which can soak quite a few hits away from you. I think the boar gets up to 180HP by the end which isn't too shabby, considering those HPs are on top of what you already get.

Of course you don't get the saves of a Paladin, which means spells will fuck you up.

 

[Daemongar]

I totally get off on building characters in the D&D system.

Me, too. Which made NWN2's flaws more than bearable.

Of course, SOZ is even more fun since you can build your entire party from scratch. (I really need to go back and play through that again.)

On a boring night when I should be doing anything else, I'm starting MotB and building a 15th level... something. I don't even play the slobs I build, I just use the tools to create different combinations. It's hypnotic.

The flaw that makes the whole NWN2 engine painful for me is the feeling of openness, but no openness. The movement is in only certain areas outside, as if the game would break if you had BG1 total map exploration. There was a feeling I was on rails, even if the games offer some non-linearity. This I blame on the engine.

Either way, I'll try out that SoZ. I bought the full enchilada when it was on Steam for $10, just for MotB and SoZ.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I don't see how that makes a difference. You get to wear weaker armors but you can apply an higher DEX bonus to them, which sorts of even things out. Plus you get a pet which can soak quite a few hits away from you. I think the boar gets up to 180HP by the end which isn't too shabby, considering those HPs are on top of what you already get.

That's the problem.

You either get the weaker armour and the DEX bonus and weak damage or you get good str (damage) and weaker armour with overall low AC.

Maybe there's something i have forgotten in the way this system works.

Assuming you want to pump DEX (and if you ignore STR, there's nothing else to pump anyway). Assuming you start with 17 or 18. You get 7 extra points from leveling, plus whatever else you get from items (lets say +8 DEX). So, that's 17 (to make it even) + 7 + 8 = 32, which gives you a bonus of 11 to your armor class and a bonus of 11 to hit with a finessable weapon, which deals less damage then a normal weapon plus you need to sacrifice a feat to use properly. But, the highest armor you can use is a padded armor anyway, and that's forces you to stop pumping DEX at 26 (+8 max bonus).

So that's 1 AC +8 from DEX plus whatever enchantment the armor has, lets say +5. That totals to a 14 AC bonus.

Now, lets say you pump STR instead. The best armor you can wear is a mithral breastplate, which gives you 5 to AC with a 5 max DEX bonus (DEX of 20, which is easily achieved with items). So that's 5 AC +5 from DEX +5 from a basic enchantment = 15 AC.

Am i missing something here? I won't mention the massive bonus in damage you get by pumping STR all the way, not to mention if you get Monkey Grip (which replaces Finesse here). Plus, if you are going to pump DEX that much, why not simply use a fighter and pick Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting manually?

 

[J1M]

Clerics are the BEST, THE BEST melee builds in the game

Things like Epic Divine Might are't bad, but I fail to see how different combinations of Fighter/Monk/Ranger with RDD and other prestiges with 12 to 18 attacks per round are slacking compared to clerics.

Monks probably do well becuase of High saves and access to HiPS.

Rangers only out doors. Inside they are toast. Their most powerful abilities are USELESS VERSUS CLERICS who have buffs on.

Fighters do not get huge number of attacks unless they use TWF. That kills their damage since they go the dex route then. Same for Rangers. Only Rogues and Monks can use TWF well. Monks are again poor damage, huge number of attacks builds.

Rogues really really can fuck you up. They are as powerful as Wizards I would say although Iron Sorc disagrees.

Two questions.

Can you explain why a monk would need to go for DEX over STR? Is it entirely for the AC boost?

I find epic levels annoying. Does anyone have a lvl 30 Warlock build I can lift for MotB? I made one a while back that splashed a level in cleric for the free feats, but I'd like to see other options.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Wait, i thought we were comparing a STR based Ranger build with a DEX based Ranger.

Rangers will never reach Highest ABs either, since they will never get Greater + superior weapon focus.

They do with their favored enemies. You can say that's purely situational, but, really. Humans, Undead, Outsiders and Fey. There. That's like 80% of the enemies you'll find.

Plus Bane of Enemies, which is the best combat feat you can have. Situational, but again, not really.

The only proper way of monkeying with two big weapons is frenzied berserker. Or you take a big hit to your AB.

Granted. I was just throwing that out there. Everybody keeps saying BAB doesn't matter as much in MoTB since its already very high, so the Monkey Grip penalty ought to be a bit counterbalanced. Besides, a Frenzied Berserker cannot dual wield (again 25 DEX for PTWF), and wearing a shield doesn't allow them to use Enhanced Attack Power (plus they lose the extra STR bonus for using a weapon with two hands), so that's a bit redundant.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Well, you said you were going to play a melee build, right?


Then it's probably best not to play ANY divine classes. I say this as someone who did all the NWN and NWN2 campaigns as a divine class the first time round. Even though I love the idea of being a righteous follower of X or Y fantasy god, I understand quite well I am not making things easy for me.

When you play a divine class for the purpose of a melee build, you sacrifice BaB and damage...in favour of a class that can temporarily buff BaB and damage? So you made a permanent benefit temporary?

So even if Divine Might could be cast instantly instead of having a round lost, (combat-wise) it's still not preferable to simply having a character who does more damage and more often.

PS: As for stats, all of them are important in MotB. All of them come of use. All skills come of great use too. So work with what you have and see where it takes you.

Well, one big advantage of a divine melee build is that divine damage is hard to come by, and supposedly it is rather hard to resist.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I was under the impression rage bonuses did not stack with items (way to make a class skill redundant). Unless they fixed that.

That's besides the point of course, since we were discussing Monkey Grip, which allows a character to use a two-handed weapon in one hand, which only applies to either dual-wielding or when using a shield, and the Frenzied Berserker is at his best when using a weapon with two hands, so Monkey Grip is a bit of a waste here.

Seriously Captain Shrek, pay attention!

 

[Jasede]

I keep trying and trying but I don't know how you people play this. How do you move the character and the camera efficiently? What settings should I use? NWN had 10000x better camera than this terrible mess.
Also, how do I bring up a character sheer, other than pressing the C key?

 

[Shadenuat]

We create munchkin builds which can clear everything by one click so we don't have to deal with camera, obviously.

The strategic camera is OK, except the time when you have to deal with levered terrain. You have SoZ installed don't you? There are three camera modes and you can switch between them by pressing buttonz at the right side of hotbar.

 

[J1M]

Two questions.

Can you explain why a monk would need to go for DEX over STR? Is it entirely for the AC boost?

I find epic levels annoying. Does anyone have a lvl 30 Warlock build I can lift for MotB? I made one a while back that splashed a level in cleric for the free feats, but I'd like to see other options.

Yes. It is AC boost. Monks can not wear armour. If you pump str you don't pump Wis so your AC is mediocre to consider the best.

Str monks are viable but then they don't have good AC nor good Hide/Move silent to use HiPS properly (but that is actually a minor issue).

See this is what I was talking about. WIS translates directly into AC too, plus has other benefits. So why not focus on STR/WIS and leave dex to a respectable 14 + items or buffs?

You get far more stat points from items than from levelling generally, so a build that makes use of more stats is stronger when you include items. A STR monk still gets AC from DEX items, but a DEX monk gets nothing from a belt of giant's strength. Additionally, flurry makes the investment into TWF less valuable.

 

[Lyric Suite]

They don't have to. They just need to stack with each other. You can go to 35 str just with clever planning and use Rage bonuses plus Bulls str (?) to go 50.

Actually, you are right. In the sense i just remembered items have a +12 bonus cap, which makes that Greater Frenzy bonus more useful. The intricacies of this game are coming back at me a bit of the time.

Monkey is not wasted. Even with the hit to AB the total bonus is out of the roof and the damage can be crazy.

Yeah, but don't forget that by wielding a weapon with two hands you get 50% extra damage from STR. At 50, that's an extra 10 points of damage. Plus, you lose the extra bonus from Enhanced or Supreme Power Attack (which again applies only when wielding a weapon with two hands. Either wise you get a more lukewarm bonus). By going sword and board you lose quite a bit of damage. Monkey Grip won't help that much here, not compared with the AB penalties you get.

At any rate, everybody seems to think even the ludicrous cleave of the Frenzied Barbarian is wasted in MoTB, since enemies will hardly be killed with one hit.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Yeah but Monkey Grip is only needed if you want to wield that weapon in one hand. You can just wield that Greatsword with both hands and get it over with.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Maybe they just ignored Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting and simply went from there. But seriously, i just can't imagine dual wielding anything without getting five attacks per round per weapon. That's a serious great deal of hurt right there, and the only way to get there with a STR based build is going Ranger up to 21. Maybe they just added Frenzied Berserker levels after that.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I guess you can just make a variant of this that includes Monkey Grip and you are good to go:

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Ranger_-_Ra(21),FB(5),Brb(2),F(2)

 

[Daemongar]

Yeah but Monkey Grip is only needed if you want to wield that weapon in one hand. You can just wield that Greatsword with both hands and get it over with.

Could be. I remember seeing some numbers that say that dual wielded Falchions are more DPS.

Falchions are 2d8/18-20 crit vs. greatsword 2d6/19-20. That's the difference (I'm typing this from memory.) The critical threat of falchions made them better.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Falchion is 2d4. Of course, the value of criticals are situational too, since there's a lot of enemies that are immune to them (undead for one).

 

[Lyric Suite]

So wait, i just noticed you only get four companions in MoTB (Okku and One of Many taking the same place, since you can only chose one or the other). What's the sixth space for?

 

[Ebonsword]

Fighters do not get huge number of attacks unless they use TWF. That kills their damage since they go the dex route then. Same for Rangers. Only Rogues and Monks can use TWF well.

I dunno, last time I looked at the numbers (which was, admittedly, quite a while ago) a dual-wielder could at least keep pace and probably surpass a single-wielder in NWN2.

The trick was to get as many weapon damage boosts from enchantments going as possible. From what I recall, it's pretty easy to get at least 4d6 extra damage from enchantments on each hit. Adding that much damage to each attack and then doubling your number of attacks more than made up for any losses from Strength bonuses.

 

[Shadenuat]

So wait, i just noticed you only get four companions in MoTB (Okku and One of Many taking the same place, since you can only chose one or the other). What's the sixth space for?

Are you talking about game editor or something?

Anyway, there's that one point in the game when you get to carry Ammon Jero around as bonus NPC.

 

[Black Shogun]

Should you replay NWN2?
Yeah, but whatever you do, avoid Neverwinter 3 at all costs.

 

[Surf Solar]

I played it just recently, finished this grabeyard area and rescued some Captain in the tombs. Now the game tells me I nees to go to Highcliff (?) bit whenever I step on the map transition symbol and click on the location on the worldmap, a "You have encountered something during your travels" message appears, while nothing happens and I am still stuck on the map from before unable to move the party.

Is this a known bug, is there any fix for it? Yes, my game is fully patched too.

No one knows a workaround for this?

 

[Daemongar]

Falchion is 2d4. Of course, the value of criticals are situational too, since there's a lot of enemies that are immune to them (undead for one).

Yeah, yeah. 2d4. Was thinking 2-8 and typed 2d8. Most players will reach for the crits every time though, as they are game changers. I remember a friend playing a monk with dual Kurkuri's or whatever, which after a combination of feats and keen (nothing that wasn't in standard rules) had a threat range of 11-20. These were only a 1d4 weapon, but hey, those crits.

 

[Daemongar]

I played it just recently, finished this grabeyard area and rescued some Captain in the tombs. Now the game tells me I nees to go to Highcliff (?) bit whenever I step on the map transition symbol and click on the location on the worldmap, a "You have encountered something during your travels" message appears, while nothing happens and I am still stuck on the map from before unable to move the party.

Is this a known bug, is there any fix for it? Yes, my game is fully patched too.

No one knows a workaround for this?

I don't know if this will work, but here they have a pretty comprehensive list of console commands. There is "dm_movetoarea" command, but I am not sure if that works with a vanilla adventure. Give it a shot. I remember console commands saved me from a similar bug towards the end of BG2...