Fucking Games Workshop

[fnordcircle]

What a bunch of complete idiots. When will they wake up and see that if they were to turn their entire product line into an online game with a series of expansions and upgrades they would only gain from it? Instead of selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists they could sell the core game for $20-$30 US and each race as an add-on for $20 a pop. PLUS they'd still be selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists who actually enjoy painting.

I'm really looking forward to Relic's new Warhammer game Dawn of War, as I've liked every single Warhammer game I've played. But a complete translation of the rules in a turn-based game playable online against friends would just absolutely kick ass.

Plus they'd still be selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists.

 

[Eragon]

What a bunch of complete idiots. When will they wake up and see that if they were to turn their entire product line into an online game with a series of expansions and upgrades they would only gain from it? .

What about the Warhammer Online MMORPG that THQ and Climax are working on?

www.warhammeronline.com

 

[Seven]

What a bunch of complete idiots. When will they wake up and see that if they were to turn their entire product line into an online game with a series of expansions and upgrades they would only gain from it? Instead of selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists they could sell the core game for $20-$30 US and each race as an add-on for $20 a pop. PLUS they'd still be selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists who actually enjoy painting.

I'm really looking forward to Relic's new Warhammer game Dawn of War, as I've liked every single Warhammer game I've played. But a complete translation of the rules in a turn-based game playable online against friends would just absolutely kick ass.

Plus they'd still be selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists.

Right now, using TB in an MMORPG or even in (mainstream) multiplayer is tatamount to heresy to the suits. Sorry, but it just won't happen in our lifetime unless it's done by independants, or Derek Smart.

 

[Elwro]

That's why I play Necromunda. It has great rules for 3d combat, fun character advancement and is very playable. The best part is that I bought the main box, 1 supplement and 2 additional miniatures and I'm happy with this set for at least 7 years. This game just never gets boring.
(and some might view it as a little bit falloutish. Well, post-apoc anyway).
I never saw any point in buying Warhammer Fantasy Battle. 10 years ago GW began to change the game to be playable by idiots, so the rules where brutally raped and now it's not fun anymore. Even before the rule changes you had to pay at least 100 pounds to have a decent army. Of course me & my friends played with everything but the original.
It was like that. Suppose you want to play a dwarven army. OK, you buy the main set for 40 pounds. You get High Elves and Orcs & Goblins inside. Screw them. You have to buy your Warhammer Armies: Dwarves supplement for I think 15 pounds. OK, you want to have the dwarven king and the runemaster. They're biiig miniatures, that'll be 50 pounds. Gathering an army will easilly cost another 60 pounds. Then you discover that your runemaster is worthless without the Warhammer Magic supplement - another 20 pounds.
Yeah, great fun.

PS. And then paint it all because your opponent will laugh at you if you don't have the Citadel Murky colour visible on chins of your troll slayers.

But still, I have no idea what fnordcircle means by saying "Instead of selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists they could sell the core game for $20-$30 US and each race as an add-on for $20 a pop. PLUS they'd still be selling little metal figures to tens of thousands of hobbyists who actually enjoy painting." If you only have the core game without the little metal figures you can shove the manual right up your ass. And if you want to play with pieces of junk & garbage instead, why bother buying the rulebook if you can xerocopy it or d/l it from Kazaa.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Those games sounds pretty gay, might as well play GI joes with some toddler.

 

[fnordcircle]

What about the Warhammer Online MMORPG that THQ and Climax are working on?

www.warhammeronline.com

That looks great, but that's based off of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay which is a tabletop RPG system.

I'm referring to Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Warhammer 40k which are tabletop wargames.

 

[fnordcircle]

Right now, using TB in an MMORPG or even in (mainstream) multiplayer is tatamount to heresy to the suits. Sorry, but it just won't happen in our lifetime unless it's done by independants, or Derek Smart.

Well, this isn't a case of a developer being unwilling to make a turn-based strategy wargame or a publisher not publishing it.

It's a matter of Games Workshop, who owns the rights to the Warhammer world, believing that making a complete online/offline translation of their tabletop game will result in undercutting their main product, the little figures and the books and supplements.

It's anachronistic thinking, from where I'm sitting because, if anything, a well-made video game can create an interest in the original product as well. And all of my fellow fat slob hobby gamers will -still- keep buying figures so they can compete to be kings of the local gaming shop.

WotC certainly isn't suffering after moving Magic into the online realms.

The following numbers are coming out of my ass. Fair warning.

A well-made computer game that gets decent sales in the tens to low hundreds of thousands with additional supplements/add-ons/upgrades to follow is going to result in more revenue than selling to a couple dozen thousand hobby figurine collectors alone. It's as though Games Workshop believes the moment a full-fledged translation of their tabletop wargaming system hits the shelves every single model-buyer is going to give up cold turkey. That just won't happen.

 

[Seven]

I disagree; it's got nothing to do with licensing, and everything to do with the culture of developers and publishers which shuns such ventures as destined to fail. Sure, you should find a developer to do one if you put up the cash, but no publisher will shell-out for a TB MMORPG. I could care less about War Hammer, what I am discussing is the likelihood of a TB MMORPG, which has nothing to do with licensing.

 

[Voss]

Eh, fnord, they don't think it will wipe out the tabletop version, its that a direct translation on the rules would undercut their sales to the point that the costs of developing the computer version would not neccesarily be profitable. Face it- gamers are lazy. Even with average rendering of troops/models it will kick the ass of what 75% of most of the players can actually paint- so if they can play the exact same game with no time investment and at roughly 5-10% of the cost of a 1500-2000 point army, the choice of the casual gamer is rather obvious.
Which is why they made a statement some years ago that they would never do a direct translation of any of the games.

It also doesn't help that almost all of the warhammer computer games have sucked ass. (and none of them have done better than OK, sales wise.)

On the other hand, with Warhammer Online, they're taking a spin off that wasn't that profitable, and that they don't currently support, and turning it into something in a different medium that has a good chance of bringing in money, without affecting their current product line.

 

[fnordcircle]

Voss, yes, gamers are lazy. But you are talking about two different breeds.

You have to agree (and I mean you haf to) that there is a difference between Johnny Counterstrike and some bearded too-smart-for-college gamer shop hanger-on that has 3 completely painted and modded tabletop armies.

It is those people, whose primary social outlet is the gaming shop, that not only make up the core of Games Workshop's customer base, but also would continue to do so even if the game was released.

What's more, they could create an in-house development team. Why? Because they've already got the game in place. The rules, the races, all those things are answered. It's a translation job and not much else. Obviously I'm over simplifying here, but I don't think that the problem with most games is technical, it's design. Beyond designing the user interface, there isn't anything for a development team to screw up here from a design standpoint. And with a straight translation of the exisitng game, playtesting (not bug hunting) for balance has also already been done.

It's my belief, based on no facts whatsoever, that a $50 game consisting of the engine and one army, developed in-house, would result in a larger amount of profit than the ~$80 box sets they put out on the shelves.

I honestly believe that their line of thinking on this is anachronistic. There's more marks that will buy a CD than will buy pewter.

 

[Voss]

It depends what their buyer's demographics are these days. If its mostly the iron-cast hardcore armchair general with an extra foot about the middle and the gamer's sanitary issues (otherwise known as The Smell), then yes they'd buy both.
But if it is, as many of the above bitch, complain and whine about to no end, a herd of small boys named Kevin, then theres likely to be trouble.

I suspect its somewhere in the middle, and I'm not sure where the numbers fall out- but unless the design teams change radically, I don't see them changing anytime soon. Most of the folks in the company don't seem to have a good lock on the computer skills- an internal computer game team would be almost all new hires. So yeah, their line of thinking is on anachronistic side. But in a lot of ways, I agree with it. Also, if there were to do a computer version, personally I'd like to see a brand new rules set. Setting, races, etc would all be good, but theres a ton of things that could be done in a computer format that can't be done on the tabletop (and vice versa). With a different medium, theres no need to stick to the archaic and often bizzare practices of the table top games.