Review Gamerz Edge praises ToEE

[Spazmo]

Oh, Gromnir is indeed larger than life. Anyways...

We usually make fun of positive KotOR reviews because all of them seem to praise the same damn WRONG things--how great the plot is (a filthy lie, that BIG PLOT TWIST is total crap), how non-linear it is (another heap of BS, the only real plot branch comes right at the end of the game) and generally what a great RPG it is... which it isn't.

Conversely, we make fun of negative ToEE reviews because they usually criticise really dumb stuff: they'll say how the game is buggier than hell, an assessment I disagree with because I managed to get through the whole damn game unpatched without and big troubles. One said how annoying it is to get attacked while sleeping by monsters which is garbage because that same reviewer didn't seem to have a problem with that feature in, oh, EVERY DAMN RPG EVER.

So, yes, we liked ToEE quite a bit and we're going to defend it. We mostly liked KotOR, though not as an RPG, and we're not going to let reviewers get away with posting complete bullshit about it. That's how it is. That's the RPG Codex.

 

[Anonymous]

ProTip: Most negative ToEE reviews are written by very ignorant people and they usually mock their blunderings.

Most reviews I read basically said it was a good game that would have been a better game if it wasn't for the bug count.

That's not ignorant - it's a fact.

With any luck someone at Atari with half a brain cell read a couple of those "ignorant" reviews and will recommend that maybe for the next game some decent QA time is involved (hey -we can dream, right?).

That's if they dont reverse production because there's kids and hookers, maybe.

Either way, there's patches, I had a few start up problems pre-patch, post-patch the game runs flawless.

 

[Gromnir]

"So, yes, we liked ToEE quite a bit and we're going to defend it. We mostly liked KotOR, though not as an RPG, and we're not going to let reviewers get away with posting complete bullshit about it. "

but you will let reviewers get away with such bs if it is a positive review of toee. hell, you will yourselves spew bs 'bout toee 'cause you liked it.

*shrug*

we not see as a problem 'cause your biases is so obvious and amusing and we doubt anybody really takes serious, but we not see why some is trying to deny… and like we said, we thinks you folks is fun.

"So why start with a smaller thing and then move to the "real" thing you have on your mind? Are you having sex with the board? "

you can't be this slow.

...

ok, maybe you can.

we started out, from our first post, by questioning vd's integrity… was no attempt to start "small." maybe we was too subtle (HA!) but we was thinking that we was pretty obvious 'bout it. maybe you think we is a big mean jerk, but is not like we was being sneaky or anything… though it seems we somehow confused you.

HA! Good Fun!

p.s. as hard as it is for some folks to believe, Gromnir has rarely called anybody dumb on boards. sargy gets that honor and a couple others, but is a rare thing indeed. we occasionally note that what a person is saying is dumb, but almost never does we call the speaker themselves slow... so congrats on gaining special recognition from us… know that you is part of a very select group of folks.

 

[Sol Invictus]

You take yourself a little too seriously and gauge your opinions a little higher than they deserve to be, which is nil; that is to say you aren't very important to most people so stop acting like it.

Of course, perhaps acting self-important (and I'm not talking about looking out for #1) is the only thing you have to comfort you during the dark, lonely hours of the nights you spend alone, all by your pathetic little self-important self.

 

[Jinxed]

"we started out, from our first post, by questioning vd's integrity… was no attempt to start "small." maybe we was too subtle (HA!) but we was thinking that we was pretty obvious 'bout it. maybe you think we is a big mean jerk, but is not like we was being sneaky or anything… though it seems we somehow confused you.

HA! Good Fun!

p.s. as hard as it is for some folks to believe, Gromnir has rarely called anybody dumb on boards. sargy gets that honor and a couple others, but is a rare thing indeed. we occasionally note that what a person is saying is dumb, but almost never does we call the speaker themselves slow... so congrats on gaining special recognition from us… know that you is part of a very select group of folks.

And this is coming from someone who always reminded me of Minsc.

What I am trying to point out (but you keep blocking from your mind) is that you are trolling. Let me explain it more clearly so that maybe your hamster will understand:

You pointed out Vault Dwellers news item. This way, you attacked him, and only him. After you were met with a couple of arguments, you moved on from Vault Dweller, to saying that you find the ENTIRE site funney.
The reason why I'm pointing this out is because after your first post IMO, everything was fine. Trolling begins when you continue arguing, making up more stuff you want to argue about as time goes on. I knew you were out to flame because I know you a bit from the iply forums, but guess what, I'm not american, and I don't bomb anyone for what they *might* do or what they are *able* to do.

That said, people should just ignore you, along with your all knowing cosmic pet hamster.

 

[DemonKing]

Either way, there's patches, I had a few start up problems pre-patch, post-patch the game runs flawless.

I got more CTD problems post-patch than pre-patch (but maybe that was because I was towards the end of my first game when I patched it).

I am waiting to see if a second patch emerges until I try again with an Iron-Man party.

 

[Calis]

It's a pity that my l33t news archive script completely negates any point you may have had about not making scathing remarks about positive reviews, Gromnir.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/newsarchive.php?GameID=8

Check a few of those out. By going through the first 20 I found enough scathing remarks about errors in positive reviews.

 

[Vault Dweller]

change rules? what are you talking 'bout? we noted that your comment was inherently biased and that your explanation hardly explained anything.

I'd assume that you have some kind of reading comprehension problem, but I think that your opinion is already formed and you wouldn't let any explanations and reasoning get in the way. Well, it's a free country.

we read what you said and your "explanation" changed nothing.

Too bad, there won't be any other.

and yeah, that link by you give is a notable exception by st. p but we already seen it. his opinion of kotor has vascilated somewhat but he generally seemed positive 'bout kotor and we ain't surprised to see him note another relatively positive review of kotor. is notable 'cause it is an exception.

Let me get that straight, anything that doesn't fit your little theory is an exception? Cool.

now, where is yours? and where is your scathing comment concerning a positive toeepost. give one. you has done dozens of silly and even stupid complaints 'bout various reviews, but none from the innumerable stupid toee reviews. and the reason why? is obvious and anybody who follows this board can see.

I told you, I started covering news less then a month ago. I made 3 ToEE posts, use Calis uber news archive script and look for them if you care.

c'mon vd, you said that if you had seen a stupid comment from a toee review that you woulda' likewise mocked... well we has seen dozens of such stoopid comments in toee reviews. so where is your mockery of positive toee reviews? you raised the example yourself, much as the reviewer we note above… now come through.

If you've seen stupid comments in ToEE review, post them here with links and we'll discuss it. You wouldn't really expect me to do the work for you?

but you will let reviewers get away with such bs if it is a positive review of toee. hell, you will yourselves spew bs 'bout toee 'cause you liked it.

And the examples of such bs would be? ToEE has the best DnD combat, and one of the best TB combat. That's what we agree on. Nobody here praised it for Hommlet's quests, sound, or the story.

 

[Gromnir]

again, we apologize for reply/quote stupidity, but as we has seemed to whip so many into a lather...

"Calis uber news archive script and look for them if you care. "

calis is fool/full of doody. we checked. maybe he went through every review... but not on front page of news is there stuff. mockery of comments made in positive reviews of toee? none.

*shrug*

vd says that responding to us is a "waste of time" (is another direct quote for jinx who can't read very well,) but he will keeps responding to us... in part 'cause Gromnir has questioned his integrity and in part 'cause he knows we is right. is no waste of time... is a near necessity to respond, 'cause vd and some of you other regulars seems to be the few folks that ain't getting that this is a joke site... kinda like the onion, but more like the executive intelligence review... 'cause it seems that the only folks NOT in on the joke is the ones part of the site.


"You take yourself a little too seriously and gauge your opinions a little higher than they deserve to be, which is nil; that is to say you aren't very important to most people so stop acting like it."

yeah, the guy who speaks in 3p and ends posts with "HA! Good Fun!" is the one taking too serious. as we said, this is a funny site. is a humorous site and we not actually want to change it, but even spaz seems to tacitly admit what happens here... is not being hidden. regardless of our puckish personality, little ole' Gromnir make a valid comment and vd ain't really been able to respond to it yet.

"If you've seen stupid comments in ToEE review, post them here with links and we'll discuss it."

as an aside, we already did. didn't think we needed to link for obvious reasons though.

HA! Good Fun!

p.s. we do applaud spaz for his relative honesty... is such a rare thing.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

calis is fool/full of doody. we checked. maybe he went through every review... but not on front page of news is there stuff. mockery of comments made in positive reviews of toee? none.

Try these, numbnuts:

ToEE wins an award, I make fun of the award

Spazmo makes fun of ToEE's bugs following a postive review

Spazmo mentions ToEE could have stood more time to bake

I refer to the NPC looting thing as "unacceptable"

I make fun of a 5/5 GEM review for saying something about 3D

I make a comment about the demo is hopefully patched, long before it was released

...And that's just the first two pages. There's 14 full pages.

You're either iliterate or an idiot who can't even click on a simple link provided by Calis. Maybe a combination of the two? Either way, the fact that you were spoon fed something that simple and still managed to fail to accomplish the task only reflects poorly on you.

KTHXBYE.

 

[Calis]

"Although the reviewer is a console player and he says silly things like “It’s a shame that a console version isn’t planned.” it’s nice to see that he appreciates the game and sees its strengths. "

"Yeah, I wonder why they look 3D. "

"Somebody only played with a Chaotic Good party, didn't they? "

"...just like you can't do everything you can do in paintball with a first person shooter. I'm not sure what the hell the point of that even is. "

IMO, these are about as snide as the remarks posted with negative reviews of the game. They're all from ones I consider positive. I certainly didn't see much in the way of praising the reviewers for their insight when all they've done is give the game a high score.

 

[Gromnir]

Try these, numbnuts:

“ToEE wins an award, I make fun of the award “

THAT is your example of a criticism of toee and/or the review? HA!

“Spazmo makes fun of ToEE's bugs following a postive review”

yeah, which bugs he blamed all on Atari… gotta remembers the focus of the zealotry here. is pro Cainism.

“Spazmo mentions ToEE could have stood more time to bake”

again, hardly scathing criticism, and again directed not at developer. is much qualified comment.

etc.

is hardly stuff on par with criticisms we seen of other games, and if you is trying to convince us that such comments has been directed at all reviews evenly then you is as nuts as vd... not even gotta try and respond to calis' weak-arsed examples.

this is the best you got?

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Spazmo]

There's a good reason for that. Other games--say, KOTOR or HOTU--aren't as good as ToEE. It's pretty easy to criticise games that are terrible CRPGs like BioWare's stuff. It becomes harder when an actual good game like ToEE comes along.

 

[Volourn]

Please. *cough* bias *cough*

 

[Ausir]

Well, it doesn't mean that there isn't anything to criticize ToEE about - there is, and it's not only Atari's fault.

 

[Spazmo]

Please. *cough* bias *cough*

YES, bias. I think it's pretty fucking obvious we don't like BioWare's goddamn trash. And I think it's equally clear that we're fairly fond of Troika'a games. I'll admit I've cut TIm Cain some slack in the past because he's Tim Cain, but the fact (erm, I should say opinion, really) remains that Troika makes better games than BioWare. That's the opinion held by this site's staff. That's the editorial slant we're going to present. Rest assured, if Troika makes a bad game, we're zing them for it (our staff has been fairly vocal in criticising many aspects of ToEE and Arcanum, for instance). If BioWare makes a good game, we'll praise them for it. Saint, Exitium, Vault Dweller and I have all played through KotOR and we all pretty much agree that it's a decent enough game if not a great RPG.

Now then, would you cut the condescending, oh-you-guys-are-so-darned-cute bullshit, Gromnir? The IPLY boards were dumb enough to be impressed by the bullshit your sewage plant of a mind pours out. I'm not quite as impressed.

 

[Volourn]

Yeah, you've criticized both thos egames; but it's always the publisher's fault.

Examples - Arcanum: You say it has horrible combat; but it's the publisher's fault because it forced RT combat. Sorry, it's not the publisher's fault that Troika doesn't have the skill to make RT combat work. Tsk, tsk. What's funny is I actually *liked* Arcanum's combat for the most part though I agree RT combat in it is way too fast to do any thinking at all.

TOEE - The writing sucks most say; but that's Atari's fault because of the silly word limit or the pnp mod's fault. Uhuh... Whatever. It's not the word limit's fault that TOEE's writing quality sucks. It's also not the mod's fault as the whle idea behind pnp modules is to leave everything but the basic premise open for the dm tod etermine. Hence, it is Troika's fualt there are very few interetsing npcs (both jojnable and otherwise) in the game.

I won't say much about you or VD; but it is a myth started by SP himself that he likes KOTOR. his review, though well written, shows otherwise. :D

You aren't only bias; you are also faithfully blind to Mr. Cain's fault and blame his games' weaknesses on "outside" forces". Heck, I've been called a BIo fanboy; but at least when I criticize a BIO game; I criticize BIO; not some "outside forces" when I find soemthing in their games I dislike.

Plus, face it, is there even one person who has had a differing opinion to the site's mainers that hasn't been labeled all sorts of names? I doubt there's more than a handful if any at all. Face it, you guys accuse others of being brainwashed fnaboys when you are foten clearly guilty of this infraction as well.

That all said, you are probably wonderin' why I post here. Well.. SP has a quote of mine that illustrates why. To further that, it's because inspite of your biasnesses there's at least a number of the regulars here who I can debate at least reasonably with for the most part (SP & VD are the two best examples of this).

In conclsuion, you may be fanatical Trpoika fanboys; but you are debatable fnaboys which is a *rare* thing - outside of the frivilous yet often humourous insults which I gladly soak up and take part in.

Enjoy.



P.S. Ignore this post. It's sponsored by Nonsense Inc. :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

but you are debatable fnaboys which is a *rare* thing - outside of the frivilous yet often humourous insults which I gladly soak up and take part in.
twisted:

Fuck you and stop using emoticons before I send a clown to your house to sodomize you with a crowbar.

asshat.

 

[Volourn]

The address is 644 Lakeshore Dr Unit 36. I'll be waiting.

 

[triCritical]

Yeah, you've criticized both thos egames; but it's always the publisher's fault.

Examples - Arcanum: You say it has horrible combat; but it's the publisher's fault because it forced RT combat. Sorry, it's not the publisher's fault that Troika doesn't have the skill to make RT combat work. Tsk, tsk. What's funny is I actually *liked* Arcanum's combat for the most part though I agree RT combat in it is way too fast to do any thinking at all.

Actually not correct. I have never seen a hybrid combat system work better then Arcanum's in a CRPG. That said comparing Arcanum to a purely TB game, or a purely RT game you know its going to be worse because compromises and sacrifices have to be made. Afterall even people like Josh were admitting to this during the development of FO3... Its not like it is a surprise. However, the generalization that hybrid combat sucks compared to a dedicated single system, can apply to Arcanum.

TOEE - The writing sucks most say; but that's Atari's fault because of the silly word limit or the pnp mod's fault. Uhuh... Whatever. It's not the word limit's fault that TOEE's writing quality sucks. It's also not the mod's fault as the whle idea behind pnp modules is to leave everything but the basic premise open for the dm tod etermine. Hence, it is Troika's fualt there are very few interetsing npcs (both jojnable and otherwise) in the game.

I don't think the writing sucks, which comprosis much more I assume, then dialogue option. Just the dialogue as a whole. It felt like everyone was making really short sentences to save money on their long distance bills. It felt unatural and very robotic. It makes perfect sense that limited in their word count.

As for the NPC's, there weren't many interesting NPC's. JA2 had a lot of interesting NPC's.

I won't say much about you or VD; but it is a myth started by SP himself that he likes KOTOR. his review, though well written, shows otherwise.

Most reviews for overhyped games sound like friggin commercials. I think its a good when someone actually points out faults with a product, but still says they like it. One of the main reason I do not like reviews. Honestly, I think SP felt he had to give KotOR a positive outcome because otherwise he would have just been labeled a Bio-hater. For the most part there is little good with the game beside its story telling nature, dialogue and general polish.

You aren't only bias; you are also faithfully blind to Mr. Cain's fault and blame his games' weaknesses on "outside" forces". Heck, I've been called a BIo fanboy; but at least when I criticize a BIO game; I criticize BIO; not some "outside forces" when I find soemthing in their games I dislike.

Purist for no reason. Atari's name is on the box too. Number one complaint, item didn't have good enough description. Reply, well it was either take it out here, or less dialogue. Considering that the dialogue was already down to three word sentences I think item description was a good candidate. Whose fault is this? Whose fault is SecureROM? Whose fault is broken quest due to censorship? A lot of what people complained about with ToEE had to do with Atair. There is no denying this. This is not to say that Atari was at fault for all the rule bugs, other then their lack of QA, but they did not put them in there.

OTOH, my complaints about KotOR, deal directly with the design of the game itself. Mainly horrible gameplay, meaningless dialogue choices, scripted events, console action game like levels and weak character development coupled with fairly unbalanced characters. I won't get into the pathfinding and lack of AI. What irritates me most is that these are the things that most reviewers really go off on with the lesser hyped games and go completely ignored with the more hyped games. Another reason why I thought St's bashing was fairly warranted.

Plus, face it, is there even one person who has had a differing opinion to the site's mainers that hasn't been labeled all sorts of names? I doubt there's more than a handful if any at all. Face it, you guys accuse others of being brainwashed fnaboys when you are foten clearly guilty of this infraction as well.

You get called names wherever you go.

 

[DemonKing]

I think it is a little simplistic to blame the publisher for everything you don't like about a game, and praise the developer for everything that is done well.

For example, Troika did a great job with the TB combat and graphics in TOEE, no doubt about it, but as has been pointed out, not imposing a word limit on a game's text does not make bad writing better. If the writing is bad, then in fact I would rather have less of it!

Actually some games could have done with a word limit! PST and KOTOR come to mind as being perhaps a little too talky for the medium. I feel like having to pause the gameplay for a series of long-winded dialogues doesn't help the immersion factor much.

I had plenty of word limits imposed on me at uni. and to be honest having to keep myself focused and ensure that what I did write was not wasted space helped a lot, in some cases, with *improving* my work.

 

[Voss]

when they have to cut useful info (like item descriptions) to match a word count, theres a serious problem.

....

word limit on a game's text does not make bad writing better

&

word limits imposed on me at uni. and to be honest having to keep myself focused and ensure that what I did write was not wasted space helped a lot, in some cases, with *improving* my work

Does it make bad writing better, or not? You need to decide which of these is actually your opinion.

PST? With a word count?
Blashphemer :!: :evil:

 

[Volourn]

Tri: Thanks for proving my point. Any negative with Troika's games are the publishers' fault. If that's all you were gonna say; you should have just said it instead of wasting the other words. Your post there need a max word count.

 

[DemonKing]

Does it make bad writing better, or not? You need to decide which of these is actually your opinion.

Hey - you're assuming my uni stuff was bad to begin with - I said it helped to improve it, not that a word count can make any old crap into cream.

 

[Voss]

no, I'm assuming that to make something better is the same thing as improving it.