Gothic 3 is the best RPG ever

[someone else]

No you aren't on hard, and you get knock down when your health goes to 0 on medium or easy, what did you expect to happen later on, and you get kill Orcs patrol, and free Cape Dun quests in location that is before the ranger (if you go the way that are advised to go by the NPC to Reddock) so your Ranger theory is nonsense. Others are fighting with you, but there is more Orcs then allies so you will be attacked in 1v1 or 2v1 or 3v1 anyway.

In vanilla, the ranger quest was an early introduction to orcs where you have the aid of a stong npc, in CP it turns into you helping the npc against terrible odds. Also, the quest is more of a likely to do-at-the-start then a optional-out-of-the-way-side-quest, the orcs were blocking your way and the ranger is there to help you clear them.

Not in my opinion. The introduction to orcs was given much earlier with the quests in the first rebel camp (Reddock). And the rangers asked you to help them against the orcs, not the other way around. They needed your help. And I remember that the ranger companion was really needed for me to kill the three orcs with CP (they are stronger orcs than the usual ones from before).

Look! An argument on whether an introduction with orcs really means an early introduction to orcs on the Codex! When does an introduction start and an early introduction end?

The orcs around the 2nd city and hangin out near the start were not aggro, you can safely walk up to them and they chat with you. The orcs with the ranger were aggro and might be the first aggressive orcs other than the start(unless you go north) at least that is what I recall, they might be aggro only with the ranger, by this time the player is still green and this is why I consider it one of the early fights and the word introduction is wrongly used(I used an introduction, one of many, it was in the first 5% of the game, itsn't it a no-brainer that a player would have encountered orcs at the start already? Obviously I know that at the start you fight orcs, there are orcs in the 2nd town, there are orcs with bundles of weapons, there are orcs with a blacksmith, there are orcs in my underpants. I was talking about the early game and all those are early introductions, as I have already said, the word "early fights" would be better, why are you continuing with this then, when I already said the ranger encounter is an early fight, not the first encounter? What constitutes an end to introduction? 1 orc? 10 orcs? 1 battle? 10 battles? You can argue that the introduction to orcs ends when you kill your first orc, isn't this a pointless argument? Maybe you can call it a not-so-early-introduction?) Look I already suspect that you might argue that you meet orcs at Cape Dun and other areas, which is why I said there:

There are also other places where you are introduced to orcs depending on where you go. Some of them only KO you but this one kills. Maybe I should use the word early fights instead of introduction. Happy?

From the start I should have posted that you encounter orcs in other places complete with detailed listing of all orc encounters but I didn't know you will be so pedantic and argue over this.

Yes a player will already know how strong orcs are, they may be avoiding fighting orcs until they are stronger, but these are aggro and yes they can be avoided. You have to find the Paladin's sword from Cape Dun if you want his help so liberating the 2nd town is likely to be delayed, the early battles against orcs are very hard so I'm taking a situation where a player avoids liberating 2nd town and killing orc patrols such as those hanging around the weapons in the Reddock quest and then they meet some aggros and a ranger who helps you.

What I meant was: you start with an easy fight where you are unkillable(unless you are on hard on CP), move on to meet other orcs who are non-aggro, then meet a ranger who helps you kill some aggro orcs blocking your way (at this time the player is still 5% into the game and still green), if you don't accept his help you have to fight the orcs as they are on the same route blocking your path to that farming city and are already generated even if you do not take the quest (unless they are non-aggro). This is what I meant by the ranger is there to help you, not necessary by design. Of course you can avoid them, but that is not what I'm talking about, the CP just makes that harder because it makes some changes to the orcs or armour or something, which alters the balance of the encounter.

There was no issue over whether a player knows how hard orcs are nor is it the first time he fought orcs and these orcs are harder, doesn't that make them another early introduction to harder orcs? Are we going to argue over how strong these orcs are? The issue was CP vs original and not how when was the first time the player fought orcs. CP strength-ed the orcs but relatively not for the ranger, the player nor the npcs that join the player. I can go on on how the first fight was changed in the CP, before CP it was easier and that was my point (it was easy esp with your companions), whether you can be killed on hard with CP is irrelevant unless that is the only mode of gameplay.

Morkar, did you play before CP btw?
Is this clearer now? Do you see from my point of view? Shall we continue this argument over how early do we meet orcs over an unofficial patch over a game that we like?
I was not aware or I have forgotten that on hard you can get killed at the start, but then what about the companions? Are they killable on hard too?

As response to "G3 /w CP is great game regardless of what unpatched G3 was like."?

Oh, you're trolling. Nevermind then....

wat
I was pointing out the poor changes in the CP compared to vanilla, not all are good but removing the stun-lock is a major positive. I consider unpatch G3 a fun game by itself, but when an unofficial patch makes changes to the gameplay instead of just patching bugs you get complains, some of them can be turned off but...
Look the arguments over this are silly, which is why I'm complaining that this is like arguing against fanboys, when I mentioned that you can run away and come back later and the orc regains his health, people ask me how does this help? Isn't it common sense that you could kill off his allies. Or "boohoo can't complete every quest go play Skyrim". How about if someone makes an unofficial patch to Fallout, makes some balancing changes and I point out: "hey originally it was much easier, they altered this quest which is an early introduction to supermutants" then someone who hasn't played the original goes "boohoo can't complete every quest in game, go play counterstrike."and "you meet supermutants earlier u noob" How does that behaviour sounds to you? Should not the issue be with the unofficial patch? Why drag decline of RPGs or players into this?

No I don't take your insults personally, I just find your behaviour fanboyish. Do you go through people's post and go: This is wrong! Oh this is wrong as well! A line by line VD rebuttal, try understanding the poster's pov first, rather than jump at any perceived errors and point out the obvious and end up with strawman arguments. What is your motivation for this pointless argument? Is it not G3 w/CP is awesome, those who don't agree don't know how to play! Sucks! Are stupid! Decline in rpgs! All these not mentioned by you and Chuck Norris in this thread?
Oh I mashed up some of the replies, Morkar not all are addressed to you.
Pointless arguments, nit-picking over semnatics and general G3 CP apologists. Really, "an early introduction to orcs" and you get "no u r wrong!!! You fight orcs at the start!" and this turns into a tldr.
fanboys over games!

 

[Kraszu]

Look! An argument on whether an introduction with orcs really means an early introduction to orcs on the Codex! When does an introduction start and an early introduction end?

Introduction is when you fight with them first, you are saying that introduction is when you fight them at second or very possibly at third or later encounter.

What constitutes an end to introduction? 1 orc? 10 orcs? 1 battle? 10 battles? You can argue that the introduction to orcs ends when you kill your first orc, isn't this a pointless argument?

No it isn't, and definition is simple, introduction is when you first fight with them, and it ends when the fight ends.

Yes a player will already know how strong orcs are, they may be avoiding fighting orcs until they are stronger, but these are aggro and yes they can be avoided. You have to find the Paladin's sword from Cape Dun if you want his help so liberating the 2nd town is likely to be delayed, the early battles against orcs are very hard so I'm taking a situation where a player avoids liberating 2nd town and killing orc patrols such as those hanging around the weapons in the Reddock quest and then they meet some aggros and a ranger who helps you.

So the player needs introduction to how strong Orcs are, when he already knows how strong they are? Makes no sense.

No, this is the quest that you get after liberation, it would make more sense the other way around, but it isn't so.

What I meant was: you start with an easy fight where you are unkillable(unless you are on hard on CP), move on to meet other orcs who are non-aggro, then meet a ranger who helps you kill some orcs blocking your way, if you don't accept his help you have to fight the orcs as they are on the same route blocking your path to that farming city and are already generated even if you do not take the quest (unless they are non-aggro). This is what I meant by the ranger is there to help you, not necessary by design. Of course you can avoid them, but that is not what I'm talking about, the CP just makes that harder because it makes some changes to the orcs or armour or something, which alters the balance of the encounter.

CP makes the Orcs harder yes. Being unkillable doesn't change anything as you get knock down so you know how much dmg the Orcs do. Goithic 3 vanilla isn't balanced, the last thing that you do is balance the game, and the game was rushed.

There was no issue over whether a player knows how hard orcs are nor is it the first time he fought orcs and these orcs are harder, doesn't that make them another early introduction to harder orcs? Are we going to argue over how strong these orcs are? The issue was CP vs original and not how when was the first time the player fought orcs. CP strength-ed the orcs but relatively not for the ranger, the player nor the npcs that join the player. I can go on on how the first fight was changed in the CP, before CP it was easy and that was my point, arguing that you can be killed on hard with CP is besides the point.

How many introduction to the same enemy you need?

AB makes the Orcs rangers, and all humanoids stronger as well, but there is only one ranger, and couple Orcs.

Is this clearer now? Do you see from my point of view? Shall we continue this argument over how early do we meet orcs over an unofficial patch over a game that we like?
I was not aware or I have forgotten that on hard you can get killed at the start, but then what about the companions? Are they killable on hard too?

Your crew is immortal, but there is less of them then Orcs, so you end up fighting Orcs yourself 1v1 or worse in the first encounter.

I was pointing out the poor changes in the CP compared to vanilla, not all are good but removing the stun-lock is a major positive. I consider unpatch G3 a fun game by itself, but when an unofficial patch makes changes to the gameplay instead of just patching bugs you get complains, some of them can be turned off but...

Patches had always made balance changes. I would be complaining about the game if those changes weren't made.

No I don't take your insults personally, I just find your behaviour fanboyish. Do you go through people's post and go: This is wrong! Oh this is wrong as well! A line by line VD rebuttal, try understanding the poster's pov first, rather than jump at any perceived errors and point out the obvious and end up with strawman arguments. What is your motivation for this pointless argument? Is it not G3 w/CP is awesome, those who don't agree don't know how to play! Sucks! Are stupid! Decline in rpgs! All these not mentioned by you and Chuck Norris in this thread?

Liking the harder difficulty makes me fanboyish? I defend changes that I like, not because I defend everything, there were described problems with G3 that I had agreed with in this topic.

Oh I mashed up some of the replies, Morkar not all are addressed to you.
Pointless arguments, nit-picking over semnatics and general G3 CP apologists. Really, "an early introduction to orcs" and you get "no u r wrong!!! You fight orcs at the start!" and this turns into a tldr.

It is you that had twisted semantics where introduction to how strong Orcs are isn't the first fight with Orcs.

 

[someone else]

Look! An argument on whether an introduction with orcs really means an early introduction to orcs on the Codex! When does an introduction start and an early introduction end?

Introduction is when you fight with them first, you are saying that introduction is when you fight them at second or very possibly at third or later encounter.

I already said many times that the words "early fight" is better. Why do you keep arguing over the usage of the word "introduction"?

What constitutes an end to introduction? 1 orc? 10 orcs? 1 battle? 10 battles? You can argue that the introduction to orcs ends when you kill your first orc, isn't this a pointless argument?

No it isn't, and definition is simple, introduction is when you first fight with them, and it ends when the fight ends.

I already said many times that the words "early fight" is better. Why do you keep arguing over the usage of the word "introduction"?

Yes a player will already know how strong orcs are, they may be avoiding fighting orcs until they are stronger, but these are aggro and yes they can be avoided. You have to find the Paladin's sword from Cape Dun if you want his help so liberating the 2nd town is likely to be delayed, the early battles against orcs are very hard so I'm taking a situation where a player avoids liberating 2nd town and killing orc patrols such as those hanging around the weapons in the Reddock quest and then they meet some aggros and a ranger who helps you.

So the player needs introduction to how strong Orcs are, when he already knows how strong they are? Makes no sense.

No, this is the quest that you get after liberation, it would make more sense the other way around, but it isn't so.

My mistake. I had to check the faq, I thought he needed the sword before he agrees to the liberation.

What I meant was: you start with an easy fight where you are unkillable(unless you are on hard on CP), move on to meet other orcs who are non-aggro, then meet a ranger who helps you kill some orcs blocking your way, if you don't accept his help you have to fight the orcs as they are on the same route blocking your path to that farming city and are already generated even if you do not take the quest (unless they are non-aggro). This is what I meant by the ranger is there to help you, not necessary by design. Of course you can avoid them, but that is not what I'm talking about, the CP just makes that harder because it makes some changes to the orcs or armour or something, which alters the balance of the encounter.

CP makes the Orcs harder yes. Being unkillable doesn't change anything as you get knock down so you know how much dmg the Orcs do. Goithic 3 vanilla isn't balanced, the last thing that you do is balance the game, and the game was rushed.

Being unkillable makes it easier, what does knowing how much damage orc's do have to do with anything? Did I say a player doesn't know how strong orcs are when they meet the orcs with rangers? No I did not.
I wouldn't say the CP is more balanced by making orcs stronger, especially at the start.

There was no issue over whether a player knows how hard orcs are nor is it the first time he fought orcs and these orcs are harder, doesn't that make them another early introduction to harder orcs? Are we going to argue over how strong these orcs are? The issue was CP vs original and not how when was the first time the player fought orcs. CP strength-ed the orcs but relatively not for the ranger, the player nor the npcs that join the player. I can go on on how the first fight was changed in the CP, before CP it was easy and that was my point, arguing that you can be killed on hard with CP is besides the point.

How many introduction to the same enemy you need?

I already said many times that the words "early fight" is better. Why do you keep arguing over the usage of the word "introduction"?

Is this clearer now? Do you see from my point of view? Shall we continue this argument over how early do we meet orcs over an unofficial patch over a game that we like?
I was not aware or I have forgotten that on hard you can get killed at the start, but then what about the companions? Are they killable on hard too?

Your crew is immortal, but there is less of them then Orcs, so you end up fighting Orcs yourself 1v1 or worse in the first encounter.

Already said that pre-CP it is very different, which is why I said it is easy, which is why it has less of an impact to the player. But this has nothing to do with the topic, I did not say that a player does not know how strong orcs are from the fight.

I was pointing out the poor changes in the CP compared to vanilla, not all are good but removing the stun-lock is a major positive. I consider unpatch G3 a fun game by itself, but when an unofficial patch makes changes to the gameplay instead of just patching bugs you get complains, some of them can be turned off but...

Patches had always made balance changes. I would be complaining about the game if those changes weren't made.

Fan-patches are subjective when it comes to balance(even patches made by deveploers), an odd thing to say when you did not play the original.

No I don't take your insults personally, I just find your behaviour fanboyish. Do you go through people's post and go: This is wrong! Oh this is wrong as well! A line by line VD rebuttal, try understanding the poster's pov first, rather than jump at any perceived errors and point out the obvious and end up with strawman arguments. What is your motivation for this pointless argument? Is it not G3 w/CP is awesome, those who don't agree don't know how to play! Sucks! Are stupid! Decline in rpgs! All these not mentioned by you and Chuck Norris in this thread?

Liking the harder difficulty makes me fanboyish? I defend changes that I like, not because I defend everything, there were described problems with G3 that I had agreed with in this topic.

More to do with the how you write. Look at Chuck Norris in this thread for a good example of fanboy.

Oh I mashed up some of the replies, Morkar not all are addressed to you.
Pointless arguments, nit-picking over semnatics and general G3 CP apologists. Really, "an early introduction to orcs" and you get "no u r wrong!!! You fight orcs at the start!" and this turns into a tldr.

It is you that had twisted semantics where introduction to how strong Orcs are isn't the first fight with Orcs.

I already said many times that the words "early fight" is better. Why do you keep arguing over the usage of the word "introduction"?
For the last time I did not say the the fight with the rangers is where a player fights orcs for the first time, that is common sense, rather that it is an early fight with aggro orcs in the early stages of the game, where the encounter should not be difficult for a new player, there is nothing about player not knowing how strong orcs are but rather that the player may not be good enough as it is still early game. A simple thing but you keep harping about introduction to orcs. Or are you just arguing about my poor usage of the word introduction. Then you are arguing over pointless things.

Will this turn into a retarded "you can't stealth aliens!" thread where you keep pointing out: "that is not an introduction to orcs!" and I go "introduction is a poor choice of words"
I've met my quota for ridiculous internet arguments for this year.

 

[Kraszu]

I completely disagree that getting some quests that are above your level is bad world design in open world crpg, it makes the game more interesting, and this encounter with the ranger should be possible to win even if hard, and if he dies, and you run then so be it, you don't need to complete all quest, it is more interesting to play with consequences of how well you did, and what you did (And G3 is designed in such a way that you can finish it, but you can make it harder or easier to yourself, unless you are making really bad decisions constantly you will be able to complete it). If all the quest would follow linear difficulty patter, then openness of the world wouldn't be used, now you can overcome odds that are against you, and you can plan on when to do quest, and you judge yourself if you are strong enough or not, also the use of scrolls is more important that way. Also linear difficulty progression to me kills the anticipation, you know then that you can't encounter anything that you will not be able to handle.

There is also the problem with freeing 3 settlements (sans Ardea, Gotha, and Varant)= triggering aggro of leaders, such mechanism isn't bad in itself but it should be explained. Adding suspicious action stat could do it. So you would have REP, and suspicious actions stat SA, the first would trigger help from the faction, the second various possible negative events, triggering leaders aggro at say 75%.

 

[someone else]

I did not say that getting some quests that are above your level is bad world design in open world crpg. My issue with that quest is more to do with the probably unintentional increase in difficulty from the original in fan patch than wanting all quest to be completable at anytime. I have no problems with quests above character level but that particular one irk me because it was a newbie quest, I killed them anyway but I find the increased difficulty newbie unfriendly. The issue is that quest, not difficult quests in general, the same issue with the starting fight.
The troll killing quest for example, does not bother me. There is also the delay in liberation but then I think I sided with the orcs eventually, but had to kill everyone as I went the kill everyone path.
Again the issue is less to do with difficult quests in games but changes by fan patches.

 

[Kraszu]

I did not say that getting some quests that are above your level is bad world design in open world crpg. My issue with that quest is more to do with the probably unintentional increase in difficulty from the original in fan patch than wanting all quest to be completable at anytime. I have no problems with quests above character level but that particular one irk me because it was a newbie quest, I killed them anyway but I find the increased difficulty bad.

You get multiple quest before that are about as hard or harder like killing Orc patrols, killing Ortega, and freeing Cape Dun. Sounds to me that the only problem is with your expectations not being meet, rather then with the new difficulty in itself. You had expected the Rangers to be imba but they weren't.

 

[someone else]

Some of the quests are easy to skip, I was after all assuming that the player is putting off liberating Cape Dun and the orc patrols(those guys are non-aggro remember?) and then meet up with the ranger.
I expected the rebels at the start of the game to put up a better fight actually, why should I expect the rangers to be imba? Try playing the first fight without the fan patch and your perspective will change.
Of course, of course to you the problem is me, not the fan patch. That is the fanboy I was talking about, that and that me expecting rangers to be imba, shouldn't the problem be with the orcs? Each and everyone has his own opinion on balance, I disagree with the fan patch, probably because I have a prior perspective. What will you come up next I wonder? Can't you accept that others don't like parts of the fan patch? Quite the apologist are you?

 

[Kraszu]

Some of the quests are easy to skip, I was after all assuming that the player is putting off liberating Cape Dun and the orc patrols(those guys are non-aggro remember?) and then meet up with the ranger.
I expected the rebels at the start of the game to put up a better fight actually, why should I expect the rangers to be imba? Try playing the first fight without the fan patch and your perspective will change.
Of course, of course to you the problem is me, not the fan patch. That is the fanboy I was talking about, that and that me expecting rangers to be imba, shouldn't the problem be with the orcs? Each and everyone has his own opinion on balance, I disagree with the fan patch, probably because I have a prior perspective. What will you come up next I wonder? Can't you accept that others don't like parts of the fan patch? Quite the apologist are you?

Great logic I don't like x, you like x, you a fanboy. You had said yourself that the problem was with your expectations not with the game balance, so yes the problem is with you not with the patch. Also Ortega is aggro, and those Orcs are hardly blocking a passage as they are on the side, and you can go around them easily. You don't even trigger them if you go close to the other side of the passage. There is a problem with not being able to cancel the quest, and send him back after seeing how many Orcs there are but that is it.

One ranger kicking 3 Orcs seems is imba no? Why would you expect rebels to put up a better fight, and win 3vs1 when they had lost the war, and when Rangers were pushed back from they homes by Orcs?

 

[someone else]

Great logic I don't like x, you like x, you a fanboy. You had said yourself that the problem was with your expectations not with the game balance, so yes the problem is with you not with the patch.

Yep the only problem is me, glad that is settled. You keep bringing in more and more irrelevant points, where did I say the ranger should kill 3 orcs? And now you want to argue about rebels putting up a good fight when I mentioned pre-CP they put up a better fight? Really? Do you want to argue with everything? Ortega as well? And ignoring that what I have said earlier, I already said the you can avoid the orcs. Fun arguing over a fan-made patch isn't it? Does that make you a fan-patch-fanboy? Does it make you happy to proof that the fanpatch is right and I am wrong?

Ok, the fan patch is good, I disagree with some of the changes but that is only my opinion, not a fact. Hey I said that 3 pages ago too. In caps.
All praise the community patch for Gothic 3! May those who say otherwise be damned to eternal arguments with fanboys!
Are you happy now? Can we drop this ridiculous argument? All this over a ranger and 3 orcs? Really? What if I said I hate dragons in CP? Will this go on for 10 more pages? This will teach me not to reply to people with the game's avatar.

 

[Kraszu]

Great logic I don't like x, you like x, you a fanboy. You had said yourself that the problem was with your expectations not with the game balance, so yes the problem is with you not with the patch.

Yep the only problem is me, glad that is settled. You keep bringing in more and more irrelevant points, where did I say the ranger should kill 3 orcs? And now you want to argue about rebels putting up a good fight when I mentioned pre-CP they put up a better fight? Really? Do you want to argue with everything? Ortega as well? And ignoring that what I have said earlier, I already said the you can avoid the orcs. Fun arguing over a fan-made patch isn't it? Does that make you a fan-patch-fanboy? Does it make you happy to proof that the fanpatch is right and I am wrong?

You had said that the ranger had kicked the patrol before CP, the patrol was 3 Orcs.

Ok, the fan patch is good, I disagree with some of the changes but that is only my opinion, not a fact. Hey I said that 3 pages ago too. In caps.
All praise the community patch for Gothic 3! May those who say otherwise be damned to eternal arguments with fanboys!
Are you happy now? Can we drop this ridiculous argument?

You are the only one who press this ridiculous strawman argument of calling me a fanboy, and then you complain about strawman arguments.

 

[someone else]

You had said that the ranger had kicked the patrol before CP, the patrol was 3 Orcs.

Me:

In vanilla, the ranger quest was an early fight with orcs where you have the aid of a stong npc, in CP it turns into you helping the npc against terrible odds

You:

One ranger kicking 3 Orcs seems is imba no?

What are we arguing about? Whether one ranger is strong enough to fight 3 orcs? I only said he helps. Maybe you should find someone else (no really, someone else other than someone else) to argue about that. I'm not really into rangers vs orcs, maybe he is a PowerRanger and those are weak Moria orcs, with arthritis. Maybe he can take on 1 and a half orc?

 

[Kraszu]

Meh I did found him helpful, 3vs2 aren't great odds, he didn't seem weaker then 1 Orc. This is a trivial thing anyway, at worse you could let him die and not get little Exp for the quest, and for one more quest.

I think that the expectation of being able to do everything, and never fail at anything simplifies the games. You say that you are fine with failing at other quest but what is the difference really? The game will never be balanced in such a way that only the quest that you find ok to be too hard will be so, so all that is left game design wise are linear games, or level scaling. Failing now, and then should be part of the experience, it would make the games much more interesting.

 

[someone else]

I didn't expect to do everything, you extrapolate too much from my displeasure from the patch. I don't like the starting fight and that has no quest tied to it, nor does it have to do with expectation of doing everything. We already went through this a few posts above o_O ... I have played Gothic since the first game, poke weak monsters till you are stronger, I understand that. It uses what I call geographical spawning.

 

[FUDU]

Cool. Two chimps throwing shit at each other. Gets popcorn.

 

[someone else]

Just another day on the Codex. My right hand smells from poop-throwing.
Sadly we did not go all out in poop-flinging.
I recommend the Great List Of RPGCodex Drama if you want quality Codex entertainment.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-great-list-of-rpgcodex-drama.44030/

 

[eric__s]

When was the last time the fan patch was updated? I played Gothic 3 twice, once on release and once just before Risen came out. I couldn't finish it either time but I got pretty far. I was so excited for Gothic 3 when it first came out that I got a new computer I knew could run it. It was so disappointing because the game was basically unplayable on release. Even beyond the terribly broken gameplay, there was so much that was just dumb in the game. The world was boring and Nordmar was the worst thing ever and you didn't feel that connection to the world that you did in 1 and 2.

What makes Gothic remarkable and compelling is the feeling of oppression and desperation you get in the earlier titles. You're a prisoner in this confined world in both; in 1 you're in this literal prison with brutal laws and a shitty but fascinating society and in 2 you're trapped on this island and you spend the whole game pretty much trying to get off. 3 wasn't really like that. You weren't trapped and although the orcs had taken human civilization hostage, they seemed reasonable and sometimes even likable. It wasn't really a big deal. The group social dynamics and hierarchy are what made the original Gothics interesting - rising to the top of a group from the bottom and constantly proving yourself in a world that was actively out to get you. There was nothing to rise to the top of in Gothic 3. You could become a ranger or help the orcs or rebels or whatever else, and there were quests you had to do before you could do these things, but it wasn't really the same as in the original Gothics. You were an equal and an outsider in 3, you never become particularly invested in the goals of any faction.

The worst part for me was how disconnected you felt from your friends from the earlier games.

HELLO. IT IS ME, GORN. I AM YOUR FRIEND, GORN. DO YOU REMEMBER ME? I AM GORN, YOUR FRIEND. GORN.

- I don't remember you.
- Hmm, I think I know you.

Lee was the worst. His story seemed so big and meaningful in the other games and you thought it would crescendo in this, but it just sort of fizzles out as an afterthought.

Gothic 3 was probably the biggest disappointment ever for me. It's just not a Gothic game if the world isn't constantly trying to crush your nuts with a vice grip.

 

[el Supremo]

The worst part for me was how disconnected you felt from your friends from the earlier games.

HELLO. IT IS ME, GORN. I AM YOUR FRIEND, GORN. DO YOU REMEMBER ME? I AM GORN, YOUR FRIEND. GORN.

- I don't remember you.
- Hmm, I think I know you.

Gorn, in Gothic 2, was slicing Lizard People so fast, that I had hard time keeping peace with him. Gorn in Gothic 3, he had trouble to kill single Savenger...

The main Gothic 3 problem are boring, unispired quests.Once you find all the barrels, casks, and parcels, and gvie them to the respective NPCs; have bitten everyone on the arena, killed 10 specified "hungry wolfs" and 15 "angry boars"; have stolen everything worth stealing, got desired reputations - it is it. Now go to the next town, and to the exactly the same stuff again. Then again. Three or four towns, it was still fun. A fifth one... argh. Gothic 1 also got some "give water to X number of guys" or "sell X amount of weed". But it was funny, and it fited well into the storyline..

Gothic 3: "Be a good lad, and find 10 parcels with furs, laying around here, and deliver them to Trader Bob, he usualy is sitting in front of his shop, ten meters away." made me grind my teeth, since I have completed this quest more times then I care to remember..

And forget about next chapters, that should give you a reason to re-visit the location. To find some chapter 2's advanced quests. The worst thing, main storyline is YET-ANOTHER-FETCH-QUEST. Just this quest is involving the entire map. All the towns. And when you manage to gather all that junk, when you would expect the game to open up, it is over. You have won the game!.

Not even the ending dungeon crawl, like the first two Gothics had.

 

[CorpseZeb]

... and this is why some people claims that G3 is broken or/and uncompleted beyond repair magic of any CP. While it is true in many ways, even that empty shell of previous G's player experience, can give you a good, quality time, beyond scope of any modern "rpg" games. And this fact should be considered also. Personally I had a good time with G3, mainly because of freedom of player actions and unforgiving fight mechanics, but without that unique thrills, ambitions and anticipation "what next" of G1.