How come no one but the people of the Codex

[Falksi]

Emotional platitudes are no more a basis for discussion with other people than are logical tautologies. If we do not rationalize about our experiences and articulate them in a manner that others can understand, we can never relate those experiences to others, and that begs the question, "Why talk of our experiences at all?"

Eloquent but missing the point. That being that Morrowind was designed to absorb and immerse the player into another world, and give them a great sense of wonder & exploration. It nails that superbly, and folk picking apart other aspects of it miss the point really.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Why are we ragging on a guy who likes Skyrim as an animal hunting, looking at shit and sneaking simulator?

He just likes a animal hunting, looking at shit and sneaking simulator. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, but Morrowind is better because it is old.

Fuck, the Codex can feel like some weird cult at times.

Now this might sound a bit weird to you, stop me if I'm getting to complicated for you brain to handle and I'll take it slower, but... of all the people who have been mentioning the merits of Morrowind... I haven't actually seen anyone mention "because it's old". I do hope you don't take too much offence if I just say "Good God you're a prick" and leave it at that?

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Now this might sound a bit weird to you, stop me if I'm getting to complicated for you brain to handle and I'll take it slower, but... of all the people who have been mentioning the merits of Morrowind... I haven't actually seen anyone mention "because it's old". I do hope you don't take too much offence if I just say "Good God you're a prick" and leave it at that?

It is fucking implied you nimrod.

It's always fucking implied here on the Codex that OLD = complex, even if it's not true. Could you craft weapons and armor in Morrowind, hmm? Could you catch butterflies with your hands and use their wings as alchemical ingredients? Were there any horses that you could shoot your bow from?

Both are good games, for different reasons. But it's fucking obvious that Skyrim is going to be the one that is more played nowadays since it's more recent and way superior in technological advancements (physics, foliage, actual real grass, non ugly faces and adequate animations, etc).

Fuck off.

 

[Sykar]

Now this might sound a bit weird to you, stop me if I'm getting to complicated for you brain to handle and I'll take it slower, but... of all the people who have been mentioning the merits of Morrowind... I haven't actually seen anyone mention "because it's old". I do hope you don't take too much offence if I just say "Good God you're a prick" and leave it at that?

It is fucking implied you nimrod.

It's always fucking implied here on the Codex that OLD = complex, even if it's not true. Could you craft weapons and armor in Morrowind, hmm? Could you catch butterflies with your hands and use their wings as alchemical ingredients? Were there any horses that you could shoot your bow from?

Both are good games, for different reasons. But it's fucking obvious that Skyrim is going to be the one that is more played nowadays since it's more recent and way superior in technological advancements (physics, foliage, actual real grass, non ugly faces and adequate animations, etc).

Fuck off.

Yeah, you could craft weapons via enchanting, in a manner far more complex than Skyderp could ever accomplish. So what you catch butterflies? It is still just gathering stuff, now instead of finding a spot you have to click on a moving target. The complexity!

Morrowind did not have horses. Instead we had Siltriders, boats, Mark/Recall spells, etc. adding far more to creating a believable world than shitty horses and fast travel ever could. As to mounted combat, wayne, combat is still crap in Skyrim, just slightly less crap than in Morrowind.

No Morrowind, and in the same vein Daggerfall, are not better because they are older. They are better because they have actual depth and roleplay in them and are not handholding you like you are a brain dead retard full of downs with shit like markers and quest compass. You actual have to pay fucking attention. Also spell crafting and enchanting had so much more depth in comparison it is laughable to claim that Skyrim did really anything better and do not even get me started on the menu. How anyone can like Skyrim with such an atrocious menu is beyond me.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

"Why read, there's movies now !"

Because people like to get their imagination tickled, and your brain's favourite past-time is filling in gaps.

 

[Delterius]

What's completely wrong? That Morrowind has more content than Skyrim or vice versa or that quantity does not equal quality?

That there's a relevant quantity/quality comparison to be made when both games have shitty quest design. Morrowind doesn't fail before Skyrim because it has more quests of a lower quality: the quality is mostly the same. You said it yourself. Both games live and die by fetch quests and 'go here' quests. The key difference is one of technology. Skyrim makes use of its improved engine and puts you right in 'epic situations'. Again, the gamebryo TES is the series where the high point of quest design was Oblivion of all things.

Either way, all your responses are opinions, just like mine.

No shit they are my opinions. I'm the one who wrote them. I know they are my opinions. Are you hurting for more painfully obvious shit to point out in order to 'discredit' my argument?

Are you referring to Skyrim or Morrowind here? They both do this.

Morrowind is a game that prizes your ability to navigate the terrain. It does not just mark your map, the wikipedia NPCs point you in the right direction via landmarks. Its an exploration game that actually knows what its about. As opposed to Skyrim that gives you a floating arrow above your head and where no NPC ever refers to the terrain by words (too much to VO in place of those beautiful, deep and believable conversations). At best you can mod out the quest compass and actually, you know, look at the map everyone marks for you.

 

[Alkarl]

Daggerfall had fast travel. Daggerfall had a lot of things. Sorry, I'm just reminiscing, this has nothing to do with anything.

Remember when you would get a quest like:
"CHAR, you must seek the scroll at The Dancing Bear Inn in The Red Mare Inn." Except that second one would be a town? lol. First time this happened to me, I was like "Holy shit, Innception!"

What a quirky game that was.

 

[Sigourn]

Emotional platitudes are no more a basis for discussion with other people than are logical tautologies. If we do not rationalize about our experiences and articulate them in a manner that others can understand, we can never relate those experiences to others, and that begs the question, "Why talk of our experiences at all?"

You would be making sense if this discussion had any goal. But it didn't. It was just some people upset at me liking Skyrim, and the goal of the conversation was always them trying to somehow prove Skyrim is not a fun game.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Emotional platitudes are no more a basis for discussion with other people than are logical tautologies. If we do not rationalize about our experiences and articulate them in a manner that others can understand, we can never relate those experiences to others, and that begs the question, "Why talk of our experiences at all?"

You would be making sense if this discussion had any goal. But it didn't. It was just some people upset at me liking Skyrim, and the goal of the conversation was always them trying to somehow prove Skyrim is not a fun game.

Nice ego you have there. This thread is a 6 year old thread that Drog re-bumped to bait Darth Roxor and try and get some general attention. There had already been an awful lot of responses before you showed up. You "joined" an already existing conversation. You joined the conversation to express your opinion that fun=fun=fun=fun>anything else. And you've been repeating that and virtually nothing else ever since. No-one's goal has been to disprove that you personally had fun with skyrim, no-one has disputed that...

 

[Sigourn]

Nice ego you have there.

Ironic coming from the "playing cRPGs is the mark of an enlightened individual".

You joined the conversation to express your opinion that fun=fun=fun=fun>anything else. And you've been repeating that and virtually nothing else ever since. No-one's goal has been to disprove that you personally had fun with skyrim, no-one has disputed that...

I stated the obvious, which apparently isn't so obvious to some Codexers. That's why what should have been one or two posts turned into pages of mindless discussion, thanks to retards like you.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

That's why what should have been one or two posts turned into pages of mindless discussion, thanks to retards like you.

Its everybody else's fault you keep posting?

 

[Sigourn]

Its everybody else's fault you keep posting?

Yep. Instead of saying "Sigourn is right", they (you included) went into a long ass rant about how cRPGs are for smart people and Skyrim is for people too stupid to have fun with "complex" cRPGs.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Its everybody else's fault you keep posting?

Yep. Instead of saying "Sigourn is right", they (you included) went into a long ass rant about how cRPGs are for smart people and Skyrim is for people too stupid to have fun with "complex" cRPGs.

You're long-ass rants agreed with that conclusion tho...

 

[buru5]

Almost as if the everything would collapse if someone liked Planescape: Torment and Skyrim at the same time. The consequence of their retarded logic would create a paradox too strong for the universe to contain and would wipe out all of existence.

 

[Sigourn]

You're long-ass rants agreed with that tho...

No, they didn't. You think so, because for some reason I can't comprehend you truly feel superior to others becasue of old cRPGs.

I'm not surprised the Codex thinks like this, though. After all, this is a forum where a lot of users are openly racist and homophobic, so I can't expect everyone to think logically.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

You're long-ass rants agreed with that tho...

No, they didn't.

Yes they did.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks better to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest superior?

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks better to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest superior?

You phrased it wrong. You'll just get ranted at now. You should have asked:

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks more fun to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest more fun?

 

[Sigourn]

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks better to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest superior?

I had more fun with the Morrowind system, as it added another dimension to the otherwise repetitive "fetch this" and "deliver that".

 

[Alkarl]

I preferred Daggerfall, where npcs would often flat-out lie about where something was or if it was even a thing to find at all.

Since you didn't ask about that, I'd have to say Morrowind.

While I don't particularly care for HBombs political and social views, he makes a very good point in his Fall Out 3 rant about the quest compass, being that players spend more time looking at that tiny bit of screen than the world around them.

In Skyrim/Oblivion, you can't get lost. You'll never open up your map to realize that right turn an hour ago should have been a left. You certainly wont end up in the middle of the wilderness with 6 diseases, 3 health, no more skooma, and a long ass walk to the nearest temple since you can just fast travel wherever.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks better to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest superior?

You phrased it wrong. You'll just get ranted at now. You should have asked:

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks more fun to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest more fun?

Fun can be one of the factors for why someone would think their preferred mechanic is superior, but it isn't the only factor. Asking which is more fun, in my opinion, limits the range of answers.

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks better to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest superior?

I had more with the Morrowind system, as it added another dimension to the otherwise repetitive "fetch this" and "deliver that".

Could you expand on what you mean by another dimension? Personally, I liked that it added the feeling of sleuthing and a sense of increased adventure when I needed to search for my location or find another npc to question, as well as the immersiveness, but i'm curious on what you meant personally as another dimension.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

I preferred Daggerfall, where npcs would often flat-out lie about where something was or if it was even a thing to find at all.

Since you didn't ask about that, I'd have to say Morrowind.

While I don't particularly care for HBombs political and social views, he makes a very good point in his Fall Out 3 rant about the quest compass, being that players spend more time looking at that tiny bit of screen than the world around them.

In Skyrim/Oblivion, you can't get lost. You'll never open up your map to realize that right turn an hour ago should have been a left. You certainly wont end up in the middle of the wilderness with 6 diseases, 3 health, no more skooma, and a long ass walk to the nearest temple since you can just fast travel wherever.

Yeah, I didn't include Daggerfall, as I only played it a little bit myself and can't comment on it yet until I have a better understanding of the game. From what I played, I did like the different tones you could use to question people, which would change their responses, which I found to be a cool feature. As for Oblivion & Skyrim, you are right that the compass mechanic can often become the focus rather than the world around it. I've noticed fast travel has this effect as well, unless done properly like a travel system which morrowind had.

 

[Sigourn]

Could you expand on what you mean by another dimension? Personally, I liked that it added the feeling of sleuthing and a sense of increased adventure when I needed to search for my location or find another npc to question, as well as the immersiveness, but i'm curious on what you meant personally as another dimension.

A lot of quests in Morrowind aren't what I would call "exciting". But what makes them more fun and interesting is having to find your way to them. So, for example, "retrieve the puzzle cube from Arkangthand" would be very easy in Skyrim. But in Morrowind, the challenge (and the fun) thus relies in having to find it in the first place.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

Could you expand on what you mean by another dimension? Personally, I liked that it added the feeling of sleuthing and a sense of increased adventure when I needed to search for my location or find another npc to question, as well as the immersiveness, but i'm curious on what you meant personally as another dimension.

A lot of quests in Morrowind aren't what I would call "exciting". But what makes them more fun and interesting is having to find your way to them. So, for example, "retrieve the puzzle cube from Arkangthand" would be very easy in Skyrim. But in Morrowind, the challenge (and the fun) thus relies in having to find it in the first place.

Very true.

 

[ore clover]

Im curious as to the opinions of everyone here, what do you think of the compass feature for quests that was implemented in Elder Scolls: Oblivion? Was the original method in Morrowind of using directions given by npcs and landmarks better to find your quest objective, or is the newer compass mechanic which points you to the location of your current quest superior?

I personally don't like it. In my opinion it detracts from the exploration aspect that the elder scrolls games are supposed to be famous for. Sure, sometimes the directions in Morrowind weren't the best, but you could stumble on other caves/items/etc. along the way, just as a natural side effect of searching.

Worse, Bethesda's journal system has become so sparse that it's now basically, "Kill dragon, check your map to find it dipshit," with very little context for the quest provided. Someone I know, who started with Skyrim, was having trouble completing a quest in Oblivion because the quest marker disappeared for a portion of it. I had to tell him to read the blasted journal entry; since Skyrim doesn't have much of one, he just never looked at it.

The pinnacle of the radiant quest design. "Saev settlemtn!" follow your compass blindly. Finish job, return to base. New random quest, repeat. Like others have said, Morrowind's quests aren't necessarily amazing. But I prefer the way its journal promotes exploring the world, rather than zipping from point A to B.