80s Stallone
Arcane
Talking about the combat system.
- Troubleshooter
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- Troubleshooter
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Various:
Gears Tactics (3AP + cover)
Fort Triumph (3AP + cover)
Phoenix Point (4AP + cover)
Invisible Inc (<10AP + cover)
Vigilantes (<10AP + cover)
Warhammer Mechanicus (<10AP)
Why do you guys think XCOM invented having 2 AP? That system was in most weeb tactical games and in some western ones since forever.
Some examples: Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, Fire Emblem. In all of these games your units can move once and then attack once. If you attack without moving, it still ends your turn. This is exactly like XCOM's 2 AP system, is it not?
Obvious bullshit. All the three games you mentioned simply have separate movement and attack phases, concept present since the very birth of PC strategy gaming in Battleship Bismarck. Minuscule 2-10 AP system however translates roughly to the possibility of exchanging "move + shoot" to "N x move".Why do you guys think XCOM invented having 2 AP? That system was in most weeb tactical games and in some western ones since forever.
Some examples: Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, Fire Emblem. In all of these games your units can move once and then attack once. If you attack without moving, it still ends your turn. This is exactly like XCOM's 2 AP system, is it not?
Given the above, W2, CS even Battle Brothers remain tactically sound despite their minuscule AP pools, simply because their devs were conscious enough to realize said varied AP cost is of the essence in the genre. It's the Vigilantes that shouldn't have been listed there, so I fixed that.If smallish number of APs + cover fit the criteria, wouldn't both Wasteland 2 and Colony Ship RPG be nuXCOM ripp-offs too?
Too many.Talking about the combat system.
- Troubleshooter
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Didn't Xenonauts 2 want to rip it off at first until backlash happened?
I think it would have been on base building side of the game.Didn't Xenonauts 2 want to rip it off at first until backlash happened?
Yup, early concept had a single base with cross-section view:I think it would have been on base building side of the game.Didn't Xenonauts 2 want to rip it off at first until backlash happened?
Initial idea was that there was supposed to be only single base in X2, but that might've been changed.
Polling for major design decisions seems very strange to me. A dev should have a strong vision for the game he's building, else how can he make a good game? Well, I guess I'm expecting too much from the creator of such a bland X-Com clone.
Why do you guys think XCOM invented having 2 AP? That system was in most weeb tactical games and in some western ones since forever.
Some examples: Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, Fire Emblem. In all of these games your units can move once and then attack once. If you attack without moving, it still ends your turn. This is exactly like XCOM's 2 AP system, is it not?
Talking about the combat system.
- Troubleshooter
[...]
D&D has had the concept of a move and an attack action (which could be downgraded and used as a move action) for a very long time.Obvious bullshit. All the three games you mentioned simply have separate movement and attack phases, concept present since the very birth of PC strategy gaming in Battleship Bismarck. Minuscule 2-10 AP system however translates roughly to the possibility of exchanging "move + shoot" to "N x move".Why do you guys think XCOM invented having 2 AP? That system was in most weeb tactical games and in some western ones since forever.
Some examples: Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, Fire Emblem. In all of these games your units can move once and then attack once. If you attack without moving, it still ends your turn. This is exactly like XCOM's 2 AP system, is it not?
But it's not just the 2AP, it's a whole set of concepts atavistic to the genre (western tactical TB).
While the phase systems remain relevant in strategy games where units present comparable equipment like ships, divisions or giant robots because attack equates "engagement" with abstracted (irrelevant) time, and is thus a mainstay in hex based titles, it bastardizes the concept of tactical gaming where split seconds actually matter, because setting up and firing a LSW is nowhere near firing a handgun. Sure, some games apply the "no move to fire" rule, but there's more to CQB weapons than the ability to use them with shield like it's a game of COD. As opposed to strategy games concentrated on large scale operations, the brunt of tactical gameplay lies in optimal usage of singular unit. That's why a granular AP cost for different actions is the fine line between a tactical game and popamole garbage. Obviously to mask this deficiency nuXcom trash reintroduced class equipment restriction (merrily cloned over in consecutive games) since equipment choice isn't really an issue when you don't get a choice (just upgrades).
IMO the most borderline titles are actually the mecha games like Battletech or Front Mission, because they mix the "comparable armament" concepts of large scale strategy games with small unit numbers of tactical games into a still reasonably consistent whole despite phase mechanics.
And then, there are the jRPGs... I think, it's just that in a very conservatively Japanese way, mechanics in some of them simply never really evolved from the phase system? Or maybe fantasy classes are on par with comparable units given the classic RPG might vs. magic trope? Comparing jRPGs with other games is always a mess. Apples and oranges I guess.
Given the above, W2, CS even Battle Brothers remain tactically sound despite their minuscule AP pools, simply because their devs were conscious enough to realize said varied AP cost is of the essence in the genre. It's the Vigilantes that shouldn't have been listed there, so I fixed that.If smallish number of APs + cover fit the criteria, wouldn't both Wasteland 2 and Colony Ship RPG be nuXCOM ripp-offs too?
I recall this too. Unfortunately, DnD uses the term "action points" in a totally different context. So it's hard to do a search on the topic.D&D has had the concept of a move and an attack action (which could be downgraded and used as a move action) for a very long time.
If you mean being dry and dull, then maybe, but jokes aside, mechanically Wasted Land had regular AP pools, so not really.Nuxcom ripped off Call of Cthulhu: The Wasted Land