Injury systems

[Freelance Henchman]

So, I'd like to put an injury system into my NWN2 module. I thought Dragon Age actually had a good idea there, though I didn't think it was implemented all that well in it. Codex BRO DramaticPopcorn is making the framework for it, but it needs to be fleshed out as well, and that's where the devil's in the details.

What's the KKKodex stance on this sort of thing? Do you think this adds anything (it would be in addition to the standard HP loss and I don't plan on adding full regeneration after battle) or is it just a waste of time? If you do like injuries in your RPG, should they be nearly cosmetic only or really damn severe? Where is the limit where you would rather just reload the game before a hard battle or such rather than dealing with injuries?

Bonus question: should XP be given for some character healing another party member's injuries?

(voted Other myself, no particular idea yet how it should go)

 

[sgc_meltdown]

well first what's your module scenario like bro

 

[Freelance Henchman]

The plan is to make a fairly low level D&D adventure focused module. The levels where spells like Raise Dead and Regenerate and such are available will never be reached, but there may be rare scrolls with those spells.

Healing injuries would be based on character's heal skill amount (using likely expensive healing kits) and casting healing spells. I'm planning to use the SOZ system so the player can create the entire party.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Realistic injuries, plz. Lots of cannon fodder too.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Cannon fodder? Not sure I understand that. Who will be cannon fodder?

 

[Squiggle]

My vote lands somewhere between "light" and "severe". Depends on the situation and frequency. Light injuries should be more likely to happen as small debuffs, but seriously impairing ones, such as losing the ability to use an important item or weapon (broken limb?), should be more rare.

Bonus answer: Nah. But if you do it anyway, I'd say keep the number low.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Perhaps put them with a high possibility of occurring on room, chest or door traps. I never liked how you could just take the HP loss and shrug if you failed at disarming or just outright tanked it on purpose with a barbarian.

 

[Mastermind]

So, I'd like to put an injury system into my NWN2 module. I thought Dragon Age actually had a good idea there, though I didn't think it was implemented all that well in it. Codex BRO DramaticPopcorn is making the framework for it, but it needs to be fleshed out as well, and that's where the devil's in the details.

What's the KKKodex stance on this sort of thing? Do you think this adds anything (it would be in addition to the standard HP loss and I don't plan on adding full regeneration after battle) or is it just a waste of time? If you do like injuries in your RPG, should they be nearly cosmetic only or really damn severe? Where is the limit where you would rather just reload the game before a hard battle or such rather than dealing with injuries?

Bonus question: should XP be given for some character healing another party member's injuries?

(voted Other myself, no particular idea yet how it should go)

If you can find the right balance between the tediousness and the extra tactical options then yes, by all means. I myself generally prefer serious injuries with considerable requirements for pulling one off. It might even help differentiate rogue types from warriors in that a rogue can quickly take advantage of momentary weakness (like an enemy staggering) to inflict a debilitating injury. kotor/kotor2 had the right idea with sneak attacks while the enemy is stunned, and I would like to see something expand that system.

 

[Excidium]

Ninja edit: I'd prefer a cumulative penality on rolls instead of reducing total health to be honest. It's a low level D&D adventure, health decrease is really serious when everyone has like 12 HP.

Roll penalty even makes more sense as being wounded should affect your overall performance.

 

[DraQ]

#3 Makes DraQ happy.

 

[Shemar]

I voted 'Severe' because you mentioned DA:O where the penalty comes when the character falls in battle, not just when they get hit. Adding severe penalties just for getting hit in a game where melee and magic dominate would be catastrophic. That kind of things is best reserved for games where cover and stealth can protect the player character and his party from damage with reasonable expectation of success.

 

[Mastermind]

Adding severe penalties just for getting hit in a game where melee and magic dominate would be catastrophic..

Worked well enough in Guild Wars.

 

[Shemar]

Adding severe penalties just for getting hit in a game where melee and magic dominate would be catastrophic..

Worked well enough in Guild Wars.

I played through the entire game when it first came out and have no recollection of such feature which means either it was not severe enough to matter or there was such abundance of healing so as to make it moot.

The OP specifically talks about a NWN2 module where unless you (are allowed to) spam rest (which again would make any such feature moot), healing is at a premium.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Rest is restricted too. It takes food, which is scarce, and resting without food will actually reduce your HP. So that's not really an option to deal with injuries.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Rest is restricted too. It takes food, which is scarce, and resting without food will actually reduce your HP.

 

[Excidium]

Does everything reduce HP in your module?

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Well, the usual damage sources reduce HP I guess. If you DO have sufficient food, then resting simply works as usual in NWN, meaning you get all your HP back and recharge your daily abilities.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

is it possible for you to implement more common subpar provisions that only partially heal and restore memorised spells

 

[Freelance Henchman]

That would be pretty easy really. Not sure if that isn't just a teensy bit too annoying though. Plus I sort of wanted to keep this system relatively simple, so I'd rather avoid different types of food on top of everything. Does "grades of food" seem like an appealing mechanism to anyone else though?

 

[Excidium]

Yes. It would also be nice if food eventually went bad after some time, so the player can't just stack a bunch of rations and never worry about it again.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Oh wow, didn't think even Codexers would enjoy that sort of thing. Let's see, I'll try and think of a way that won't require players to keep an actual Excel sheet to track their food usage.

PS: Here's a video demo of the current state of the food system in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRenPVqsN00

 

[CappenVarra]

I voted for severe injuries, since that would be my choice in the ideal case. However, the "ideal case" clause is tricky, since low-level D&D characters tend to get insta-gibbed by unlucky rolls. In non-Ironman cRPGs, this tends to condition players to reload whenever things go badly for them, rather than deal with the consequences of an unlucky roll.

One way to deal with this would be to make "your party members are all severely wounded, now go back home and rest for a week" the successful outcome of most battles, which takes a few reloads and clever tactics to achieve This would also go well with traps causing injuries (as sgc_meltdown suggested above), restricted resting (which you already have), stripping imported characters of all experience and items, and keeping the max. achievable character levels and loot power low enough to keep the overall experience consistently challenging. Teh internetz are full of NWN2 cheese builds aimed at level 40, but when the endgame takes place at level 5 and a shortsword +1 is your greatest treasure, things are much quieter...

Alternatively (if you don't want to be "too hardcore" or whatever), what Excidium said could also work in a module built around different priorities. The Fate system is dead simple, can easily be scaled to produce any number of penalty steps (-3, -4, ...) and could (theoretically) work all right - the character being hit has effects depending on the hit magnitude (damage) and previous character condition (IIRC):

<state> -> <effect>

scratched -> none
clipped -> -1 to next action
clipped -> -2 to next action
hurt -> -1 to all actions in the encounter
hurt -> -2 to all actions in the encounter
injured -> -1 to all actions, persistent until healed
injured -> -2 to all actions, persistent until healed
taken out -> no actions possible

 

[sgc_meltdown]

food system in action.

bro you might want to consider moving the survival thing to making shitty food less uneffective for those with the skill instead of this eating less thing and then making good food a lot less available

my recommendations are based on having watched ray mears and les stroud related shows

to be fair you opened this up with injury systems in the first place bro and this is along the same lines

 

[villain of the story]

Can we set the amount of food to be consumed per rest with added benefits and hindrances?

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Teh internetz are full of NWN2 cheese builds aimed at level 40, but when the endgame takes place at level 5 and a shortsword +1 is your greatest treasure, things are much quieter...

Yeah, that's one reason I want things to stay severely non-epic. Paradoxically that means that I will have to be careful how hard the enemies hit so the insta-gib thing as you say doesn't happen too often, but I'm also introducing injuries at the same time.