Jagged Alliance headcount

[Abernathy]

I'm posting this purely out of curiosity, and I've made a poll to keep track of things in case the thread gets derailed - or more likely, just wanders off the way threads do...

To my point: The Jagged Alliance franchise has as much respect in the Tactical Combat genre as Fallout does in RPG. They have much in common - sheer class being foremost. They also share aspects of humour, excellent dialogue, believable gameworlds and much much more. Hell, both franchises even share a very similar uncertain future in the hands of developers the fans don't trust. The fact that both are looking at version III is just icing on the cake.

And just to put the little shiny balls on the icing - Fallout is an Iconic RPG with a very nice tactical element, and JA is an Iconic Tactical game with more RPG in it than the genre would expect. To top it all off, both franchises have fanbases that have remained active and solid through all the quiet years, developing mods and keeping forums alive, hassling developers, etc...

So what I'd like to know is this: It goes without saying that just about everyone here is totally familiar with Fallout - how many are up with the play with JA? What's the level of interest here?

The poll's bound to miss things, like the Brigade E5 tribute, so if you have any suggestions on how to structure it better, I'm listening.

 

[Zomg]

I think Jagged Alliance 2 gets too much credit due to the influence of the tactical combat/gun nut crossover audience. On the other hand, I couldn't really nominate a different game to be the benchmark of that genre - X-Com is a superior game at storytelling and atmosphere by a long shot, and isn't at kitsch factor 11, but psionics are disastrously bad.

 

[Abernathy]

I think Jagged Alliance 2 gets too much credit due to the influence of the tactical combat/gun nut crossover audience. On the other hand, I couldn't really nominate a different game to be the benchmark of that genre - X-Com is a superior game at storytelling and atmosphere by a long shot, and isn't at kitsch factor 11, but psionics are disastrously bad.

X-Com is another one that's a contender, for sure - but I do agree about the psionics. You're right about the gun-nuts too, there are a lot of 'reality' freaks who are right into JA, not to mention quite a few mods designed for these guys...

I guess what got me about the JA thing was (and is) the personalities. Sure, X-Com gave names to the troops (and allowed you to change them), but it didn't have a wounded Aussie named Trevor talking about "Carking it in a pool of blood and piss" - JA had character, real character.

 

[Deacdo]

JA is my favorite franchise (yes, even above the FO RPGs). I'm saddened to see it handed over to complete incompetents. I was playing the mods up until I upgraded to XP. Sooner or later I'll have to see how JA2 runs on XP.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

It runs fine for me. it's just that every time I quit I get a message saying it made an error or something, but nothing happens.

 

[sheek]

I tried it out, think X-COM 1 is so much better (and the grandfather of most of those tactical turn-based squad games).

 

[Avé]

I tried it out, think X-COM 1 is so much better (and the grandfather of most of those tactical turn-based squad games).

Not really, Rebelstar or Laser Squad would fit the bill more.
(JA1 and X-Com 1 both came out for dos the same year)

 

[Abernathy]

JA is my favorite franchise (yes, even above the FO RPGs). I'm saddened to see it handed over to complete incompetents. I was playing the mods up until I upgraded to XP. Sooner or later I'll have to see how JA2 runs on XP.

Like NL said, it runs fine on XP - I'd definitely recommend installing the 1.13 hi-res package though (http://v113.ja2mods.de/). I run it at 800*600. It's basically an enhanced vanilla JA2, engine tweaks rather than new towns and quests and stuff.

But yeah, the mods are great - I still haven't finished UC

 

[LCJr.]

I think Jagged Alliance 2 gets too much credit due to the influence of the tactical combat/gun nut crossover audience.

I have a hard time agreeing with that statement and for me that's not it at all. Actually several of the gun stats are off for the sake of the weapon progression scheme.

What I like about in no particular order:

The personalities of the mercs. They are definately some of the better NPCs I've seen in any game and the one area where X-Com falls short. I find myself looking past their stats and going with the ones I "like" i.e. picking one with mediocre stats and an amusing personality over some uber merc I can't stand. There's not too many games out there where I've devoloped an attachment or hatred of the NPC's. The interaction between them with who likes/dislikes who have a real impact on gameplay. It can be quite entertaining and frustrating at the same time. Nothing like building your "perfect" squad only to find out one half can't stand the other.

The strategic layer and non-linear approach which was sadly cut from UB. It's a nice break from the tactical combat to sit back and decide where to attack, who to recruit/let go, train, push on or hold up, etc... I think this what really made the game. UB had the same combat and mercs but for me seemed "flat" compared to JA2.

The tactical combat. One of the better turnbased systems and obviously shares a lot similarties with X-Com with AP's and interupts.

Sense of humor. Especially the Elliot bitch-slap sessions. The humor overall is quite good and makes me think SirTech really had fun doing this game.


IMHO opinion if credit is due to anything it's being a humorous, solid tactical game with very good NPC's and a non-linear world.

 

[obediah]

I hate to admit it, but I never got too far in either JA or JA2. I've tried to play each at least twice, but never gotten hooked. I enjoy the gameplay and such, so I'm not sure why it never clicked. It certainly never made entire fucking days vanish (well nights usually) like x-com did.

 

[Section8]

I loved Jagged Alliance. I think I rather naively approached it as a "thinking man's Warcraft" and discovered it was so much more. Deadly Games was also pretty tops, and I even played the shit out of the randomly generated campaigns.

Jagged Alliance 2 somehow fell under my radar when it first came out, and I didn't actually play it until late 1999. At that stage, I was being uber critical of games, and really hated the tactic of setting up a good defensive ambush and then just firing off a shot to draw the fuckers in.

And then, I realised I was only fucking the game for myself, much like scumming for shots on target in the first, so I stopped "exploiting" and explored some of the different tactics and started really enjoying the game.

I'm not really anticipating the fake sequel, because I have no fucking idea of how it's going to end up.

But like a few others in this thread, I'd hold X-Com in higher esteem. The strategy side of the game had more depth to it, and the tactical side was far more varied in terms of the weapons, environments and the enemies you faced. About the only area in which JA outdoes X-Com is with character personalities, but that still didn't stop me from getting emotionally attached to my little X-Com drones.

 

[Jinxed]

Seems like I'm the only one here who played Wildfire. Version 6 has 1024x768, fixed interface, loads of new weapons, graphics and all the maps are new. Including the strategic one. It also adds new mercs and the ability to have 9 or 10 mercs in one team.

It's not for casual gamers though. I consider myself a JA veteran but defending a sector against an attack of 30 elite soldiers is pretty tricky whatever your level.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I played JA 2 years after its release but its one of my favourites until today.

Yeah, the combat is not the non-plus ultra when compared to other TB tactic games like X-Com. But it still plays in the 1st league imho.
Besides that, it was really the mix which made it for me.

If the game had only consisted of the tactical combat part, I doubt I would have ever gotten into it.
What really made it unique for are:
-The Strategic/managment Level - Deciding which City to attack next, hiring Mercs, planing helicopter routes, training local militia,training your mercs, buying weapons via Internet.... For example I had one Merc only flying around and transporting looted equipment to a central storage, I had this weakling biff and his french love training militias ectera

-The Adventure/Roleplaying stuff
What was maybe even more fun to me then the combat was exploring the conquered town afterwards speaking with the people and gathering quests. My favourite was surely the whole Kingpin thing - if you fucked with him (taking his money or so I dont remember exactly) he sent you his heavily equipped bounty hunters on your ass until you returned to his manor and finished the guy off.
I really enjoyed many of the quest you recieved from the local townsfolk and I was always eager to explore a city after I had conquered it.

-Merc personalities and relationship between the different mercs.

-The humour/story/setting
Really, I loved the games humor. The game is not taking itself to seriously and thats fantastic.
The cliche and ironic banana state dictatorship, the hillarious scenes featering deirdranna and elliot (What?! They have conquered another town?! Elliot, you idiot! Ah *bitchslap*)
The funny websites where you could hire new mercs and buy weapons/equippment ecetera.
Lol, anyone remember this capitalist hag forcing children to produce "I love Deirdranna (or was it Arulco? dunno anymore)" - Tshirts?

-The graphics:
I cant really say why, but for me personaly, the graphics still look ok today. I dont know what exactly makes them superiour to other older games graphics which look horrible to me, but when firing up JA 2 again these days, I can still enjoy the graphics, unlike other games where I can still enjoy the game but despite the dated graphics.

 

[LlamaGod]

I'm the one who ripped/made the JA2 avatars for this website

so there.

 

[Abernathy]

I'm the one who ripped/made the JA2 avatars for this website

so there.

Thank you! I must admit I was pleasantly surprised to find them here when I first arrived - here, have a beer!

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I'm the one who ripped/made the JA2 avatars for this website

so there.

 

[LlamaGod]

Only thing is I cant ever seem to find Ivan and a few others among the listing here. I know I yanked them out, but for some reason in the process of me sending all the files in a .zip and somoene uploading them, they disappeared.

 

[Jason]

Ivan left AIM because of your failure.

 

[Abernathy]

“Barrel, all barrels are the extension of my arm”.

Arrgh! Why do I think MistLand are really going to fuck up bigtime here?

 

[Jinxed]

You probably missed how they already fucked up big time huh?

 

[Abernathy]

You probably missed how they already fucked up big time huh?

No, you'd have to be blind for that. I especially liked the shitfight they caused over TB vs RT combat.

Oh, and Ivan's real words have just returned to my addled brain - "Gun, all gun - like finger on hand".

 

[LlamaGod]

That whole thing reads like a 5 year old wrote it.

Also, Ivan without horrible English is a no-no. That was a big part of what made him fun.

No Igor either, BAH. I liked doing a two man team of my custom and Igor. Igor often got headshots and I became a fan of him.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

For christs sake, JA 3(D?) is gonna be so god awful.

 

[Fresh]

JA2 rocks. TalesfromtheCrypt's speaks the truth.

Tactical turn-based squad games... are there any in development atm? (dont say UFO)

 

[Shinan]

I recently found JA2, some gold pack and bought it because I've heard so many good things about it (here mostly). I installed it after having it taking collecting dust on my shelf for a couple of months (school-work and I had this nagging feeling that this game would take away from my time).

I've pretty much fucked up in the beginning, with way too many people dead and no real source of income just random wandering around. It also took some time to get the user interface (since the manual came as a PDF I didn't bother reading it. Damn those people who insist making PDF-manuals who in their right mind read those?), where it was a combination of hotkeys and presses after a right-click to get to stuff.

On the whole if felt clunky (god bless that "streamlining" they do nowadays that you all hate) but I think I've got used to it now, I can even aim and unload my guns now, which has made battles a whole lot easier.

Now that I've got a bit into the game I must say I love it though, even though most of my time is spent trying to fix all the fuckups I did in the beginning. I love the nice little interactions between the NPCs and how everyone hates Biff (who I probably should kick out)

So far I've only had time to play it in short 15 to 60 minute bursts, but it works well in that as well. (since it doesn't take ages to load up and close down like most newer games)