Kings Field series worth playing?

[baba is you]

Back in the 1980s and early 1990s, when CRPGs were more niche than they are now, developers were expected to sell 100,000 copies to be considered a success. But Kings Field started in the early to mid-1990s, and the fact that it only sold 100,000 copies despite being based on a popular console must have troubled Jin Naotoshi.

I think the reason why Kings Field didn't get a lot of attention is because of its action, and most of the console games were very action-oriented, and Kings Field is a little bit better than Ultima Underworld.

The fact that it only sold 100,000 copies breaks my heart because it was a pretty unusual position in the Japanese RPG market, like Lunatic dawn.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I still remember classic King's Field reviews saying "Why is this not DOOM??" and other such wonderful insights.

The problem was always movement speed and crummy first person melee combat (although I think they did a decent job at the time, all things considered. I mean it's better than Witchhaven.)

So go figure, they ditch the first person view, make movement much more responsive, add a dash of innovative online features, and it sells a shitzillion copies..

 

[flyingjohn]

I still remember classic King's Field reviews saying "Why is this not DOOM??"

You mean tomb raider? The franchise started on psx and the only really negative review compared it to tomb raider.
Everybody else was mostly complaining about the clunky combat compared to to other rpg's.
Now, slayer for the 3DO got the unfair doom treatment from reviewers.

 

[OndrejSc]

 

[Lyric Suite]

So go figure, they ditch the first person view, make movement much more responsive, add a dash of innovative online features, and it sells a shitzillion copies..

They already did that. It was called Demon Souls.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Yeah that was what I was alluding to

 

[pakoito]

I'm planning to play one of these, and only one. Which one should it be? 2J? 3J?

 

[OndrejSc]

4th

 

[Frank Capicoli]

I'm planning to play one of these, and only one. Which one should it be? 2J? 3J?

Well if you follow the advice of OndrejSc you'll end up completing the worst and slowest King's Field.

Overall I'd say 2 or 3 is the best, slightly in favor of 2.

Both Shadow Tower games are better than any of the King's Field games though.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

King's Field 3 is still the best, but Ancient City is fine.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

3 has inferior level design and atmosphere compared to 2.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Hard disagree. KF3 has great atmosphere. Just listen to this guy:



KF2 is a megadungeon which limits its scope and content. Fromsoft had not yet figured out how to make PSX games look decent. KF3 has a large multi-connected world with many dungeons. There are a few boring caves you just walk through but that's all of KF2 so whatever. What was the most atmospheric part of KF2, the flat brown ant level, or the flat grey everywhere else levels?

 

[Frank Capicoli]

A dungeon delver that's a majority underground levels? Who could've seen that coming!

In contrast there's too many open fields in 3 with padded enemies.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Visually and thematically KF2 was consistent, despite samey-looking areas. It was a single interconnected megadungeon that was well-designed and offered a lot of reasons to come back to earlier areas, and there were enough tools to make the traversal fast and easy -- it only took me a couple of minutes to reach any area in the world, and after a while, one could navigate through the world with their eyes closed.

KF3 feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be and mistakes quantity for quality, with less verticality and a worse game feel. KF1-2 suffered from uneven performance with constant jumps between 60 and 15, but KF3 runs at a constant 20 fps or less, which makes player actions feel laggy as hell.

I'm still unable to bring myself to complete it despite replaying KF1-2 multiple times because KF3 feels like a chore to play. I had more fun with Evergrace and Eternal Ring, or even the last mission of the original Armored Core even though it (figuratively) smashed my balls with a hammer.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

KF3 feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be

An odd statement. Obviously they were going the 'bigger and better' route; if one dungeon is good, ten dungeons is great.

That and KF2 had the weird Tron ending level and bizarre clash with the story of KF1, KF3 ties everything together, revisits the graveyard from the original game, gives you the coolest sword in the series yet, expands the world and lets you visit actual towns with NPCs and quests, even has some (mild) reactivity. It's true the outdoor areas don't run well on the PSX and have limited view distance, which does suck.

I found most dungeons of KF3 more interesting, such as the ancient battlefield which is a large navigation puzzle with Silveria keys, the water island area where you have to move the pathways around, the forest with the movable stumps, the canyon where you need to give up your fast travel for a bit to open the gateways across the world, all the deeper and spookier 'ancient levels' opened by Orladin keys and feel like you're going into some primordial realm beyond human understanding. Admittedly the final dungeon being a plain old castle is pretty tame in comparison but hacking your way through Dragon lords after all that powering up is a great victory lap before the final boss. I also enjoyed the magic system being a mix of leveling and exploration, as opposed to just relying on finding crystals for new spells.

Obviously there's no accounting for taste but clearly Fromsoft was building their skill set and expanding their game design chops for each game, so KF3 feels the most refined and polished to me in that regard. It's also a game with an absurd amount of secrets, I swear I play it every few years each time I discover something new.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

An odd statement. Obviously they were going the 'bigger and better' route; if one dungeon is good, ten dungeons is great.

Yeah, in the same way Blizzard went from Diablo 1 to Diablo 2 and it felt more bloated and less focused.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

KF3 feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be

An odd statement. Obviously they were going the 'bigger and better' route; if one dungeon is good, ten dungeons is great.

That and KF2 had the weird Tron ending level and bizarre clash with the story of KF1, KF3 ties everything together, revisits the graveyard from the original game, gives you the coolest sword in the series yet, expands the world and lets you visit actual towns with NPCs and quests, even has some (mild) reactivity. It's true the outdoor areas don't run well on the PSX and have limited view distance, which does suck.

I found most dungeons of KF3 more interesting, such as the ancient battlefield which is a large navigation puzzle with Silveria keys, the water island area where you have to move the pathways around, the forest with the movable stumps, the canyon where you need to give up your fast travel for a bit to open the gateways across the world, all the deeper and spookier 'ancient levels' opened by Orladin keys and feel like you're going into some primordial realm beyond human understanding. Admittedly the final dungeon being a plain old castle is pretty tame in comparison but hacking your way through Dragon lords after all that powering up is a great victory lap before the final boss. I also enjoyed the magic system being a mix of leveling and exploration, as opposed to just relying on finding crystals for new spells.

Obviously there's no accounting for taste but clearly Fromsoft was building their skill set and expanding their game design chops for each game, so KF3 feels the most refined and polished to me in that regard. It's also a game with an absurd amount of secrets, I swear I play it every few years each time I discover something new.

One good dungeon is better than 10 weak dungeons.

KF2 felt like a good meal. KF3 felt like ten plates of overcooked noodles.

I might give it another try and see if my opinion changes, but that's how it felt to me.