Knights of the Chalice: Finally a real old school rpg

[Andhaira]

http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/

SO you've probably heard the buzz. Yes it recycles darksun type grafics, and d&d ules. But so what. The darksun series were great games. Fantastic turnbased combat, good story, good freeroaming exploration and good tactics. This appears to be similar so I'm getting this when it comes out.

Anyone know of a specific release date? He says its almost ready, just missing a few grafix files.

 

[Murk]

Ugh, that horrible angle. I can stomache graphics much worse, but that angle... that horrible horrible angle. WHY?

 

[Andhaira]

The angle is cool. It was used in ultima 7 and darksun 1 and 2.

 

[Hory]

The angle is cool. It was used in ultima 7 and darksun 1 and 2.

No, just in Ultima. That's why I didn't play it, the angle defies all laws of nature. Tho this RPG looks somehow better. We need mondblut to test it sometime and say if it's very tactical.

 

[Trash]

Wow, that really does look oldskool. Consider me interested.

And codexers complaining about perfectly decent graphics? This place is going to the shitters.

 

[mondblut]

The angle is cool. It was used in ultima 7 and darksun 1 and 2.

No, just in Ultima. That's why I didn't play it, the angle defies all laws of nature.

Same kind of angle was used in Daemonsgate and Challenge of 5 Realms, for example.

This game is not yet finished. I am eagerly waiting for it though.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Ugh, that horrible angle. I can stomache graphics much worse, but that angle... that horrible horrible angle. WHY?

Directly overhead is a good thing.

I remember those moments in Infinity Engine games where the 45 degree angle led to me not noticing entire doors and corridors, and I had to mouse over the screen to notice objects.

 

[made]

Looks perfectly fine to me. Much better than the atrocious graphics styles in other indie games.

Though with a title like that, I shudder to think how the plot plays out.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Looks very promising. Consider me interested.

And yes, the overhead angle is an excellent one for an RPG.

 

[obediah]

The graphics make me nostalgic, the design goals make me excited, but the fonts (and thus the resolution) are enough to keep my $20 in my pocket. If I want a DOS game text reading headache, I can get it for free with dosbox and hotud.

 

[Panthera]

The angle is cool. It was used in ultima 7 and darksun 1 and 2.

No, just in Ultima. That's why I didn't play it, the angle defies all laws of nature. Tho this RPG looks somehow better. We need mondblut to test it sometime and say if it's very tactical.

Right, Dark Sun didn't use it at all.

It's the only reason I haven't played much Ultima 7. I seriously cannot stomach it.

 

[Zyrxil]

Ugh, that horrible angle. I can stomache graphics much worse, but that angle... that horrible horrible angle. WHY?

Directly overhead is a good thing.

I remember those moments in Infinity Engine games where the 45 degree angle led to me not noticing entire doors and corridors, and I had to mouse over the screen to notice objects.

That makes no sense. The doors and corridors in Ultima-style are at a 45 degree angle. It's only the floor that isn't, your bran realizes this, and it tries to eat itself.

 

[Panthera]

What we're looking at is the difference between isometric projection and oblique projection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_projection

Isometric projection provides an accurate representation of the object, while Oblique projection involves distortion that just don't sit right in the the brain.

Oblique drawing is also the crudest '3D' drawing method but the easiest to master. Oblique is not really a '3D' system but a 2 dimensional view of an object with 'forced depth'. One way to draw using an oblique view is to draw the side of the object you are looking at in two dimensions, i.e. flat, and then draw the other sides at an angle of 45 degrees, but instead of drawing the sides full size they are only drawn with half the depth creating 'forced depth' - adding an element of realism to the object. Even with this 'forced depth', oblique drawings look very unconvincing to the eye. For this reason oblique is rarely used by professional designer and engineers.

 

[Andhaira]

The gameplay video is delicious. Combat seems lot of turnbased fun with cool spells. rea effect spells are also in btw which is always fantastic. Since its d&d 3e rules we already know what to expect. I wish they had used an original ruleset.

Also, a choice of only 3 classes sucks. I have already decide my party will be knight, cleric, wizard, and last slot either a warrior-mage or pure mage.

 

[Murk]

Directly overhead is a good thing.

I remember those moments in Infinity Engine games where the 45 degree angle led to me not noticing entire doors and corridors, and I had to mouse over the screen to notice objects.

It's not directly overhead tho, it's barely slanted and its annoying. Regardless of what it is to you- I hate that bloody angle. IE games' viewpoint has always been fine to me...

 

[Elhoim]

The graphics make me nostalgic, the design goals make me excited, but the fonts (and thus the resolution) are enough to keep my $20 in my pocket. If I want a DOS game text reading headache, I can get it for free with dosbox and hotud.

This.

I have no problems with old style 2D graphics (and they are really well done), but the low resolution just kills me.

 

[PorkaMorka]

The graphics make me nostalgic, the design goals make me excited, but the fonts (and thus the resolution) are enough to keep my $20 in my pocket. If I want a DOS game text reading headache, I can get it for free with dosbox and hotud.

They changed the font in later screenshots, fyi.

of course at 320xwhatever rez its always going to be a little wonky.

I have to say this game is my most anticipated RPG, even over AOD, since it promises solid gameplay (and d20 rules), which for me is >>> choices, consequences and weak fallout style combat.

 

[Gwendo]

Looks perfectly fine to me. Much better than the atrocious graphics styles in other indie games.

Though with a title like that, I shudder to think how the plot plays out.

I think the game is all about turn based combat. I gues the plot will be just an excuse to move from combat to combat.

Just like in many old RPGs.

 

[Rhett Butler]

Colour me interested, looks like I will be reinstalling windows when the demo for this comes out. The angle is weird but I'm sure you get used to it. A minor issue.

Edit: Don't like this though;

the computer will automatically look for the best option available.

One click combat?

 

[getter77]

All I can say at the moment is that things have improved and changed somewhat since the first trailer, as can be noted in part from the latest screenshots.

Ruleset is kinda 3.5...but only "kinda". Like there only being 3 classes, some stuff is just a different flavor or at the developer's discretion.

I suspect folk looking forward to the game will feel good about it overall.

 

[Gwendo]

Colour me interested, looks like I will be reinstalling windows when the demo for this comes out. The angle is weird but I'm sure you get used to it. A minor issue.

Edit: Don't like this though;

the computer will automatically look for the best option available.

One click combat?

It probably just means that it will do the coup de grace or cleave automatically, for example. It's like rolling the dice for you. Do you really have to roll the dice?

 

[Rhett Butler]

It probably just means that it will do the coup de grace or cleave automatically, for example. It's like rolling the dice for you. Do you really have to roll the dice?

No, in situations where there is only one thing a logical player would do I don't mind the game stepping in and doing it automatically. One would hope that situations like that are rare though.

What skills are in the game?

None, I'm afraid. I consider that the OGL skills are more useful for a pen-and-paper game than for a computer game. In Temple of Elemental Evil, I thought skills were cumbersome and mostly without use.

This sounds terrible.

Can I play with the maximum ability scores possible?

The game has options to specify that you want each character to have from one to six 18s in the ability scores. So if you set the number of 18s to six, your characters will have the maximum ability scores (18 in each ability). There is also an option to specify that you want the maximum hit point increase at each level-up.

You have got to be kidding me. There are no skills and you can play will all your stats maxed. This doesn't sound like much of an RPG.

Why use these player races?

Player characters can be human, half-elf or mul (half-dwarf). The main reason for using only these races is economy. The more exotic races require different graphics, while these three look very alike.

So laziness is the reason.

Why use these character classes?

The game features three character classes, Fighter (Knight), Cleric and Wizard. These are the only classes that appeared in the Original Dungeons & Dragons (see Gary Gygax's Men & Magic). It would be nice to have more classes and powers, such as psionics, barbarian rage, sneak attack damage, or druidic spells. However, it is much simpler to make a game with just these three main classes.

Again, laziness. At least he's honest.

I'm less interested after reading the FAQ, but I emailed them and asked if they would come post in this thread to address my concerns.

 

[Andhaira]

@Rhett Butler: I take it you haven't played old school d&d games? In all those games you could choose to maximise your attributes (dungeon hack, goldbox, eob, darksun, hillsfar etc etc)

 

[Murk]

If the game revolves around a smaller party, then max stats isn't even anything worth giving a shit about. Seriously, it just means you can learn every spell available and you get the almighty +3 to hit/damage that is about as relevant as the weapon focus and specialization feats... that is, it isn't something even worth remembering unless the entire fucking game takes place between levels 1-5, which I'm just going to go ahead and assume it won't.

As much as the view's angle bugs me, the game's setup has me curious. But no rogue? Hope the game is light on traps and locks then...

 

[Rhett Butler]

No, I haven't played any pre windows games. Just because it was a feature in old games doesn't mean I have to like it though, and if having max stats means little then the stats mean little. And that's gay, why have them at all? And not having skills still sucks. Maybe my idea of an RPG is somewhat modern, but this game falls short of it. Having meaningful stats and skills is pretty crucial damn it, making hard decisions about character progression and seeing the results of those choices is a massive part of the genre's appeal to me.