KotOR 2 is one of the best games ever made

[Kaanyrvhok]

My take

Positives
For a game with one character class the character development is great

Gritty

As dark as Star Wars gets

pretty good dialog especially with NPCs

Lots of Jedi Powers

Negatives
3 NPCs... Will any of these 3D games catch the IE in complexity

Cant attack anyone

Linear and 'boxed in' in the same way KOTOR was. The game needs some Carmen San Diego influence.

First two hours are very boring

Story is average

Overall

Maybe in the mid teens on my all-time list.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Cant attack anyone

I've never understood this. It's possibly the most irrelevant feature in RPGs and has only been done right in few occasions like the Fallout series. I HATE half-assed Stupid Evil.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

because it is "bioware meets xbawks". no wish to work much? write all those in-party banters for too many characters? a fear that more than two npcs could overload brains of poor console kiddies? - you name it. and Obsidian had no time to bother with removing engine limitations (and according to TSLRP modders and Obsidian's devs - Odyssey/Aurora is so fucked up that adding one feature could send the engine into a coma).
apparently two NPC limit was too much for console kiddies as well - that's why JE had 1.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt KOTOR 1 built from the mainframe of the NWN engine which had similar limitations with NPCs and was also a PC exclusive.

 

[Volourn]

Aurora has no party limitations. This is a myth disproven by NWN expansions, *and* NWN2. And,t here's the fact you can have baiscally unlimited joinable npcs IF THE MODULE MAKER wishes to do it. It's not a limitation of the engine; but a design decision.

Period.

 

[dragonfk]

Aurora has no party limitations. This is a myth disproven by NWN expansions, *and* NWN2. And,t here's the fact you can have baiscally unlimited joinable npcs IF THE MODULE MAKER wishes to do it. It's not a limitation of the engine; but a design decision.

Period.

So it is a bad design decision, not the first and certainly not the last coming from Bioware or in this case from Obsidian. Though I dont mind 3 NPC in party in KOTORs it does take away a little bit of fun in both NWNs.

 

[Xor]

KOTOR doesn't use Aurora, it uses Odyssey: a derivative of Aurora designed to run on the xbox. This means that it naturally wouldn't have all the features of the Aurora engine, since the xbox is inferior hardware-wise to modern PCs.

In Aurora, it's possible to raise the follower limit (probably to some arbitrary maximum like 16 or 255), but that doesn't mean Odyssey allows that feature. Many aspects of the party system were likely changed in order to get it running on an xbox (which has 64 megs of ram IIRC and a very slow processor).

It's also possible that it's easy to add more party members in Odyssey, but Obsidian couldn't do it and still meet their performance requirements (it has to run on an xbox).

 

[Lumpy]

One of the biggest flaws of Kotor 2 was using the crappy Star Wars setting.
On the other hand, the completely absurd way expert droids speak allowed for this gem:

In the very MCA secret tomb:
Kreia: So you will do nothing? Apathy is death.
Atton: Apathy is death.
Bao-Dur: Apathy is death.
Handmaiden: Apathy is death.
T3: Beep-deep Beep Beep Tep-Beep
Kreia: Apathy is death

 

[Jasede]

KOTOR 2 would be awful if not for the setting. Well, as we say in German: debating this is like throwing pearls to the pigs.

 

[Raapys]

Agreed, KOTOR 2 is only good because of the setting, not despite it. And Kreia is really about 80% of the reason why the game is good.

Anyway, I just replayed it over the last few days and I must admit there are some things I liked better in KOTOR1. Mostly it's related to the general level design. I somehow felt levels were just far better in 1 as opposed to 2.

For a good example of this, take the Korriban academy. In K2 it's just ruins and a few empty hallways, but in K1 you can have fun with the Sith apprentices, enter the tombs of the dead Sith lords, etc.

In fact I don't think there's actually a single area in K2 that is particularly well-made.

 

[Xor]

I thought Nar Shaada was well done, but that's about it.

What an amazing game it could have been, with another six months or so of polish.

 

[MetalCraze]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt KOTOR 1 built from the mainframe of the NWN engine which had similar limitations with NPCs and was also a PC exclusive.

then the most obvious reason is laziness. bioware just saw that they can push any half-baked shallow product on the market and people will consume it - and continued that way.
work less - earn more

 

[Volourn]

"So it is a bad design decision"

Nah.


"then the most obvious reason is laziness. bioware just saw that they can push any half-baked shallow product on the market and people will consume it - and continued that way.
work less - earn more"

Wrong. Iyt's becuase of whiny crybabies like the Codex, BIO fanboys, and punks like me that got them to do this. NWN was meant to be MP. BIO olnly added it becuase their supposed fnabase demanded it. The OC only had companions at all because of this hence their late addition.

This is why,that despite the fact that the OC compajnions actually are pretty good personality/backlground/history wise;; you don't get to see it other than in long paragraphs.

So, in essence, it's the Codex's fault.

R00fles!

 

[Lumpy]

- Jedi support. I set Visas to Jedi Support stance and go back to my character. After a few seconds I notice she isn't casting any spells but swinging her own lightsaber around. I click on her again and see she's on Aggressive stance again

Aaaaaaaargh frustration++

Still a fun game, but I think next time I'll avoid a weapon master, since it seems it's the only thing the AI knows how to do :-P

You need to click on the stance icon after scrolling to it. The same goes for lightsaber stances.