Review KotOR first gushings at GameSpy

[Jed]

Did I hear Babylon 5?! :D That show was incredible and my all time favorite series ever.

Sorry Hanzo, but Babylon 5<Star Trek. I mean, just look at the ratings, profits, and general consensus. Obviously Babylon 5 is inferior; sorry, I'm just being objective. You say you like Babylon 5 better? That's just bias. And if you disagree with the general consensus, then you're just being unoriginal. Yup. It's objective and verifiable with hard facts. If you disagree with me, then you're not thinking for yourself. Sorry. Just the way it is. Did I mention, you're also an armchair elitist for not following the general consensus. Sorry, just being objective...[/Channeling Lord Ebonshite]

 

[Greenskin13]

SquareSoft: Suck more than BioWare.

YES! 3y3 4m teh happi wiff dis!!!1111

Okay, my next point.

Can't say I agree that everyone in Codex is here out of spite for what's mainstream. We tell it like it is, and point out flaws that we see. If we were so against what's popular, then we would then worship underground games, no? But we don't. We still see the mistakes made in the games. ToEE had mediocre voice acting and stringy dialogues. Arcanum was only non-linear if you ignored the main story. Caveman had GODAWFUL graphics. And several members of this board play Diablo 2. They're just not raving fanboys who say that everything in D2 is infallible. It is a fun stat-builder, but the chars were unbalanced. There was quite a buzz when v1.1 was announced, and that it would try to rebalance the skills.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Sorry Hanzo, but Babylon 5<Star Trek. I mean, just look at the ratings, profits, and general consensus. Obviously Babylon 5 is inferior; sorry, I'm just being objective. You say you like Babylon 5 better? That's just bias. And if you disagree with the general consensus, then you're just being unoriginal. Yup. It's objective and verifiable with hard facts. If you disagree with me, then you're not thinking for yourself. Sorry. Just the way it is. Did I mention, you're also an armchair elitist for not following the general consensus. Sorry, just being objective...[/Channeling Lord Ebonshite]

Ahhh, man. And here I thought I was being original and my own person stating my own opinions about a subject. Damn.

And I hate being bias. I don't wanna be bias. Do I really have to?

But seriously, did you know that Michael Straczynski (creator of B5) approached Paramount with the idea first and they turned him down. One year later Paramount releases ST: Deep Space Nine. Hmmmm..........

Voss: Thanks for the heads up. I'll check out Best Buy's price for it. I really would like to avoid shelling anymore money over to Wal-Mart than I already have.

 

[Sammael]

No, I'm not positive about that. But I know they weren't around for Fallout, yet they've retroactively slapped their logo on the FO site, so a little revisionism here or there, it's all in a day's work, right?

Fallout was made by the role-playing games section of Interplay. That section was then turned into a division and named Black isle Studios.

 

[Sarkile]

3. I think it's obvious that BIO producses high quality games. Poorly made games tend to stop selling very quickly no matter how much hype precedes them. As for whether one like a certain game, all opinion, nothing more.

Didn't the sales for Dungeon Siege hold up? And I thought you took that to be a bad game. Sales is not the same as quality.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Here we go again....

 

[Sarkile]

Hey sorry! Ignore my post which was made before I noticed there was a page 3 and 4. :D

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Which still doesn't stop it from having roleplaying.

nope, the lack of roleplaying stops it from having roleplaying...

mark

Perhaps you don't know what roleplaying is, in which case, avoid from making coments like those, which really do not speak volumes of your intelligence or ability to grasp that the game has situations in which you can play a role, with actual outcomes to decisions. Roleplaying is about that, validating your presence in a gameworld via a presentation of outcomes to what you do, specially choices you must make; otherwise its just filler, aesthetic text. So, no son, it has roleplaying. Minimal roleplaying, i'll grant that much (as i have in the past), but it has rp. Period. If you can't see it, too bad, jsut don't blatantly lie based on your incapacity to see beyond your own misgivings towards the game. In other words, don't lie to people with more than half a brain.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

No, I'm not positive about that. But I know they weren't around for Fallout, yet they've retroactively slapped their logo on the FO site, so a little revisionism here or there, it's all in a day's work, right?

Fallout was made by the role-playing games section of Interplay. That section was then turned into a division and named Black isle Studios.

Actually, it was made by a group of developers who were working for Interplay and left before BIS was fully founded. Back then, Interplay just made games, they didn't divide themselves in to division. Tim Cain's done more than just CRPGs for Interplay, I'm sure the others have as well.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Actually, it was made by a group of developers who were working for Interplay and left before BIS was fully founded. Back then, Interplay just made games, they didn't divide themselves in to division. Tim Cain's done more than just CRPGs for Interplay, I'm sure the others have as well.

It was also back when their credo was "Made by gamers for gamers". A credo I wish they still lived by. Now it seems like it's something more to the effect of "Made by posers for gamers who probably won't like our product".

 

[Vault Dweller]

We should probably make Fallout trivia sticky thread to avoid repeating commonly known facts over and over again. Btw, Walks, you shouldn't have deleted your post listing people who worked on Fallout and Arcanum, that would have been educational for some people.

 

[Volourn]

Sarkile, you should by now that one person's opinion means nothing. Obviously, by the fact that DS did well, it shows that enough people thought that DS was a fun, quality game, so there ya go. Unlike certain others just because I don't like a game doesn't mean I think that only idiots like it - unless your name is Howling1 who thinks its the best crpg of all time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Opinions have little to do with sales in general. Look at the Matrix3, everyone knew it would suck, the reviews proved it, yet look at the sales. Apparently people were curious how badly it sucks and went to see it. Our society is bored, and anything that kills time with minimum mental activity is a good thing

 

[Volourn]

I bet the majority of people who saw Matrix enjoyed it for what it was. Then again, I thought Matrix 1 sucked so much I fell asleep within the first half hour. Havne't bothered to see it all, or its sequels. Talk about overrated.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I kinda liked the original one, but have heard many bad things about its sequels. The first one balanced it out between an actual story and action. I'm not interested in seeing the sequels, though. I mean, i wont decide not to see them if they're passing on TV and i got free time, but i wont go out of my to see them nor will i rent the movies. I even declined an invitation to see the premiere.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

We should probably make Fallout trivia sticky thread to avoid repeating commonly known facts over and over again. Btw, Walks, you shouldn't have deleted your post listing people who worked on Fallout and Arcanum, that would have been educational for some people.

I just knew Volourn would lawyer me again saying he was talking about people who worked on ToEE.

Ah well, to those it may concern...

Troika staff from p. 175 of Arcanum manual:

Jason Anderson
Leonard Boyarky
David Bragg
Timothy Cain
Mark Harrison
Chris Jones
Michael McCarthy
Chad Moore
Steve Moret
Yong Park
Jesse Reynolds
Sharon Shellman

People who also showed up on the Fallout credits in bold.

 

[Jed]

Btw, Walks, you shouldn't have deleted your post listing people who worked on Fallout and Arcanum, that would have been educational for some people.

See my post about half-way down on the previous page.

 

[Elwro]

Quite frankly, both Troika and Bioware suck. *snip*
With BIS as good as gone, my conclusion is that there are no decent PC RPG companies left on the North American continent.

What RPG companies do you consider decent?

1. NWN - Good game, but way overrated. I really did not like the OC, but there is alot of the fan made modules out there that are quite excellent in both story and content.

Could you name 3 of those modules?

XJEDX wrote:
Fallout pre-dates Black Isle. BG too, if I'm not mistaken. Downhill on both accounts once BI forms...
Are you sure? My BG copy has a Black Isle logo slapped on it.

Mine doesn't. Only Bioware and Interplay.

 

[Volourn]

Snails, of course. :D

Elwro, I no longer have my BG1 box; but I do have TOTSC; and it definbitely has a BIS logo on it.

As for modules go, it's best to check them out if you want. Why? Because, any module listed by anyone will probably be labled as lame, or hans't really been tried. It would just be his personal opinion anyways. I've seen many crappy modules, and many good ones.

 

[Psilon]

Really? Mine even installs to Black Isle\Baldur's Gate. MobyGames also agrees with me, listing BG but not Fallout.

Maybe they did something to the non-US releases?

 

[Elwro]

Elwro, I no longer have my BG1 box; but I do have TOTSC; and it definbitely has a BIS logo on it.

OK, I checked the manual, and you're right - they are in the credits section. For some obscure reason the Polish publisher didn't put their logo on the box.

As for modules go, it's best to check them out if you want. Why? Because, any module listed by anyone will probably be labled as lame, or hans't really been tried. It would just be his personal opinion anyways. I've seen many crappy modules, and many good ones.

Yeah, the problem is that the only ones I've tried except for one really good Polish mod were crappy. Even those conversions of old DnD modules. I was just hoping that you could give your personal opinion on which modules are good.

 

[Jed]

Elwro, I no longer have my BG1 box; but I do have TOTSC; and it definbitely has a BIS logo on it.

OK, I checked the manual, and you're right - they are in the credits section. For some obscure reason the Polish publisher didn't put their logo on the box.

As for modules go, it's best to check them out if you want. Why? Because, any module listed by anyone will probably be labled as lame, or hans't really been tried. It would just be his personal opinion anyways. I've seen many crappy modules, and many good ones.

Yeah, the problem is that the only ones I've tried except for one really good Polish mod were crappy. Even those conversions of old DnD modules. I was just hoping that you could give your personal opinion on which modules are good.

The problem with NWN modules, with a few exceptions I imagine, is that they all play and feel nearly exactly the same. I've tried quite a few--probably around 5 or 7 (each a highly rated entry on NWN@ign)--and it all just feels like the NWN OC to me...

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Could you name 3 of those modules?

Well, Adam Miller's Shadowlands series, as well as his Dreamcatcher series. Those are among my personal faves. Don't expect fancy scripting though from him. Instead he weaves a rich and wonderful tale in both those campaigns that makes the OC look like a three year old wrote it.

Birthright Of The North is another good one with a decent story and some really nifty scripting work, including the implementation of deities.

The Graveron Seduction is another one I liked particularly well. Decent NPC interactions and some off the wall quests. Plus, it has another grand sweeping tale that is well implemented.

A Hunt Through The Dark is a nice change of pace from the usual trife out there. While nothing innovative as far as scripting and stuff goes, it's still a decent series with a good solid story.

There are more, but those are the ones that stand out for now.

EDIT: BTW, you can get these from here: http://nwvault.ign.com/

And, yes, these are all of my opinion. No guarantee you will like them. I have said in previous threads that the most important thing to me in a game is a good story. All of the above are wonderful pieces of work literature wise, especially the Adam Miller stuff. None of them have anything that truly outshines usual rifraff as far as scripting and such goes, but they all have depth and take a big turn from the OC's generic quests.

 

[Grifman]

Arcanum?

I think I've noticed a trend with all the new Bio-loving rejects that are rearing their ugly heads in the last few weeks: Pretentiousness of name is directly proportional to overzealousness of defense of Bioware.

Ad hominem attacks are directly proportional to one's inability to produce an argument, much less a persuasive one.

Grifman

 

[Jed]

Ad hominem attacks are directly proportional to one's inability to produce an argument, much less a persuasive one. Grifman

I wasn't arguing, dipshit, I was flaming the moron.

PS- Aren't you a little late? Did it take you a whole 24 hours to formulate your witty retort?