No, hear me out.
So, we all have different opinions on Mass Effect. (Personally, I'm cautiously looking forward to it as an somewhat inferior version of Bloodlines, one of my favorite games and the canonical example of Action RPG/FPS done right.)
Set those opinions aside. Consider with me, for a moment, just its dialog system (not the actual dialog, but the system itself). There are two key aspects of this system. The first is the "ReAl TiMe DiAlOg Of ViCtOrY" - this is lame and implemented in a half-assed way, and even if it were possible to implement it well (which I do not concede) it would still be undesirable.
The second part of the system is the way that the player chooses the "direction" he wants the dialog to go by selecting a short phrase representing a possible response at that point in the conversation, and the game then automatically extends this into a full-length response. I really believe that Bioware is onto something potentially brilliant with this, although they don't seem to realize it themselves.
The RPG Codex invariably champions skill-based and turn-based combat, and rightly so for a genre of games that should be largely about character skill instead of player skill. Moreover, the Codex commonly supports using skills in dialog (in the sense of additional dialog options that require a skill check versus some stat or skill in order to succeed, typically represented with the infamous [square brackets]).
Bioware's system, I think, points the way toward the possibility of truly "skill-based dialog." Imagine if instead of skills presenting you with new optional lines in dialog (e.g., "[Insight] But wait . . . if you were in New York last night, then WHO WAS THE MAN IN THE CLOWN SUIT?"), your skills instead influenced the outcome of your attempts to guide the conversation. In a conversation in my proposed system, another character will say something. Your character can choose a variety of different responses: to lie, to try to change the subject, to persuade, to seduce, to make a cutting insult, to answer truthfully, to give out a certain piece of information, and so on. (Obviously not all possibilities would be available at all times.) The key point here is that your options are not presented in the form of full-text lines, but instead merely as directions you are choosing to take the conversation, or perhaps as shorthand text for what you will say.
Then, and this is where this system departs radically from Bioware's (I think . . . if Mass Effect does this, it instantly shoots to the top of my hype list), after you make your choice the game will decide BASED ON YOUR SKILLS AND STATS what your character actually says. (Obviously, because of limited game designer resources, there will only be a few possibilities for any given line, but note that this is no more restrictive, and in fact less so, than the Arcanum/Fallout/Planescape style we all like so much.)
I think an example is in order. Say you are confronted by a guard down by the docks after curfew. He demands, "State your business, citizen!"
You, the player, then see the options:
1) [Tell the truth:] Doc Roberts sent me to retrieve smuggled medicine.
2) [Tell a partial truth:] I'm here to meet a ship.
3) [Lie]
4) [Seduce]
5) [Intimidate]
6) [Flee!]
7) [Attack!]
Now, choosing options 6 or 7 do exactly what they say, no dialog involved. I'm not going to explicitly list all possible outcomes for the other choices, but in each case what happens will depend on your stats/skills. For example, after choosing option 1 your character will say one of three possible lines:
Low intelligence, or very low speech skill: You look down at the ground with a hang-dog expression, then stutter, "Er . . . well . . . there's some kind shipment goin' down. Medicine. Smuggled medicine . . . look, just ask Doc Roberts, okay? I don't really know."
Average stats: You say, "I'm here at the request of Doc Roberts up on Eastville road. I'm supposed to meet a group of smugglers shipping medicine into the city."
High speech and charisma (note: no high intelligence option here, but that's not always the case): Your voice ringing with pride and apparently genuine conviction, you declare, "I am here to do a great service for this city - this city that employs you, that houses your family and yourself. This city whose crest is emblazoned on your uniform - this city that you clearly love. There is no time to waste! A shipment of urgently needed medicine is being smuggled in, and with your help we'll be able to bring it all in to Doc Roberts soon enough to save the good people of the city." You clasp his shoulder, look at him gravely, then smile. "You'll be a hero."
There will be a similar range of resulting lines for the other choices as well, many of which may lead to different outcomes. (I.e., the first two response above lead to the same result: you being arrested, and Doc Robert's whole resistance organization being under heavy scrutiny, while the third option not only retrieves the medicine but recruits a guard to your cause who may help you in the future.) Other skills come into play with other options, so you will have to choose options best suited to your character. For example, a high skill in deception will allow you to make up a convincing lie, while your lie will be downright absurd if you have low intelligence and low deception. You will have easier speech and charisma checks for a positive result if you choose the partial truth, but you have the added danger that if your deception is too low then your response will be something like:
Visibly sweating, you stare at the guard and pause for a long moment. He stares back. You say, "I'm here to meet a ship. Just a ship. Uh . . . sir."
Obviously, this won't be very convincing. However, no matter what happens in this case, you haven't given information about Doc Roberts, and he may be able to spring you from jail or help out in some other way.
Anyway, what do you all think? I'd love to see something like this implemented in a game. Also, note that I think the system I'm envisioning would still incorporate some elements of the more traditional dialog systems. In particular, I think there are times when your options should be influenced by your skills, not just the actual lines your character says. This has gotten really long already, however. I'm off.
So, we all have different opinions on Mass Effect. (Personally, I'm cautiously looking forward to it as an somewhat inferior version of Bloodlines, one of my favorite games and the canonical example of Action RPG/FPS done right.)
Set those opinions aside. Consider with me, for a moment, just its dialog system (not the actual dialog, but the system itself). There are two key aspects of this system. The first is the "ReAl TiMe DiAlOg Of ViCtOrY" - this is lame and implemented in a half-assed way, and even if it were possible to implement it well (which I do not concede) it would still be undesirable.
The second part of the system is the way that the player chooses the "direction" he wants the dialog to go by selecting a short phrase representing a possible response at that point in the conversation, and the game then automatically extends this into a full-length response. I really believe that Bioware is onto something potentially brilliant with this, although they don't seem to realize it themselves.
The RPG Codex invariably champions skill-based and turn-based combat, and rightly so for a genre of games that should be largely about character skill instead of player skill. Moreover, the Codex commonly supports using skills in dialog (in the sense of additional dialog options that require a skill check versus some stat or skill in order to succeed, typically represented with the infamous [square brackets]).
Bioware's system, I think, points the way toward the possibility of truly "skill-based dialog." Imagine if instead of skills presenting you with new optional lines in dialog (e.g., "[Insight] But wait . . . if you were in New York last night, then WHO WAS THE MAN IN THE CLOWN SUIT?"), your skills instead influenced the outcome of your attempts to guide the conversation. In a conversation in my proposed system, another character will say something. Your character can choose a variety of different responses: to lie, to try to change the subject, to persuade, to seduce, to make a cutting insult, to answer truthfully, to give out a certain piece of information, and so on. (Obviously not all possibilities would be available at all times.) The key point here is that your options are not presented in the form of full-text lines, but instead merely as directions you are choosing to take the conversation, or perhaps as shorthand text for what you will say.
Then, and this is where this system departs radically from Bioware's (I think . . . if Mass Effect does this, it instantly shoots to the top of my hype list), after you make your choice the game will decide BASED ON YOUR SKILLS AND STATS what your character actually says. (Obviously, because of limited game designer resources, there will only be a few possibilities for any given line, but note that this is no more restrictive, and in fact less so, than the Arcanum/Fallout/Planescape style we all like so much.)
I think an example is in order. Say you are confronted by a guard down by the docks after curfew. He demands, "State your business, citizen!"
You, the player, then see the options:
1) [Tell the truth:] Doc Roberts sent me to retrieve smuggled medicine.
2) [Tell a partial truth:] I'm here to meet a ship.
3) [Lie]
4) [Seduce]
5) [Intimidate]
6) [Flee!]
7) [Attack!]
Now, choosing options 6 or 7 do exactly what they say, no dialog involved. I'm not going to explicitly list all possible outcomes for the other choices, but in each case what happens will depend on your stats/skills. For example, after choosing option 1 your character will say one of three possible lines:
Low intelligence, or very low speech skill: You look down at the ground with a hang-dog expression, then stutter, "Er . . . well . . . there's some kind shipment goin' down. Medicine. Smuggled medicine . . . look, just ask Doc Roberts, okay? I don't really know."
Average stats: You say, "I'm here at the request of Doc Roberts up on Eastville road. I'm supposed to meet a group of smugglers shipping medicine into the city."
High speech and charisma (note: no high intelligence option here, but that's not always the case): Your voice ringing with pride and apparently genuine conviction, you declare, "I am here to do a great service for this city - this city that employs you, that houses your family and yourself. This city whose crest is emblazoned on your uniform - this city that you clearly love. There is no time to waste! A shipment of urgently needed medicine is being smuggled in, and with your help we'll be able to bring it all in to Doc Roberts soon enough to save the good people of the city." You clasp his shoulder, look at him gravely, then smile. "You'll be a hero."
There will be a similar range of resulting lines for the other choices as well, many of which may lead to different outcomes. (I.e., the first two response above lead to the same result: you being arrested, and Doc Robert's whole resistance organization being under heavy scrutiny, while the third option not only retrieves the medicine but recruits a guard to your cause who may help you in the future.) Other skills come into play with other options, so you will have to choose options best suited to your character. For example, a high skill in deception will allow you to make up a convincing lie, while your lie will be downright absurd if you have low intelligence and low deception. You will have easier speech and charisma checks for a positive result if you choose the partial truth, but you have the added danger that if your deception is too low then your response will be something like:
Visibly sweating, you stare at the guard and pause for a long moment. He stares back. You say, "I'm here to meet a ship. Just a ship. Uh . . . sir."
Obviously, this won't be very convincing. However, no matter what happens in this case, you haven't given information about Doc Roberts, and he may be able to spring you from jail or help out in some other way.
Anyway, what do you all think? I'd love to see something like this implemented in a game. Also, note that I think the system I'm envisioning would still incorporate some elements of the more traditional dialog systems. In particular, I think there are times when your options should be influenced by your skills, not just the actual lines your character says. This has gotten really long already, however. I'm off.
