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Name 5 Things you would like to see improved in SoZ (NWN2)
- Thread starter Warden
- Start date
Gromnir
Liturgist
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2004
- Messages
- 394
observation 1: levels 1-3 of D&D 3.5... suck.
can argue now til doomsday, but if rules is followed, dms must spend considerable effort trying to keep levle 1-3 characters alive when facing s'posed appropriate cr critters. also, characters is often bored at such levels, 'cause their options in combat is extreme limited. sure, a fighter may have power attack as a feat, but how often can he use it? spell casters got only a couple low-level spells, and the clerics, even if they got good spells to be using they cannot cast'em 'cause they gotta keep in reserve to use for healing.
level 1-3... sucks. skip such levels or speed through is a Good idea, not a bad one.
observation 2: make a good game story w/o a compelling villain is doomed.
some folks is gonna play crpgs just for the 1007 cycle.
kill a baddie.
get 1007.
kill a more powerful baddie.
get better 1007.
etc.
is nothing wrong with playing d&d simply for combat. some of the so-called hardcore role-players may forgets that d&d evolved from table-top war gaming, and the early rules o' d&d were pretty much all combat related. d&d is, at its core, a squad-based tactical game.
so? what is the point? the point is that you is gonna need a villain that players can fight. there is gonna have to be an opportunity to have some kinda confrontation with the UBG at end o' game, and that confrontation is gonna involve combat. obsidian gotta simply accept the reality. fight shadow o' self or king o' shadows kinda enemies is a terrible way to end game. UBG gotta be worth the time investment of player, not just as a final combat scenario, but also as climax o' game story.
observation 3: the d&d adventuring party is typical one of the most challenging monsters in a d&d game.
fight a cave full o' hook horrors? boring and tedious. s-shaped map filled with some repetitve monster encounter? dull. on the other hand, fight another balanced group o' critters/persons with d&d appropriate classes, can always be challenging if developers design well.
observation 4: the soul-o-meter in motb were little more than a trivial annoyance.
have discussed this in the past. am not gonna retread. Gromnir can appreciate the attempt to add an extra level to gameplay, but there were too many flaws in system to be fun, and too many exploits to prove a challenge.
observation 5: If Gromnir can effectively describe a jnpc in 1 sentence (or less,) then the writer failed.
in 25 words or less... ever see The Player? Gromnir ain't a big fan of hollywood films about hollywood. even so, the aforementioned film weren't bad. main character/producer wanted people to pitch him their movie ideas in 25 words. sadly, far too often, obsidian jnpcs never seems to evolve past the pitch stage. is fine to come up with characters that is having a gimmick , but if you not build on that foundation, Gromnir gets bored.
...
lunch time... will finish later.
HA! Good Fun!
can argue now til doomsday, but if rules is followed, dms must spend considerable effort trying to keep levle 1-3 characters alive when facing s'posed appropriate cr critters. also, characters is often bored at such levels, 'cause their options in combat is extreme limited. sure, a fighter may have power attack as a feat, but how often can he use it? spell casters got only a couple low-level spells, and the clerics, even if they got good spells to be using they cannot cast'em 'cause they gotta keep in reserve to use for healing.
level 1-3... sucks. skip such levels or speed through is a Good idea, not a bad one.
observation 2: make a good game story w/o a compelling villain is doomed.
some folks is gonna play crpgs just for the 1007 cycle.
kill a baddie.
get 1007.
kill a more powerful baddie.
get better 1007.
etc.
is nothing wrong with playing d&d simply for combat. some of the so-called hardcore role-players may forgets that d&d evolved from table-top war gaming, and the early rules o' d&d were pretty much all combat related. d&d is, at its core, a squad-based tactical game.
so? what is the point? the point is that you is gonna need a villain that players can fight. there is gonna have to be an opportunity to have some kinda confrontation with the UBG at end o' game, and that confrontation is gonna involve combat. obsidian gotta simply accept the reality. fight shadow o' self or king o' shadows kinda enemies is a terrible way to end game. UBG gotta be worth the time investment of player, not just as a final combat scenario, but also as climax o' game story.
observation 3: the d&d adventuring party is typical one of the most challenging monsters in a d&d game.
fight a cave full o' hook horrors? boring and tedious. s-shaped map filled with some repetitve monster encounter? dull. on the other hand, fight another balanced group o' critters/persons with d&d appropriate classes, can always be challenging if developers design well.
observation 4: the soul-o-meter in motb were little more than a trivial annoyance.
have discussed this in the past. am not gonna retread. Gromnir can appreciate the attempt to add an extra level to gameplay, but there were too many flaws in system to be fun, and too many exploits to prove a challenge.
observation 5: If Gromnir can effectively describe a jnpc in 1 sentence (or less,) then the writer failed.
in 25 words or less... ever see The Player? Gromnir ain't a big fan of hollywood films about hollywood. even so, the aforementioned film weren't bad. main character/producer wanted people to pitch him their movie ideas in 25 words. sadly, far too often, obsidian jnpcs never seems to evolve past the pitch stage. is fine to come up with characters that is having a gimmick , but if you not build on that foundation, Gromnir gets bored.
...
lunch time... will finish later.
HA! Good Fun!
Warden
Arbiter
Toolset:
Please, make easier to plant trees. As it is now you must manually use the page down key for every damn tree to make it not look like it's flying (if the terrain is not completely flat). That's a LOT of work - so we are stuck with countless modules and pws (and even some locations in the OC) with flying trees.
Can you implement something that'll make trees automatically stick to the ground, without half the base being in air if it's on inclined terrain?
The same thing applies to all other placeables.. but it's most annoying for trees - since you often have to place a lot of trees.
Just an example of what I'm talking about; There's a house detached from ground above the Bryce tomp (Blacklake district) and some very noticeable flying trees in the lizardfolk area (the area you get access to if you decide to kill Slaan - which I did not, was just testing something).
The second thing is the terrain stretching if you decide to make a cliff or vertical terrain. Can you make it so that the terrain automatically unstretches after the cliff is made - or make it possible to paint the stretched surface with another layer of terrain so that it doesn't look stretched and ugly?
Please, make easier to plant trees. As it is now you must manually use the page down key for every damn tree to make it not look like it's flying (if the terrain is not completely flat). That's a LOT of work - so we are stuck with countless modules and pws (and even some locations in the OC) with flying trees.
Can you implement something that'll make trees automatically stick to the ground, without half the base being in air if it's on inclined terrain?
The same thing applies to all other placeables.. but it's most annoying for trees - since you often have to place a lot of trees.
Just an example of what I'm talking about; There's a house detached from ground above the Bryce tomp (Blacklake district) and some very noticeable flying trees in the lizardfolk area (the area you get access to if you decide to kill Slaan - which I did not, was just testing something).
The second thing is the terrain stretching if you decide to make a cliff or vertical terrain. Can you make it so that the terrain automatically unstretches after the cliff is made - or make it possible to paint the stretched surface with another layer of terrain so that it doesn't look stretched and ugly?
Kogorn
Novice
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 63
These are mostly going to have to do with what I've noticed playing the main campaign in NWN2 and MOTB. I've never had time to figure out how to use the editor...I wish I did.
1) In the main campaign of XP2, death has to be more penalizing. The system in the OC and MOTB (dead characters come back to life as long as one person stays alive) was too forgiving. Raise Dead/Ressurection should have an actual purpose. By the time battles were so big that using such spells seemed worthwhile in the OC, you were given a rod of resurrection anyway.
Cleric NPCs also should not heal you and restore you 100% everytime you ask. Those services would require payment. If you want to heal to full, incorporate actual, useful Inns.
2) Warlocks need better ways to control their abilities, and better AI. Hideous Blow should be a MODE. For example, if you want to use it you go into a mode that gives you one attack per round (since you get one blast per round iirc) and each hit you do adds eldritch blow damage. It's really not that hard.
Secondly, The default warlock AI should NEVER be running in and meleeing, unless you're in hideous blow mode. There's no point. If the warlock is not casting invocations their "normal attack" should be an eldritch blast. Period. Regular melee with a warlock (unless its with hideous blow) is pointless.
3) Better new classes and prestige classes. I know they are in D&D lore, but adding a sorcerer version of a class (i.e. favored soul for priest) is really NOT that interesting. Prestige classes/newly implemented classes that are interesting are ones that give you unique, special abilities that allow the class to be played with a bit of a different mechanic. Wu Jen is a good example. Blood Magus is a good example. Shifter is a good example. Wizardslayer is a good example (although that particular class shouldn't be implemented until fighting casters is actually a challenge). In otherwords, you need to add more classes like warlock, and more prestige classes like pale master, duelist, dragon desciple and warpriest.
4) Enemy casters need to be buffed...especially wizards. Wizards were the easiest fights for me in the OC. Half of them never casted summons. Most did not begin the battles buffed. What made casters challenging in BG (apart from having them actually do smart things like dispel your buffs and target individual party members) was the contingency/chain contingency spell. The AI does need to be buffed in general, but wizards need the biggest one.
5) Gear was not balanced in the OC and MOTB, and neither were enemies. I was able to become immune to almost everything early on in MOTB, and hardly ever took a point of damage during the last fight in the OC. Items that do things like give you 15 to all resistances or +6 or more to saving throws need to be extremely rare. Same with weapons with enhancement bonuses greater than 6. Crafting makes them too easy to create.
Enemies also need to be balanced, and encounters need to be more realistic. In the OC, it seemed that the undead scaled with game progress, but had the same names. That makes sense for creatures like vampires who can take class levels, but all generic zombies should be generic zombies. Not everything you encounter at high level needs to be high level, and actual high level encounters need to be tougher. I never had to reload during boss battles or end-of-dungeon encounters. The enemies were only "tougher" because they had more hp and more melee damage.
I understand that your character should "feel" more powerful as the levels improve, but the game also needs to be realistic. A level 18 wizard should not just "happen" to find a staff of the Magi right as he turns level 18. These instances were too common in the OC. Items of such power should be earned through particularly challenging fights. Koroboros (who drops the staff in the OC) was too easy. In actual D&D, the more powerful you get the more creative tactics you are capable of. Winning a battle should not involve overpowering enemies with pure force all the time. Implementing spells like wall of ice/stone/mud would make battle tactics much more fun. Or dimension door. Also, why can I never get my Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion?? WHY?!?!?!
Also, I must not be well-versed in bioware forum lore...who is this "Merlinda" mentioned in the earlier post lol.
1) In the main campaign of XP2, death has to be more penalizing. The system in the OC and MOTB (dead characters come back to life as long as one person stays alive) was too forgiving. Raise Dead/Ressurection should have an actual purpose. By the time battles were so big that using such spells seemed worthwhile in the OC, you were given a rod of resurrection anyway.
Cleric NPCs also should not heal you and restore you 100% everytime you ask. Those services would require payment. If you want to heal to full, incorporate actual, useful Inns.
2) Warlocks need better ways to control their abilities, and better AI. Hideous Blow should be a MODE. For example, if you want to use it you go into a mode that gives you one attack per round (since you get one blast per round iirc) and each hit you do adds eldritch blow damage. It's really not that hard.
Secondly, The default warlock AI should NEVER be running in and meleeing, unless you're in hideous blow mode. There's no point. If the warlock is not casting invocations their "normal attack" should be an eldritch blast. Period. Regular melee with a warlock (unless its with hideous blow) is pointless.
3) Better new classes and prestige classes. I know they are in D&D lore, but adding a sorcerer version of a class (i.e. favored soul for priest) is really NOT that interesting. Prestige classes/newly implemented classes that are interesting are ones that give you unique, special abilities that allow the class to be played with a bit of a different mechanic. Wu Jen is a good example. Blood Magus is a good example. Shifter is a good example. Wizardslayer is a good example (although that particular class shouldn't be implemented until fighting casters is actually a challenge). In otherwords, you need to add more classes like warlock, and more prestige classes like pale master, duelist, dragon desciple and warpriest.
4) Enemy casters need to be buffed...especially wizards. Wizards were the easiest fights for me in the OC. Half of them never casted summons. Most did not begin the battles buffed. What made casters challenging in BG (apart from having them actually do smart things like dispel your buffs and target individual party members) was the contingency/chain contingency spell. The AI does need to be buffed in general, but wizards need the biggest one.
5) Gear was not balanced in the OC and MOTB, and neither were enemies. I was able to become immune to almost everything early on in MOTB, and hardly ever took a point of damage during the last fight in the OC. Items that do things like give you 15 to all resistances or +6 or more to saving throws need to be extremely rare. Same with weapons with enhancement bonuses greater than 6. Crafting makes them too easy to create.
Enemies also need to be balanced, and encounters need to be more realistic. In the OC, it seemed that the undead scaled with game progress, but had the same names. That makes sense for creatures like vampires who can take class levels, but all generic zombies should be generic zombies. Not everything you encounter at high level needs to be high level, and actual high level encounters need to be tougher. I never had to reload during boss battles or end-of-dungeon encounters. The enemies were only "tougher" because they had more hp and more melee damage.
I understand that your character should "feel" more powerful as the levels improve, but the game also needs to be realistic. A level 18 wizard should not just "happen" to find a staff of the Magi right as he turns level 18. These instances were too common in the OC. Items of such power should be earned through particularly challenging fights. Koroboros (who drops the staff in the OC) was too easy. In actual D&D, the more powerful you get the more creative tactics you are capable of. Winning a battle should not involve overpowering enemies with pure force all the time. Implementing spells like wall of ice/stone/mud would make battle tactics much more fun. Or dimension door. Also, why can I never get my Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion?? WHY?!?!?!
Also, I must not be well-versed in bioware forum lore...who is this "Merlinda" mentioned in the earlier post lol.
Last time I checked it wasn't in apparently: drag select box à la BG/any decent RTS to select all characters, hell, every character selection method should practically mimick that of BG or TToEE, it was a lot more fluid and obvious in those games. Maybe some of these details could be changed in the NWN2 settings but that's something I shouldn't go through and experiment with, we're talking about basic control functionality, make you default settings the right ones, Obsidian.
Demnogonis Saastuttaja
Magister
Ryuken said:
It does have that, actually, as I decided to try it if it works. The problem is that if you zoom up and control your party like that, you won't be able to see much anything. I first thought it's because you can't zoom far enough but I'm pretty sure it's actually because in games like BG etc. you have fixed perspective and camera angle, and will always see what you're meant to see, you don't have to move the camera around to find stuff and see enemies because you're unable to do that, you merely scroll around and see anything not covered by FoW. Well, maybe it's not that, either, but something about the RTS mode of NWN2 feels even less right than the over-the-shoulder angle.
1. Please incorporate Tony K's AI in NWN2.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.
4. See 1.
5. See 1.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.
4. See 1.
5. See 1.
Warden
Arbiter
REMOVE the luck of heroes background feat. Now, many feats need balancing - but this one is simply out of this galaxy.
+1 to AC and saves. Compare this to feats like dodge or other background feats - like +2 to saves versus poison. This is not a strategy game, but come on devs, you should get some lessons from strategy game developers in the balancing department. Because this is hurtfully hillarious.
It should be +1 to AC but -1 to will save for example. Or.. +1 to all saves and -1 AC.
***
http://ve3d.ign.com/images/fullsize/34767/PC/Neverwinter-Nights-2-Storm-of-Zehir
Care about the clipping - red flowers so blatantly stick through the wall. And a part of the inner wall is detached...
***
Please sticky this.
+1 to AC and saves. Compare this to feats like dodge or other background feats - like +2 to saves versus poison. This is not a strategy game, but come on devs, you should get some lessons from strategy game developers in the balancing department. Because this is hurtfully hillarious.
It should be +1 to AC but -1 to will save for example. Or.. +1 to all saves and -1 AC.
***
http://ve3d.ign.com/images/fullsize/34767/PC/Neverwinter-Nights-2-Storm-of-Zehir
Care about the clipping - red flowers so blatantly stick through the wall. And a part of the inner wall is detached...
***
Please sticky this.
Deleted member 7219
Guest
SpaceKungFuMan said:
Lies. If you actually read my next post in that SAME FUCKING THREAD, you'll see I cancelled the preorder after reading several shitty interviews/previews, in favour of pirating the game instead. So don't fucking lie.
It's just an optional camera I want, not a change in gameplay, you fucking retard. Learn to read. Adding a new camera option doesn't dumb the game down. Idiot.
i only need 3
1- make a combat system that doesnt suck (see toee for examples)
2- fix the %$!&$ Camera
3- if you are going to add prestige classes try to put something that is worth a damn, Shapeshifter = fun, harper's whatever or yet-another-paladin-alternative = very boring
1- make a combat system that doesnt suck (see toee for examples)
2- fix the %$!&$ Camera
3- if you are going to add prestige classes try to put something that is worth a damn, Shapeshifter = fun, harper's whatever or yet-another-paladin-alternative = very boring
Warden
Arbiter
There's a very annoying thing with some lasting area of effect buffs. For example circle against alignment: Whenever someone exits and enters the aoe (and that happens a LOT) there's an irritant double, triple, quadriple KLING sound coupled with icons popping over your heads.
That's so irritant it makes me turn off sound. Why don't you get rid of that sound and the icon popping up above your head (for these specific aoe spells) and instead just leave the icons next to the character portraits to appear.
That's so irritant it makes me turn off sound. Why don't you get rid of that sound and the icon popping up above your head (for these specific aoe spells) and instead just leave the icons next to the character portraits to appear.
Warden
Arbiter
Ok, I'm a bit boring but..
Please, when dual-wielding two different types of weapons characters should get a -1 penality to hit to both weapons. It's not as easy to fight with a mace and a short sword as it is with 2 short swords. And visually it's more appealing to have 2 similar weapons.
Please, when dual-wielding two different types of weapons characters should get a -1 penality to hit to both weapons. It's not as easy to fight with a mace and a short sword as it is with 2 short swords. And visually it's more appealing to have 2 similar weapons.
Lemunde
Scholar
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 322
Framerate, camera, interface...All I can think of right now but seriously, I can't even play the game unless these get fixed.
Yes, I'm sure your nights spent sneaking out of the house to battle ninjas and flamethrower wielding crocodiles gives you lots of experience in the matters of dual wielding maces and short swords. I mean even the lowliest member of the Night Barbarian Massacrists knows you don't dual wield maces and short swords. That's what sword-chucks are for.
Warden said:Ok, I'm a bit boring but..
Please, when dual-wielding two different types of weapons characters should get a -1 penality to hit to both weapons. It's not as easy to fight with a mace and a short sword as it is with 2 short swords. And visually it's more appealing to have 2 similar weapons.
Yes, I'm sure your nights spent sneaking out of the house to battle ninjas and flamethrower wielding crocodiles gives you lots of experience in the matters of dual wielding maces and short swords. I mean even the lowliest member of the Night Barbarian Massacrists knows you don't dual wield maces and short swords. That's what sword-chucks are for.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Messages
- 24,793
That is not in D&D rules and should not be included. In fact, any and all changes from 3.5 rules - which work just fine, aside from minor complaints (dying at -10 HP is too early at higher levels), unless you are silly about it and ask for "realism" - are not to be desired. It is supposed to be a traditional game - make it so.
I changed my mind on max HP rolls, too. It is right that in videogames this might make encounters easier to balance. While I think this is a bit lazy design philosophy, I hope they will be balanced better than in MotB or NWN 2. Feel free to make combat much harder - people who do not have NWN 2 or MotB are not that likely to buy this, after all, so you might as well provide those who do with a challenge.
I changed my mind on max HP rolls, too. It is right that in videogames this might make encounters easier to balance. While I think this is a bit lazy design philosophy, I hope they will be balanced better than in MotB or NWN 2. Feel free to make combat much harder - people who do not have NWN 2 or MotB are not that likely to buy this, after all, so you might as well provide those who do with a challenge.
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