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Squeenix New Crawler "Dungeon Encounters" by Square Enix, budget lower than the rpgcodex server costs

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,827
Reached second 2-way teleporter on floor 19. At the point where you need to start exploration masteries juggling.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,827
Btw now that i reached safe space it is the time to rescue wanderer from floor 16 properly and excort her to academy.
 

MpuMngwana

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
337
I've mapped every last tile in the dungeon, and with that I'll take my leave as I can't be bothered to grind for the optional superbosses. Floor 92 will haunt me in my nightmares; luckily, going solo bypasses the punishment for teleporting into a wall. I'm terrible at gouging teleport distances.
 

680x0

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
128
I've mapped every last tile in the dungeon, and with that I'll take my leave as I can't be bothered to grind for the optional superbosses. Floor 92 will haunt me in my nightmares; luckily, going solo bypasses the punishment for teleporting into a wall. I'm terrible at gouging teleport distances.

I use a 2 foot transparent drafting ruler, also great for making impossible shots in Tank Wars style games.

Nothing better than watching a small Indian boy have a psychotic episode because he can't afford his own calculator and ruler.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,827
I really miss moments like this in rpg games, when you crawl dungeon half-ded, running away from everything that moves and then suddenly see

0WemsWE.png
 
Joined
May 12, 2021
Messages
29
How does the save system work ? Can you save anywhere, only at savepoints or is it like DS/roguelikes when the game constantly save ?
 

Amurada

Educated
Joined
Jul 26, 2020
Messages
73
Welp, nvm, grinding is absolutely not necessary for post-game content after all. Defeated all the final super bosses with each member of my crew being under lv.90. Started a new file yesterday on my pirated PC copy, and had a fantastic time going through the first 20 floors with a brand new approach. Given that the game's strong suit is the game's first 40 floors -- which could be extended to the first 98 floors if I knew ahead of time that utilizing Sir Totoro and R2-D2 was a bad idea :\ I then went back to the PS4 copy that contains my furthest save, and went on to defeat the aforementioned superbosses.

IMG_0384.jpg

Now that I've completed the game proper, I recognize that the game's failings ultimately hinge on a few overpowered team compositions involving the characters mentioned prior. It is unfortunate that this is the case, and I would hope that a potential sequel can consider many other factors re:balancing to further up the challenge that was present in the 'early' game. Granted, the game wasn't all too difficult prior to the OP team comps, but it was challenging enough in a very unique and engaging manner; being one of the few games that had me consider randomization of various damage potentials at any given time, and factor that into team composition when it came to many aspects of the game's encumbrance and ATB systems, as well as the loot drop system that aids in variance throughout multiple different playthroughs of the game.

Exploration, as I have mentioned before, is top notch. There are very few games I enjoy going off the beaten path, and this is one of them. Too many a game simply has wide open spaces where traversal is merely a manner of holding forward, with the sole engagement being new visuals; or secret trinkets. Exploration mechanics are a means of engaging with the game in a strategic manner, when it comes to both tactical planning, and adapting to random events that occur on the game map. Venturing off by means of survival, as well as through random circumstance (pitfalls) has never been more engaging in just about any DRPG, which usually only has these mechanics as a form of annoyance. Was surprised to see that there was some purpose to the grid based nature of the labyrinth design beyond pragmatism and being niggardly with the shekels: it serves to compliment many of the exploration based mechanics.

In general, this game has many design implementations mentioned in my previous posts that were very well thought out in terms of game balance, with very few minor tweaks that would need to be met in order to ramp up the challenge significantly. Of course, new mechanics and balance implementations expected of a sequel would be much preferred. General aesthetic flourishes and light story related additions could work wonders if not overdone (more regarding the latter); puzzles could do with being more integrated with exploration, and some gimmick mechanics would be nice as well (definitely would beat out having more math/map puzzles); and the game could also do with incentivizing exploration in ways that go beyond breaking the game via attaining late game content (perhaps focusing less on the completion of charting every floor, and instead have more eventful situations that go beyond the FOE's the subgenre seems to stick with).

I trust that this back to basics approach can be iterated upon to work wonders if the game was given a proper chance into blossoming into a series (spiritual sequel or otherwise). Definitely looking forward to whatever Ito and Cattle Call work on next, and I hope other developers in the DRPG genre take note of what was accomplished here!
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,973
How would people rate the game in terms of these two criteria compared to stuff like wizardry/elminage:
-Difficulty
-Party customization
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,590
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I stopped playing because I got a party wipe, and decided to clear a few games from the backlog.

Today, I rescued them, and reached level 47. Good times. I can't wait for some better gear. Once I reach level 50, I will go for some math, and map riddles.

The plan is to beat this before SMTV hits. I wasn't going to get it, but I'm in the mood for some SMT.
 

Kalarion

Serial Ratist
Patron
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Jan 30, 2015
Messages
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Location
San Antonio, TX
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Ok, this shit is just evil. Fuck you just because fuck you.

76CP13r.png

Holy shit. I was convinced I was missing a tile that was occupied by a 94 encounter (which I was avoiding at the time). I finally went on with the dungeon in frustration. I was planning to come back once I got the Tile Attunement ability (or whatever it's called, the one that tells you the direction of unmapped tiles). This fucking game :D

How did you find it?

Bros I was wrong. Shunga's ok, but her base speed is only 70. The best I've found so far are Elva, doggo and the ninja dude (doggo's brother) from floor 34, all 72 speed. I'm rocketing through the 30s rn, supported by the Francesca and shitload of Malio 8s I got while risking wipes on aforementioned 94/62/64 encounters near level 30. Just got Greater Ascension, looking forward to that. I feel like I should take a quick trip back to the top at level 39, memorize a couple tile coordinates, then use them repeatedly in conjunction with Conjure Warp to completely trivialize the travel grind.

I couldn't for the life of me solve the Math Riddle 3 (the one that rewards the Urn). It's really aggravating because it's the only one of the four I've found so far that I just have no clue. The other three I got fairly quickly.

How would people rate the game in terms of these two criteria compared to stuff like wizardry/elminage:
-Difficulty
-Party customization

Others who have more experience can feel free to correct me, but imo:

Difficulty- slightly easier then both. Just a step or so below. It features a ton of fuck-you one-shot abilities, monsters can break your equipment, and lots of ways you can screw yourself. But it also gives means to deal with them, and encounters themselves are pretty deterministic (one of the first abilities you get lets you see all enemy encounters, and they're numbered roughly according to difficulty, so you always know whether you're farming or possibly going into a tasteful rape session). Other abilities give you total immunity to a lot of the aforementioned fuck-you stuff. But until you get to the point you never have to worry about poison/petrify/consume/banish, it's enjoyably rough.

Party Customization- much worse. Characters are differentiated by their stat growth in HP/PP, and by their base speed. Some characters can also equip a couple unique pieces of equipment. That's it. No class- or character-specific abilities at all. The game doesn't suffer much from it though IMO.
 

Amurada

Educated
Joined
Jul 26, 2020
Messages
73
How would people rate the game in terms of these two criteria compared to stuff like wizardry/elminage:
-Difficulty
-Party customization

As Kalarion states, it is easier than both Elminage, and Wizardry alike; although, I would add that it is much easier than both. That isn't to say that the game doesn't provide a challenge however. To clarify, I have played the game a total of 2.75 times now - have an initial playthrough that lasted an hour where I intentionally wiped the whole team to see what would happen, then a proper playthrough that lasted two hours, then a complete 100% playthrough on a non-pirated PS4 copy of the game, and now, a second serious playthrough on my pirated PC copy (too cheap to double dip on either Steam or Switch). I also have experience with Wizardry and Elminage, and prefer the likes of Labyrinth of Touhou, Genius of Sappheiros, and Dungeon Encounters -- partially due to being more polished as a software product, and partially due to design decisions made in 'modern' games of this type.

Most of what makes Elmadry slightly more difficult stems from frustrating design decisions that have carried over from the sub-genre as traditional staples that ought to be there. I don't agree with this approach, and is the primary factor as to why the subgenre has stagnated imo. To be clear, I dislike modern CRPGs such as Divinity, Witcher, Ass Effect, et al. but DRPGs have been waning in ways that have been improved with games such as Dungeon Travelers, Dungeon Encounters, Etrian Oddysey, LoT, etc. And while all of these titles could do with having their difficulty be ramped significantly, some of what makes the likes of Elmadry more difficult are these archaic design decisions from years past. I've recently played through Elminage Gothic again, and found the most difficult aspect of it to be the tedium that sets in from the uninspired locales, the level design, lack of character customization, and generally mindless dynamics in battle. I much prefer the likes of LoT, which is a somewhat difficult game in ways that extends beyond brute force tactics. Dungeon Encounters is quite a bit easier than LoT, but notsomuch that it is brainless, and there are ways to make the game much more challenging (not using certain characters for one) that keeps the game much more engaging. I would definitely recommend giving the game a go. Just pirate it, and decide to purchase it later if you hafta. The first 3 hours will give you a general idea of what challenge there is to come further in.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,827
How did you find it?
Facetanking walls. Don't do it. Because of this i only reached floor 30. After reaching 29 i went and cleared twenties. Brought wanderers to floor 0. Fully mapped every floor so far. Bruteforced map puzzles.
 

j2alg

Educated
Joined
Aug 8, 2021
Messages
80
It's kind of ridiculous that you get poison immunity long before actual poison enemies show up. And it's honestly pretty bad that you only get direct damage weapons at the start and for the first five floors.
 

MpuMngwana

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
337
I couldn't for the life of me solve the Math Riddle 3 (the one that rewards the Urn). It's really aggravating because it's the only one of the four I've found so far that I just have no clue. The other three I got fairly quickly.
Oh, believe me, it's going to get worse. Much, much worse.
 

MuscleSpark

Augur
Patron
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
369
The making of DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS (square-enix-games.com)

Subways, guinea pigs and simple complexity: the story of DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS
We speak to Director Hiroyuki Ito and Producer Hiroaki Kato about making a one-of-a-kind RPG.
Wednesday November 3, 2021 16:00

By Duncan Heaney
Tags: DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS

DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS is a true original.

This minimalist dungeon-crawler strips the RPG to its core essentials - and in doing so finds a magic all its own. From the intensely strategic combat to brain-bending exploration challenges, it’s a game that pushes players in ways few other games can across all if its 99 floors.

The result is a furiously entertaining RPG that’s exciting, tense and incredibly compelling - you’ll feel that pull to always do just one more floor.

Of course, the quality of the game will come as no surprise to long-time Square Enix fans. It’s directed by Hiroyuki Ito, who also directed FINAL FANTASY VI, FINAL FANTASY IX and FINAL FANTASY XII, and produced by Hiroaki Kato, who held a similar role on FINAL FANTASY XII THE ZODIAC AGE and FINAL FANTASY TACTICS A2 Grimoire of the Rift!

Because DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS is such a unique game, we were excited to talk to these talented developers about their vision for the game, and how it all came together.

Underground ideas
Inspiration can come from all kinds of places, and the idea for DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS came from somewhere you might not expect - public transport.

“The concept for the game came when we were looking at a 3D map of the Tokyo subway system,” says Ito-san.

“The Tokyo Underground has many different lines that weave between each other in a complicated way. But each line also has its own unique character - some lines are actually quite short, and others loop all around the whole city, for example. You can cross between lines to try and ride them all too.

“The dungeon we created for DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS also looks complicated and like it randomly intertwines with itself at first glance, but each floor has its own defining characteristics. You have to think carefully about how to proceed onwards each time.

“We thought that this kind of environment would make for an interesting game to play.”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_1-x9kkamif7.jpg

Gridlock
The team wanted to present these complex layouts in a way that players could easily understand and provide navigation challenges that would make people have to really think about their position. The grid-based traversal system was perfect for this.

Kato-san explains: “By keeping the play area as a simple 2D grid, it reduces the amount of information that the player has to process. This makes it easier to grasp your current situation and to use your imagination.”

This grid-based format also allowed the developers to present players with problems that haven’t really been seen in a game before. Individual grid co-ordinates are an important element of the game, and they always appear on the top-left of the screen.

Kato-san says: “You need to use your imagination to glean hints from the grid co-ordinates and the shape of the spaces, among other things, to work out the best route onwards. This offers a unique and enjoyable challenge.

“It seems like it must have been done before but it’s actually something completely new!”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_4-fff7ne7ba.jpg

ATB is back!
Not every idea was completely new though - combat takes inspiration from the FINAL FANTASY series’ Active Time Battle (ATB) system, created for FINAL FANTASY IV… by none other than Ito-san himself!

You may already know how it works - rather than each combatant patiently waiting their turn, each has a bar that fills up over time. Once filled, they can take an action, regardless of turn order.

“The ATB system in FINAL FANTASY IV came about because we thought that having factors that occur based on time elapsed would bring battles closer to realism,” says Ito-san. “For example, in a traditional RPG a group of creatures, such as cyclopes, could be waiting for us when we woke up from a nap. If that was real, we’d certainly be dead!”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_12-jond26p2t.jpg

Ito-san decided to revisit the system he pioneered for DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS, but not without adding some new refinements to make it even more strategically satisfying.

In the game, enemies and heroes have two types of defense - Physical and Magic. Attacks and abilities target the different defenses - only when their values are down to zero can you start whittling down a target’s HP.

This system came from a desire to do something different to the traditional RPG formula. Ito-san says: “I wanted to re-create the sort of gameplay that has you watching the enemy gauges.

“I looked for a feature, beyond the typical elemental affinities like fire, ice, earth and air, that would give characters different defining characteristics.”

Kato-san adds: “Only having two distinctive elements to keep track of reduces the amount of information you need to process and thus allows you to concentrate on thinking about how to tackle the dungeon itself.

“We carefully tweaked the combinations of enemies you fight and the defence parameters to make sure that battles don’t become stale. It was hard work on the development side - balancing everything to have sufficient variation, so the game was simple, but not dull.”

Ito-san succinctly sums it up: “I thought that it would be easy to create the game if there were fewer attributes in the game. I was wrong.”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_14-emeqros0t.jpg

The focus on simplicity makes the battle system in DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS is extremely easy to understand. It also means that the development team were able to imbue battles with tactical depth beyond many other RPGs.

Kato-san says: “When you encounter enemies in battle, you first need to check their defence values and their formation. This will let you work out which attacks are best to use and what order to defeat them in.

The ‘just keep bashing the same button to muscle your way through’ kind of play you often get in RPGs won’t work here. This gives combat a feeling of thrill and danger, as you have to work out how to avoid all your characters dying each time.”

Of course, keeping fights strategically challenging throughout the game wasn’t easy - it’s something Ito-san and the team had to work incredibly hard on.

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_15-v6g65khg9.jpg

When it comes to balancing, Ito-san Excels
So how do you balance all the different values for the combat system and make sure each individual battle is fun? As Ito-san succinctly explains: “we used a spreadsheet”.

If Ito-san makes it sound simple, he’s just being humble - according to Kato-san, it was anything but.

“Ito-san entered all the formulas relating to battle into an Excel file and then referred to that as he adjusted the overall balance throughout the game in his head. The data was then reflected in-game. We also did repeated test plays - all through development he was tweaking the balancing like this.

“The volume of data involved in Dungeon Encounters was comparable to the numbered FINAL FANTASY games that Mr. Ito had worked on before, and he controlled all of it by himself. He really is the consummate master-craftsman!”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_5-neejdyd8r.jpg

Looking for guinea pigs
One particularly fun quirk of combat is the ability to turn characters into guinea pigs. It was something the team particularly wanted to be in the game.

Kato-san explains: “We wanted a transformation in the game - something to fill the same role as the ‘Toad’ spell in the FINAL FANTASY series.”

Ito-san adds: “We thought it would add a nice accent to have something cute like the pigs in FINAL FANTASY TACTICS. So I decided on the guinea pigs!”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_10-wo8zyci9w.jpg

An academy of characters
One of the unique aspects of DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS is the large cast of heroes you can add to your party. As with the rest of the game, these characters and their personalities were kept simple.

“One of the core development concepts for Dungeon Encounters was that it had to be straightforward and easy to understand,” says Kato-san. “Based on that philosophy, the character backgrounds were given a fairly orthodox ‘classic fantasy’ basis.

“However, what makes the selection stand out is there are a huge variety of different character types, including someone who has been transported to the dungeon from our world, a robot and even a giant cat!

“As you progress through the game, you’ll discover equipment that can only be used by specific characters, so you’re encouraged to try out all kinds of different party compositions and put together your own story with your own cast of heroes.”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_8-wkr9kp7r0.jpg

Although the heroes come in many different shapes and forms, they all have one thing in common: the incredible illustrations by Ryoma Ito (FINAL FANTASY TACTICS ADVANCE, FINAL FANTASY XII REVENANT WINGS, Heroes of Mana).

The variety of characters on offer is a testament to the imagination of the artist. As Kato-san explains:

“Once the function of the character in the game design has been confirmed, Mr. Hiroyuki Ito writes up a few lines of character background. He then hands those to Mr. Ryoma Ito, who does an awesome job of working the character up from that.”

The result is a game where every character is equally important. As Kato-san puts it: “You can say that all the characters are the main character. I want players to discover all the abandoned travellers in the dungeon and try out lots of different parties to put together their very own stories.”

Dungeon_Encounters_Screenshot_11-yg4ua4mug.jpg

Music maestro
The last element that really brings DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS together is the amazing music. Overseen by the legendary Nobuo Uematsu, it reinterprets classic themes to amazing effect. But how did Uematsu-san get involved in the first place?

“Around 30 years ago, I was talking to Uematsu-san about a new way to create music for games,” says Ito-san. “We thought we could create something interesting and unique if we used arrangements of famous classical music pieces. However, nothing had come of that idea since then.

“Personally, I’d kept wanting to use famous classical pieces for a new IP ever since then, and when we started work on DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS, I went straight to Mr. Uematsu to discuss him making the music for it.

“Unfortunately, it seemed he had completely forgotten about that earlier conversation!

“Still, he did remember again once we got talking, and everything progressed rapidly after that, with him coming on board for the project.”

Now that DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS is out in the wild, the team are excited for players to start uncovering its many secrets.

Kato-san says: “I hope players who enjoy the mechanics and systems of RPGs give our game a try.

“Have fun thinking your way through battles and experiencing the tension and excitement of delving into a perilous dungeon!”

Ito-san has the final word:

“Thank you for choosing my game. I wish you the best of luck playing it!”

DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS is available now for Nintendo Switch, PS4 and Steam.

 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,827
Best part of the game - retarded autism>stupid math puzzles. Checking my precious from time to time. Won't be able to equip it in any foreseable future but just having it in inventory warms my heart.

iRaqiHN.png
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,590
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I did some spelunking in the 70's, 80's and 90's regions. My party is suitable to explore level 50's region. Level 17 spells, encounter numbers and letters from hell. Collected some things, all the while feeling like this after surviving:
:evilcodex:

Never in my life have I felt this much fear for numbers and letters. Maybe during algebra lessons.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,590
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm done. 36 hours. Defeated the final boss, but haven't tried the super boss. Took me 36 hours. I explored every floor 90%+. I didn't solve every riddle and, I am missing a couple of party members.

All in all, I'd give the game an 8/10. Solid exploration, and abilities related to exploring. Well thought out encounter design. Character progressions is simple straight upgrades. If that's good or bad is subjective, but I can say that upgrades did feel impactful.

I don't love magic/physical defence a la Divinity 2, but the execution here is more straightforward. (Still don't love it.)
I know a lot of the design was made simpler to make it easier to grasp for more players, but I still miss elemental weaknesses and such.

I don't really have much else to say other than, I would probably buy a sequel if one is made.
 

Kalarion

Serial Ratist
Patron
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,008
Location
San Antonio, TX
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Bros, can Valtoro fly over pits?

I just got to the 80s. I've been slowly making my way floor by floor, not bothering to jump ahead with G Descension or anything. I fell into a pit with no tile beneath it, now I'm trying to find all my wanderers.

I gave up on the math puzzles after number 7 or so. The decimals of pi was... uhh... I could possibly be reasonably expected to figure that out I guess (I didn't). But periodic table substitution? The square root of 2? Superbowl scores?! Movie references?!

No. Since number 10 or so my policy is, find the riddle and look up the answer immediately. I'm still doing Map riddles the old-fashioned way though.

Still having fun, just toodling along. I'll probably beat it in a day or two.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,590
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I never used the dragon, but I doubt it.
 

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