Review New Wave Gaming drools all over KOTOR

[Northernlion]

It's ironic that RPGs let you be whoever you want, but their fans don't let you have an opinion.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The real irony is that there is a preference towards RPGs which limit the options of what you want to be, than a preference towards RPGs which have a more freeform approach to them.

 

[Transcendent One]

Well presented and backed-up opinions are likable no matter how much they match with your own, poorly constructed BS is worth a laugh or two, really poorly constructed BS comes like a stab to the brain. Just don't cross that line and you should be fine

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yep, opinions produced out of one's ass are dime a dozen, so trying to pass something stupid as an opinion won't score you any points here, but thanks for trying anyway. And since you know about RPGs and being whoever you want so much, I'm surprised you didn't mention the lack of these choices in your review :wink:

 

[Northernlion]

I don't wish to turn this into an argument, but you really haven't stated any evidence supporting your side either, so what's the point? Poorly constructed BS, if coming from our camp, is coming from yours as well on the very same subject.

 

[Northernlion]

The real irony is that there is a preference towards RPGs which limit the options of what you want to be, than a preference towards RPGs which have a more freeform approach to them.

Interesting perspective, and one that I agree on.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't wish to turn this into an argument, but you really haven't stated any evidence supporting your side either, so what's the point? Poorly constructed BS, if coming from our camp, is coming from yours as well on the very same subject.

Please forgive me the lack of manners, it's simply that we've discussed KOTOR good sides and bad sides so many times that I assumed that you're aware of the nature of the issues. Since you're not, what would you like to know? Why KOTOR's combat is not, in fact, turn-based? Why is it not much of an RPG? Why is it extremely linear despite the choice what planet to visit next? Ask and we'll do our best to explain why and support it with arguments.

 

[Brigtandier]

I really have to be the first, and most likely last, person to thank you for giving NWG such a nod. As a result of this pitiful attempt to mock my opinion, which last time I checked I am entitled to, you have give NWG some hits.

Next time you really want to hurt me, don't say what site you got it from. Then no one can go to it, give my review hits, and subsequently encourage me to write more reviews with my worthless retarded opinion. Thanks to your generous hits I am going to continue reviewing, omg! I will review now!

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3366, read that thread. Members of your own forum have given it a much higher score than I. And how is giving it an 8.6 overrating a game given near perfect scores at other sites?

 

[Northernlion]

I don't wish to turn this into an argument, but you really haven't stated any evidence supporting your side either, so what's the point? Poorly constructed BS, if coming from our camp, is coming from yours as well on the very same subject.

Please forgive me the lack of manners, it's simply that we've discussed KOTOR good sides and bad sides so many times that I assumed that you're aware of the nature of the issues. Since you're not, what would you like to know? Why KOTOR's combat is not, in fact, turn-based? Why is it not much of an RPG? Why is it extremely linear despite the choice what planet to visit next? Ask and we'll do our best to explain why and support it with arguments.

Perhaps if we ran a site devoted to one genre, like this one, that information would be on the forefront of readers' minds. However, we're trying to appeal to the mainstream gamer who has absolutely no knowledge of D&D Rules, how many planets there are in the Star Wars universe, and how many hit points a drunk halfling has, unlike you guys. For the sake of coherency, our review was a bit dumbed-down for our readers. Sure, we could've gone extremely in-depth about what makes the D20 system tick, but that's like telling a blind person what colour his bedroom is.

There's absolutely no point to this discussion at all. You have your opinions and we have ours, just let it be.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I really have to be the first, and most likely last, person to thank you for giving NWG such a nod

Anything to help a fellow game enthusiast

As a result of this pitiful attempt to mock my opinion, which last time I checked I am entitled to...

Of course, you are entitled to an opinion, we just thought it was silly

Next time you really want to hurt me, don't say what site you got it from. Then no one can go to it, give my review hits, and subsequently encourage me to write more reviews with my worthless retarded opinion. Thanks to your generous hits I am going to continue reviewing, omg! I will review now!

Dude, you have some deep unresolved issues. Nobody cares about you, nobody wants to hurt you, and nobody called your opinion worthless and retarded. I said it's full of shit, there is a clear difference. So, by all means, continue reviewing, if you are going to be more objective in the future, we'll say so, if not, well, we will let you know where you failed :wink:

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3366, read that thread. Members of your own forum have given it a much higher score than I. And how is giving it an 8.6 overrating a game given near perfect scores at other sites?

First of all, what? It's a gameguru review, and nobody from the codex gave it a score there. Second, it wasn't about the score you've given, the score was fair, imo. All the comments were directed at some of the things you said like turn-based combat, the best story of the century, the first truly great SW game, etc.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I really have to be the first, and most likely last, person to thank you for giving NWG such a nod. As a result of this pitiful attempt to mock my opinion, which last time I checked I am entitled to, you have give NWG some hits.

When any opinion is made public, its bound to be interpreted and commented by others; after all, freedom of speech does not terminate freedom of thought. Note that opinions are not holy cows. No one said you weren't entitled to your opinion; someone, however, suggested that your opinion was built on some wrong notions, and as i'm sure you know, opinions are not isent of being wrong.

Next time you really want to hurt me, don't say what site you got it from. Then no one can go to it, give my review hits, and subsequently encourage me to write more reviews with my worthless retarded opinion. Thanks to your generous hits I am going to continue reviewing, omg! I will review now!

It's somewhat of an established rule to anyone who belongs to a staff of a news sites to point out their sources. In fact, the staff of this site hasn't made anything wrong by pointing out NWG and the work of its contributors, your review included. Seems weird that doing one's job of pointing out news sources and other site's works is harmful. No need to thanks us for having placed the spotlight over your work, it comes with the job, same as dealing with people who can't bear the thought of having their opinions refuted.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3366, read that thread. Members of your own forum have given it a much higher score than I.

Notice the difference between forum members and staff members. Like any other site with message boards, the content posted by non-staff members does not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the staff; as such, we're free to trade impressions about the game, and given the internet is a large and diversified place, we're sure to have a gathering of like-minded (though not equal) minds giving their input. Should what our forum members post reflect the ideas of the staff? I hardly think so, and i think it's strange that you try to make it such. I specially find it weird that you would expect us to think the rating you proposed on your review should be accepted by us because people who are not connected to the site in any official manner, but merely post on it, have a differing opinion. Or is it because the opinion of some here approaches yours?

And how is giving it an 8.6 overrating a game given near perfect scores at other sites?

As pointed out by one of the staff members, it's been discussed several times here the pros and cons of Knights of the Old Republic, and the truth remains that, although it may be considered Bioware's best game to date, we believe it presents some elements which prevent it from being worthy of receiving the high praise it gets.

Also, why should other site's reviews have any bearing on your personal review?

 

[Northernlion]

But they're all based on opinion (apart from turn-based comment, which I'll admit was a fallacy on my part), and for that reason alone the argument is pointless. The more both of us post just shows the futility of it. I'll admit that I'm always up for a good debate, but this one is beyond pointless. If you want to insult another one of our reviews, please have the guts to e-mail your complaints to us, instead of relying on us finding this page on a search engine.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Perhaps if we ran a site devoted to one genre, like this one, that information would be on the forefront of readers' minds. However, we're trying to appeal to the mainstream gamer who has absolutely no knowledge of D&D Rules, how many planets there are in the Star Wars universe, and how many hit points a drunk halfling has, unlike you guys. For the sake of coherency, our review was a bit dumbed-down for our readers. Sure, we could've gone extremely in-depth about what makes the D20 system tick, but that's like telling a blind person what colour his bedroom is.

There's absolutely no point to this discussion at all. You have your opinions and we have ours, just let it be.

It wasn't about your knowledge of DnD, it was about some common non-DnD sense that even a mainstream gamer can dig, like the limited number of choices (you can't join or do missions for the Sith), the linear nature of gameplay, being forced to do quests in certain order in ceratin way (you have to wait for Canderous to tell you about the robot, and only then you can go to the store and get it, and only then you can open the door to the Military Base, etc), the lame Dark Side (do I have to play all the silly games in the Academy, when I know that I'm Revan), the lightsabers being blocked by anything even a tribal stick, the nerfed ranged weapons, etc.

Anyway, if you want to let it be, it's fine with me. I posted some examples above only to give you something to think about.

 

[Northernlion]

the lightsabers being blocked by anything even a tribal stick

Last time I checked, they near-fixed that in Jedi Academy and people complained that it was too easy. I'd rather have a tougher game than one that completely replicated the Star Wars experience.

Anyway, sure, I'll let it die.

 

[mr. lamat]

how many hitpoints does a drunk halfling have? i'm guessing he'd get a +10 bite of grevious nut-wounding, but does he get a hitpoint bonus?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

But they're all based on opinion (apart from turn-based comment, which I'll admit was a fallacy on my part), and for that reason alone the argument is pointless. The more both of us post just shows the futility of it. I'll admit that I'm always up for a good debate, but this one is beyond pointless. If you want to insult another one of our reviews, please have the guts to e-mail your complaints to us, instead of relying on us finding this page on a search engine.

There are many things that aren't based on opinion that are definitely problems with KotOR. The interface doesn't work nearly as well as any other PC CRPG to come out in the last five years. The only PC CRPG to have one as bad that I can think of would be Gothic, but BioWare has previous games with much better interfaces. This should be obvious by the inability to move more than one party member in combat at a time as well as the inventory screen.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

the lightsabers being blocked by anything even a tribal stick

Last time I checked, they near-fixed that in Jedi Academy and people complained that it was too easy. I'd rather have a tougher game than one that completely replicated the Star Wars experience.

Notice that lightsabers cutting trough almost every material in existence is not something that needs to be changed a game. That's the item's nature; in fact, it's something which is inherent to the setting and is - or should be - unchangeable. I understand the desire of people wanting a harder game experience, but this is changing an element which should not be changed. The irony is that even while lightsabers are neutered and are pretty much blocked by everything, melee combat still isn't hard because of that.

 

[Jed]

You want to know what's uber-ironic?: critics who can't handle criticism.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

You want to know what's uber-ironic?: critics who can't handle criticism.

Zing!

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

You want to know what's uber-ironic?: critics who can't handle criticism.

No kidding! :shock:

 

[Northernlion]

You want to know what's uber-ironic?: critics who can't handle criticism.

I'll give you that one, quite clever. I'm still elated that a site run by 15-year olds was considered important enough to be posted on here, you made my day, really. :D

 

[Volourn]

Oh? You mean the RPGCodexers. Just read the stuff with Gromnir, and see how quickly RPGCodexers "can't handle criticism" as they make fun of Gromnir's "writing style" when that is basically irrelevant.

And, oh, one last thing for everyone:

INTERNET DRAMA!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Oh? You mean the RPGCodexers. Just read the stuff with Gromnir, and see how quickly RPGCodexers "can't handle criticism" as they make fun of Gromnir's "writing style" when that is basically irrelevant.

Gromnir attacked me if I'm not mistaken, and I never said anything offensive about him or his writing style. Some people who were reading the thread made some comments about it and that was it. So, what's up with making stuff up and blowing events out of proportion?

 

[Jed]

I'll give you that one, quite clever. I'm still elated that a site run by 15-year olds was considered important enough to be posted on here, you made my day, really. :D

Fifteen would explain the defensiveness...

 

[Volourn]

Did I say VD only? Weird... I say RPGCodexers which means in general. Gromnir not only critiqued you; but others as well and many of these others decided it was best to attack his posting style thinking it was cool. Youa re one of the more"calm, cool, and collected" people here most of the time so I generalizing which everyone does. Youc an sue me for it; but you won't get rich that way.