NWN 2 : No forced attack on NPC option?

[RK47]

Is there a way to kill friendly NPCs in NWN2?
I can't seem to kill this gang leader who paid me some gold to let him go. Usually when playing chaotic chars, I'd play a jerk who accepts a deal but breaks it immediately, but I cant' seem to do it in NWN unless the game allows it through Dialogue options.

e.g
1. (Lie) Drop your sword, and I'll let you go
2. (Truth) Drop your sword, and I'll let you go

In my case, I had no Lie option only an Intimidate option
1.(Intimidate) I can let you go if you give me the same amount of gold as the bounty.
2. I'm here to collect a bounty on your head *Attacks*

If I kill the guy outright, I'd get the sword but no gold in his pocket wtf?

 

[Inziladun]

You have to be in a PvP zone to outright attack people, and sadly there are no PvP zones in the OC.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

In NWN1, at least, you had to be on Hardcore Rules difficulty. Then there were no friendly NPCs, only neutral ones.

 

[Volourn]

"You have to be in a PvP zone to outright attack people, and sadly there are no PvP zones in the OC."

Bullshit. The problem is that in the NWN2 OC, Obsidian simply does not allow to force attack any non hostiles. It works exactly like the lameo KOTORs and the otherwise solid JE in that way. You can only attack hostiles or those you syart fights with through dialogue.

I've been in tons of PvP areas in the NWN2 OC. that's how you can fireball yoru own allies. Morons.

 

[Wulfgar]

Is there a way to kill friendly NPCs in NWN2?
I can't seem to kill this gang leader who paid me some gold to let him go. Usually when playing chaotic chars, I'd play a jerk who accepts a deal but breaks it immediately, but I cant' seem to do it in NWN unless the game allows it through Dialogue options.

e.g
1. (Lie) Drop your sword, and I'll let you go
2. (Truth) Drop your sword, and I'll let you go

In my case, I had no Lie option only an Intimidate option
1.(Intimidate) I can let you go if you give me the same amount of gold as the bounty.
2. I'm here to collect a bounty on your head *Attacks*

If I kill the guy outright, I'd get the sword but no gold in his pocket wtf?

Welcome to the NWN2 experience. It sucks and often makes no sense. Advice for the future - don't try to role-play your character (a flip-floping jerk? that's a no-no) and don't try to break away from the tight pattern the developers thought of for resolving situations. Or at least, that is my impression so far...

Also, rewarding in this game is fucking retarded. This is the bandits near Fort Locke situation, right? These are your options:

1. Deal with bandits through conversation without using any speech skills - highest xp gain.
2. Deal with bandits through conversation and use youre ubar speech skill to get 300 gold at the cost of receiving less xp. (!?)
3. Kill bandits to get less xp than 1 (and possibly 2, dependant on your lvl) and ph4t l3wt (but without the gold, probably because the bandit leader stashed it in his ass, and the game logicaly assumes you don't search there once you kill him).

 

[OccupatedVoid]

It works exactly like the lameo KOTORs...

That was the reason KOTOR sucked, you couldn't kill NPCs who pissed you off. Now the sucktard plague has spread to NWN2. We must 'persuade' Obsidian to add this functionality in a patch or NWN2 will slowly wither away.

 

[Nick the Imperial]

DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OccupatedVoid]

DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Soon-2B-Dumbfuck has returned. You get to be Volourn's bitch.(That's not good Volourn. He has Down's Syndrome)

 

[LCJr.]

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/search.ph ... e+Imperial

So this is the noble champion of the ESF forums?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

sadly there are no PvP zones in the OC.

What do you mean? There are plenty PvP zones in the OC.

+

 

[RK47]

This has got nothing to do with PvP zone or not, it's just that the devs implemented a restrictive gameplay design that doesn't let players to attack NPC at will. I understand the problem when some guy will try to kill Lord Nasher, the simple solution is just give plot NPCs the Lord British powers of Ultima. And nobody would complain too much since they play for the plot anyway.

But why can't I side with some orcs and attack the militia camp instead, or simply butcher both sides cause I'm a crazed bard from hell?

Nevermind, I guess I'll wait for a module to implement a better RP experience.

 

[Inziladun]

Excuse me, apparently I don't know what i'm talking about. Everytime I bothered to check when I zoned into an area, it said that PvP was deactivated, I just assumed it was a PvP issue.

 

[Volourn]

Because you likely weren't playing in Hardcore mode.

 

[aweigh]

I would like to applaud DarkUnderlord's knowledge of pop culture. I thought you were very funny there! Hee.

 

[Faustus]

My impression is you are just along for the ride. Just pick a random dialogue option, watch the cutscenes, and kill and collect things along the way. Yippee.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Soon-2B-Dumbfuck has returned. You get to be Volourn's bitch.(That's not good Volourn. He has Down's Syndrome)

Down as in 'face down'?

 

[sabishii]

Because you likely weren't playing in Hardcore mode.

Do you feel so mpathetic you need to pull this bullshit to make yourself feel better? LMAO Just like the BIO boards. Whenever someone says the game is easy they're accused of playing on 'normal' difficulty. Fuck that. Normal is wusses. I play on hardcore, and it's still fuckin' easy.

 

[Volourn]

Eh? You read the thread? We weren't talkin' difficulty. Moron.

 

[Zomg]

Having the option to kill NPCs without providing any consequence structure is stupid, so who cares. The Man With No Name plots are the only thing compatible with it.

 

[Crichton]

I haven't tried to assasinate Lord Nasher or whatnot, but after reading this thread, I loaded up the game and the first friendly NPC I found (a "Neverwinter Mage", I'm clearing out "Crossroad Keep") had an "attack" option in the pulldown menu. Maybe they disabled it for potential quest-givers?

I remember that the first NWN allowed you to attack plot-critical NPCs but they just laughed it off; weren't harmed and didn't even get upset.

 

[Volourn]

That was silly too; but at least they did allow you to kill 'non critical' npcs. of course, ideally, everything would be open game.

ie. In NWN1, if you wnated to attack Aribeth who was a high level paladin at the start; you'd simply get slaughtered by her. Game over. Reload. Go on. R00fles!

 

[RGE]

1. Deal with bandits through conversation without using any speech skills - highest xp gain.
2. Deal with bandits through conversation and use youre ubar speech skill to get 300 gold at the cost of receiving less xp. (!?)
3. Kill bandits to get less xp than 1 (and possibly 2, dependant on your lvl) and ph4t l3wt (but without the gold, probably because the bandit leader stashed it in his ass, and the game logicaly assumes you don't search there once you kill him).

I really hate it when I'm punished for using skills rather than rewarded. That's really bad game design. If something requires a skill it should damn well yield more XP than something which requires no skill.

Though I suppose that XP could be tied to results, and perhaps the best result comes out of a dialogue option that happens to require no skill? Maybe the opportunity to use the speech skill is just a little trap for skill-happy players who go for anything which lets their characters use their skills? Another excuse I can think of would be if the non-skill option might not require skill in the dialogue, but is only availible because of previous actions which did require (an even higher) skill and wasn't rewarded with XP at the time of those actions (such as combat would surely have been).

 

[RK47]

the flaw lies with DND ability to just add any skill u want regardless if you spend your time clobbereing 10000 orcs, you can still improve diplomacy. Just imagine running 10,000 miles and improving your social skills IRL, it just doesn't make sense.

I find it very unrealistic, but hardly any realistic dialogue-skill levelling system exist in RPG. Let's look at the done wrong examples:
-Fallout You kill 500 rats and improve Speech skill by 30% on lvl up

Bethesda tried to do it ...but it came out really retarded and the skill is meaningless except for the aibility to bribe more lol If they polished that turd a bit it might smell better.

 

[Wulfgar]

I really hate it when I'm punished for using skills rather than rewarded. That's really bad game design. If something requires a skill it should damn well yield more XP than something which requires no skill.

IMHO, it should yield the same amount of xp. Fighting is a skill, too. It should be up to the player to decide how he wants it done. The end result should be the only thing that counts. Talk to it, sneak by it, kill it... whatever. You resolved the situation by using your character's skills and are rewarded xp points that you will probably use to further the advancment of said skills, effectively making it seem like you advanced them through practice.

Though I suppose that XP could be tied to results, and perhaps the best result comes out of a dialogue option that happens to require no skill? Maybe the opportunity to use the speech skill is just a little trap for skill-happy players who go for anything which lets their characters use their skills?

Why would the developers want to "trap" and punish the players that are trying to roleplay their character? It makes no sense to me... if they wanted the reward to be variable they should have at least presented us with a rational approach to it.

Another excuse I can think of would be if the non-skill option might not require skill in the dialogue, but is only availible because of previous actions which did require (an even higher) skill and wasn't rewarded with XP at the time of those actions (such as combat would surely have been).

You lost me. I don't see how it would apply to this case. You basicaly plow through the bandit camp and the "headquarters" killing everything on sight (and geting the xp for it) and finally meet their leader where one of the 3 scenarios I described develops.

the flaw lies with DND ability to just add any skill u want regardless if you spend your time clobbereing 10000 orcs, you can still improve diplomacy. Just imagine running 10,000 miles and improving your social skills IRL, it just doesn't make sense.

Not quite. The DnD utilizes a class system that penalizes the character that tries to roleplay their character out of tune. For example, the fighter class doesn't get speech skills as class skills meaning that they need to spend more skill points raising a non-class skill and are severely limited in how high they can raise it (1/2 of current level?) which effectively discourages them do so, which in turn makes it so they have to fight for their xp, as they should. So, in the end, you probably wont improve your social skills on level up. You'll improve the skills that will further your fighting ways. The system works, as long as no one class approach has a higher xp yield than the others.

 

[RK47]

....that still makes no sense when a thief who doesn't kill but spent time just pickpocketing for a year doesn't 'level up' in-game. If it's PnP I can understand some DM giving a little XP so players would take risk when using their skills (I'm not familiar with PnP) but what I argue is DND CRPG is just flawed. Fallout does reward successfully pickpocketing n first aid, so yes it's good.

PS:T breaks it by introducing huge reward thru dialogue. But that game focused on different things.