NWN2 Mod - XP Poll

[oldmanpaco]

There is a theory out there that XP should only be awarded by finishing quests. Killing creatures (unless that is the quest) is secondary to actually completing the mission. This should encourage people to look for solutions other than ‘kill everything’.

This method also makes it easier to balance the game if you have any respawning monsters/enemies as it discourages XP farming.

The down side of this is that people expect to be rewarded for killing things and could be irritated by the disappearance of that reward.

 

[racofer]

The down side of this is that people expect to be rewarded for killing things and could be irritated by the disappearance of that reward.

Like we need such kind of people?

If anything, this kind of system differentiates players from grinders.

 

[Sceptic]

No respawning enemies = no grinding = easy to balance. There, problem solved.

 

[oldmanpaco]

No respawning enemies = no grinding = easy to balance. There, problem solved.

The problem lies in the overland map system. Do you implement random encounters or only have a set number of fixed encounters.

 

[JarlFrank]

I think that killing a multiheaded dick is the experience of your life, so yes.

 

[Murk]

XP for certain kills, like quest related enemies or for hidden special/unique enemies, but otherwise keep it for quests and actual experiences your characters have. Diving into details in the Hidden Library nets you some, disarming traps nets you some, avoiding hostile encounters with skills nets you some, etc.

I've always been an advocate of XP for accomplishments and special kills only. It may be somewhat difficult to balance for a D&D system tho

 

[Roguey]

Can I roleplay as someone who can avoid most or all of the combat? Then no XP for killing enemies. If I have to chop my way through a fair amount, getting experience for it is fine with me.

 

[Sceptic]

The problem lies in the overland map system. Do you implement random encounters or only have a set number of fixed encounters.

I thought I had answered this, but apparently I haven't.

I hadn't thought of the overland map, and now I see the problem. An overland map with fixed encounters feels kinda silly... but random encounters bring up the problem of XP and grinding. Although, of course, you could solve this problem by negating XP rewards from the overland map entirely. This will work if and only if you implement a system similar to SOZ's for avoiding random encounters on the overland map entirely (of course if you also go the SOZ way and have random encounters sprinkled with the occasional fixed one, the fixed ones could still have XP, given for both peaceful and violent solutions). This way you eliminate grinding (because there is no point in doing it), encourage overland map skils (again because there's nothing to gain from fighting) and keep it easy to balance the rest of the game.

Whether the above is a good idea or not ultimately depends on your design ideas for the overland map, IMO.

 

[J1M]

Experience for killing results in a mentality of killing everything the player meets. As fun as genocide might be for most people, it often railroads the kinds of interaction the player will have with NPCs.

 

[commie]

No XP for killing. It results in every character type devolving into a genocidal maniac just to grind for the extras.

 

[denizsi]

If the victim is 2+ levels of the PC, yes. If not, no.

If it's a creature/animal the PC faces for the first time ever, regardless of its rarity or being commonplace to general population, yes. If not, no.

If the encounter poses a situation the PC experiences for the first time (eg. being waylaid/ambushed or ambushing others as a choice in travel map or surviving a pack or band of wild animals or robbers where the opposing group consists of 6+ or (party size x 1.5) ), then yes. If not, no.

Anything to make it worthwhile and memorable without devolving into grind.

 

[oldmanpaco]

If the victim is 2+ levels of the PC, yes. If not, no.

If it's a creature/animal the PC faces for the first time ever, regardless of its rarity or being commonplace to general population, yes. If not, no.

If the encounter poses a situation the PC experiences for the first time (eg. being waylaid/ambushed or ambushing others as a choice in travel map or surviving a pack or band of wild animals or robbers where the opposing group consists of 6+ or (party size x 1.5) ), then yes. If not, no.

Anything to make it worthwhile and memorable without devolving into grind.

Good ideas but sounds like a real bitch to script.

If we don't give XP for monsters then I would almost need to eliminate random encounters on the OM. I personally would find being forced to fight with no reward very irritating.

 

[Sceptic]

If we don't give XP for monsters then I would almost need to eliminate random encounters on the OM. I personally would find being forced to fight with no reward very irritating.

That's why you keep a party of 6 and all the OM skills from SOZ. One ranger or rogue (or maybe even druid?) and the OM random encounters are no longer a problem.

 

[denizsi]

Fighting for your life isn't worth anything now. New age punks.

How about auto-resolve for repeated encounters + bonuses to avoid being hurt in auto-resolve as you experience the same kinds of encounters?

Maybe diminishing XP for repeated encounters too, just so that it's worth more than your life now.

 

[BethesdaLove]

If possible, make the level ups timewise equally far apart.

You know how the amount of needed xp for lvl up increases with every lvl gained and you spend more and more time ingame to gain one additional level? I fucking hate it. If anything the frequency of level ups should increase towards the endgame.

 

[denizsi]

Why?

 

[chzr]

Depends. ME2 has no xp from enemies and there's infinite number until you hit script. That's totally wrong...

It's more about well designed combat. Also having interesting and rewarding quests so grinding, if possible, is not worth it.

 

[Malakal]

Give xp for few first kills of a kind and unique enemies only. If this is impossible to implement then reward completing tasks. But the best way would be to reward xp for kills to be spent only on combat stats...

 

[BethesdaLove]

Why?

Was that a question for me?

Because slowing down level ups breaks pacing. You know that classical dramatic structure with Freytag's pyramid? The feeling of progress should accelerate towards the end. Level ups, new loot are an integral part of that experience. What you usually get is you being stuck with your optimal gear and level 18 or something. The feeling of progress stagnates.

 

[denizsi]

That's silly when applied to character advancement.

I don't think you understand your own reference (faggot's pyroids) properly too.

 

[BethesdaLove]

Damn, caught. I actually abstracted the freytag's pyramid into the mathematical realm. When the graph is rising or falling, the derivative indicates "movement"/action and in the middle you have a plateau where nothing is happening.

I dont think its silly though. Fundamentally, a level up is an additional "gameplay" element. Something for your brain to do. Munchkin entertaiment too. Progression and all that.
Now if they start to happen far more rarely, you delude the experience. Especially at the end of the game where your story moves towards the the climax.

Examples:

Fallout: when you hit high levels and have a powerarmor, the joy of loot or levelups disappears cause the first ones happen take a long time and your loot is pretty much the best. Gameplay wise the game is chewed through and you are doing boring sidequests.

Kotor1: forced myself through it, 2 things I remember. Horrendous amount of running around and crashing on some shit planet while on the way to the lions den. Practically kills in an instant the final showdown by introducing boring shit area while you are high level and geared up.

BG2: nice thing about 6 characters on high levels is that levelups dont occurs simultaneously so you have always something to do.

Generally endgame ends up being slow compared to the beginning and exponential increases of xp needed for lvl up dont help.

 

[oldmanpaco]

If there is no XP for killing monsters, 75% of people say no, then leveling up becomes easy to manage. You pick a max level you want the characters to be at when they reach a milestone and don't offer any more XP from side quests until that milestone is passed.

Say each completed side quests gives 500 XP and each completed milestone gives 1000 XP. Now it’s easy to determine when you should make side quests available and what level of difficulty side quests and milestones should be.

Although I do think there should be a few god-awful difficult encounters/quests hanging out there that will generally kill the party. If they somehow manage to pass this test then they get the bonus xp/equipment/rewards that will make the next levels a bit easier. Sort of like that Red Dragon in BG2.

 

[Murk]

Yes, I'd also say that occasionally there should be an encounter that you simply must fight through and that is hard, and requires you to use your party's assets in clever ways. This isn't fallout or arcanum, as much as non-combat solutions are loved a proper encounter is still much more fun than having a dude with ranks in the speech skills and a charisma of 18 or what have you.

Unfortunately the NWN 2 engine makes for such deep encounters to become messes more so than tactical situations... like say the hill giant in ToEE.

 

[MetalCraze]

Less shitty NWN2 combat please (aka no XP from enemies unless bosses or something of that kind). Thx