Paizo Publishing sends 'heart warming' response to transgender fan

[Jonathan Wojcik]

I actually had to sign up to this board JUST to say how fucking appalled I am at the ignorant, narrow-minded rhetoric in this thread.

You realize most of you are echoing the attitudes of the kind of bible-thumping, right-wing hicks gamers traditionally seem to believe they are better than, right? You all seem to pride yourselves on some sort of "intelligence," yet you somehow weren't aware that transgender people have <i>always existed</i>, are not "new," are not a mental "sickness" or "political propaganda," and are not going to hurt your precious hobby, right?

Some of you need to grow the fuck up.

 

[Jasede]

lol

I've never been on a board with as many openly out trannies as the Codex. Holy shit, my boyfriend was one. Shut the fuck up.

 

[deuxhero]

You had too many potatoes Wojcik. You're drunk, go sober up.

 

[buzz]

Jonathan Wojcik, are you the guy that used to write animal-related articles on cracked? I liked many of those.

 

[mindx2]

lol

I've never been on a board with as many openly out trannies as the Codex. Holy shit, my boyfriend was one. Shut the fuck up.

Exactly! It's got nothing to do with who you are. I just don't want developers to go through a SJW checklist every time they start making a game. Man, I'm not, nor would I ever, demand characters with only half their arms and legs just so I can be "represented" and feel better about myself!

It's a game for crying out loud... not a sociology/ psychology experiment/ crusade!!

 

[King Arthur]

Well, there is a tendency for people to activate stress hormones indiscriminate of whether they are running from a lion or arguing about politics. So naturally people will be overly concerned whenever political opinions enter a situation; it is like being chased by a lion. That is why political opinions are unhealthy and should not be welcome outside of political arenas. If they are injected into everything people will get ulcers.

 

[buzz]

, I'm not, nor would I ever, demand characters with only half their arms and legs just so I can be "represented" and feel better about myself!

Check your privilege!

 

[catfood]

I actually had to sign up to this board JUST to say how fucking appalled I am at the ignorant, narrow-minded rhetoric in this thread.

You realize most of you are echoing the attitudes of the kind of bible-thumping, right-wing hicks gamers traditionally seem to believe they are better than, right? You all seem to pride yourselves on some sort of "intelligence," yet you somehow weren't aware that transgender people have <i>always existed</i>, are not "new," are not a mental "sickness" or "political propaganda," and are not going to hurt your precious hobby, right?

Some of you need to grow the fuck up.

'sup Drog.

 

[Night Goat]

Jonathan Wojcik, are you the guy that used to write animal-related articles on cracked? I liked many of those.

He left Cracked because they edited his articles, because "Cracked thinks bugs are icky". This conflicts with Wojcik's view that bugs are awesome. Check out his site, there's a lot more articles there.

Jonathan Wojcik, if you are the same guy, I've really enjoyed your articles and I hope you stick around on the Codex. I really don't think the Codex has a higher proportion of transphobes than the general population - but because we have considerably more freedom of speech than other sites, the users who are transphobic don't have to hide it. If you had access to General Discussion, you'd see that a tranny porn/appreciation thread is sticky'd there.

 

[Goat Vomit]

are not a mental "sickness"

You shouldn't talk that way about the mentally ill, implying it's bad and stuffies, you could offend and trigger some people here. You mental ableist schizophobe. Being able to talk to a machine god and hearing voices does not make you have less as a person or mean that you shouldn't get representation, intoleramus. If anything is offensive here it's your bigoted ass.

nomask7

 

[Jonathan Wojcik]

I guess when I say "most of you" are being assholes I really mean 90% Broseph. Is he always like that?

It's just absurd to cry "political correctness run amok" over something perfectly natural in the real world and not remotely out of place at all in a fantasy setting. Modern Western culture has a much bigger stick up its ass about gender than a lot of older civilizations and real mythology is teeming with characters who didn't fit today's view of how the sexes are "supposed" to be defined. As it is, sexuality in fantasy RPG settings is kind of absurdly eurocentric. Why would rigid definitions of gender even survive at all in a setting with magic?

More importantly, why would anybody feel the need to complain and criticize them for adding a character specifically to appeal to fans who fit a particular demographic? Does everything like that have to be a matter of either "ugh cheap marketing tactic, obviously just for brownie points" or "oh no it's the tumblr social justice apocalypse?" Like maybe sometimes these things are actually just cool, nice gestures and a step in a good direction.

But nah I didn't leave Cracked, and I didn't have a problem with their editing usually, I just had to explain it in a disclaimer because I'd get so many messages like "why do you like animals on this site but hate them on Cracked?" Mostly, I just ran out of any article ideas they would want anymore, they're always tightening their standards and evolving.

 

[Jasede]

You got a cool website, dude.
But it makes me think you have a fetish for monsters.

 

[Night Goat]

I guess when I say "most of you" are being assholes I really mean 90% Broseph. Is he always like that?

Broseph was actually one of the most tolerant members of the community, himself a bisexual. Unfortunately he was possessed by a djinn that made him post inane things, and has now been banned. It's kind of a long story.

 

[King Arthur]

As it is, sexuality in fantasy RPG settings is kind of absurdly eurocentric.

That is probably because the people who make them are American and European, not Igbo. If they were Igbo, you might find their beliefs to be more male biased, chauvinistic and intolerant than what you are used to. I do not like hearing from people like you, who wear their political opinions on their sleeves, because you are generally passionate, obtrusive, and not very informative on the subjects you touch upon. Rather than say things that are concrete and factual, you will vaguely touch on a number of things merely to make your argument appear impressive. Reading your post, I come away with no facts. You are trying to persuade me to your way of thinking, but you use no facts to do so. You are full of hollow rhetoric, just like any other politically minded person. That is why politics are no good. They are about using obnoxious tactics to get people to agree with you, not filling peoples heads with information and letting them choose for themselves. Politics is the opposite of education, it is indoctrination, and all of the ideas are stupid.

 

[Night Goat]

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a fantasy setting where trasgendered people are more accepted than they are in modern western cultures. The default Pathfinder setting has regions that are based on Africa and Asia, but more importantly it's a world where magic exists and is very common. If people were changing their genders ever since the dawn of history, society would have had a lot of time to get transphobia out of its system.

 

[King Arthur]

There is no problem with that. If you are in a creative capacity: get creative. What I dislike is when politics show up (particularly the SJW slant) and there are big, righteous arguments about how so-and-so creative people in such-in-such industry ought to be open minded, like these prehistoric tribesmen I read about on some blog, who had three genders, gay marriage up the wazoo ...

My slant is that politics are best internalised, or else discussed with friends in a civil way. They are too stupid and flippant to discuss in a righteous way, like in a debate. It all depends on your perspective, what is right and wrong. It's an unhappy bi product of the internet, that people on the internet are so invested in debates and political nonsense. It is the most ridiculous thing, when you have these gazillion people across the globe deploring entertainment products because they, the oh-so-important video game aficionados, got it into their heads that the creators 'have an agenda'.

I won't disagree or agree with Jonathan's views. It's his style that bothers me.

Spoiler

Modern Western culture has a much bigger stick up its ass about gender than a lot of older civilizations and real mythology is teeming with characters who didn't fit today's view of how the sexes are "supposed" to be defined.

Stuff like this, stuff that the author obviously isn't very knowledgeable about and only threw in because he wants to bolster his argument with vague ideas he heard on some blog or otherwise stumbled across. Give me someone who can write at length on the Igbo and their attitude towards gender. Don't give me this vague, wikipedia gospel where "real mythology is teeming with characters who don't fit today's view of how the sexes are "supposed" to be defined." I mean, I'm sure you could come up with a whole bunch of mythological characters like that, but what I'm asking for is not random trivia. I'm asking for someone with an understanding of what they are talking about.

 

[nomask7]

are not a mental "sickness"

You shouldn't talk that way about the mentally ill, implying it's bad and stuffies, you could offend and trigger some people here. You mental ableist schizophobe. Being able to talk to a machine god and hearing voices does not make you have less as a person or mean that you shouldn't get representation, intoleramus. If anything is offensive here it's your bigoted ass.

nomask7

So edgy. You should become a eugenicist or something. I mean, becoming a nazi is the logical conclusion, right? You're just too much of a pussy to become one in this social climate.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I actually had to sign up to this board JUST to say how fucking appalled I am at the ignorant, narrow-minded rhetoric in this thread.

You realize most of you are echoing the attitudes of the kind of bible-thumping, right-wing hicks gamers traditionally seem to believe they are better than, right? You all seem to pride yourselves on some sort of "intelligence," yet you somehow weren't aware that transgender people have <i>always existed</i>, are not "new," are not a mental "sickness" or "political propaganda," and are not going to hurt your precious hobby, right?

Some of you need to grow the fuck up.

So you're basically saying that you are appalled by the lack of censorship on this site and everyone should have the same views as you? Being truly accepting of others means allowing them to speak their mind even when you disagree. In the worst case scenarios, you can always ignore the people who offend you. In this particular case, I think many of us scratched our heads at the mention of transgendered characters, because we've played in games for decades where that was always an option. In a setting where Alter Self, Polymorph, and Reincarnation are available, these kinds choices have always been considered normal. What Paizo has done smells like a cheap marketing gimmick to some, and with good reason. I would venture to guess a good 20% of the role players I've met are a part of the LGBT community, and specifically targeting them is a calculated decision. Calling Paizo out on this is not my version of intolerance, but if you disagree, then that's perfectly fine.

Edit: I changed Smelled to Smells.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Hear hear, LeStryfe79.
And let it be known that I have never had any qualms with trannies.
But, as LeStryfe said, what Paizo did seemed more like a sales pitch than anything else.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Jonathan Wojcik

Have a fucking heart!

 

[Jonathan Wojcik]

See, the thing about "everyone has the right to express their opinion" is that it also extends to criticism of those opinions. Of course you have the right to say what you want...and other people have the right to say that you're an asshole for it; that's not "censorship," it's just reality. Am I "censoring" someone if I tell them not to shit on my couch, even though they REALLY want to and it doesn't actually "hurt me?" No, I'm just making a very reasonable request that they conduct themselves more like a person and less like a gross baby, is all.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

You could stop being such a faggot.

 

[Grunker]

Am I "censoring" someone if I tell them not to shit on my couch

Of course not. But usually, claims like yours are followed up by the demand that moderation take action. For some reason, you feel you need a talking-police, a thing that would be absurd IRL.

This place has plenty of racists, idiots, nutjobs and bigots and there's even plenty of apologetic bullshit extended to them by the defendants rallying to their cause in this thread. The fact is that I don't think any of that is cause to artifically silence them. That's like stabbing yourself in the eye when you see a car crash. Biggotry and hatred doesn't spread because bigots and hateful people get to spout their idiocy. In fact, the obvious is often true, evidenced by all the wonders a ban against nazism has bestowed upon Germany. Ignorance doesn't disappear because because you put a lid on it in the public space.

Your original post is completely true, it's just that acting appalled and offended about it won't get you very far. Probably the entire reason the Codex has so many trannies running openly about and being fairly accepted comparatively is because we don't shut down their otherness via moderation, just as we don't shut down the right-wing nutters. It's a diverse world out their, chum, and it doesn't stop being that if you glue your eye-lids to the floor.

EDIT: Also note that on any forum less tolerant than ours, you post would have been removed instantly and seen as an attempt to instigate a flamewar. The subsequent discussion we're having now would have been as off-topic and split or moved. Yet here we are, having a conversation. Dialogue, man *throws peace-sign*

 

[LeStryfe79]

See, the thing about "everyone has the right to express their opinion" is that it also extends to criticism of those opinions. Of course you have the right to say what you want...and other people have the right to say that you're an asshole for it; that's not "censorship," it's just reality. Am I "censoring" someone if I tell them not to shit on my couch, even though they REALLY want to and it doesn't actually "hurt me?" No, I'm just making a very reasonable request that they conduct themselves more like a person and less like a gross baby, is all.

That's the worst straw man I've ever seen.

 

[Night Goat]

or wisdom