4X Pandora to begin beta testing

[MetalCraze]

Religion wasn't even a good mechanic since it had barely any effect on a game apart from adjusting relations by a set number (home religion / foreign religion) with every religion being exactly the same.

It went downhill because all the best "Sid Meier's" games were designed by Brian Reynolds.
Civ3 was fine though but mostly due to SMAC leftovers.

Civ2, Colonization, SMAC and iirc Gettysburg too = Brian Reynolds.

 

[Malakal]

Every religion being the same is standard PC bullshit but dividing diplomacy into religious blocks was a very good concept. Realistic too. Granted there should be religion specific units, civics and buildings too.

 

[Kane]

Religion wasn't even a good mechanic since it had barely any effect on a game apart from adjusting relations by a set number (home religion / foreign religion) with every religion being exactly the same.

It went downhill because all the best "Sid Meier's" games were designed by Brian Reynolds.
Civ3 was fine though but mostly due to SMAC leftovers.

Civ2, Colonization, SMAC and iirc Gettysburg too = Brian Reynolds.

good thing reynolds is on the market again.

 

[MetalCraze]

Every religion being the same is standard PC bullshit but dividing diplomacy into religious blocks was a very good concept. Realistic too. Granted there should be religion specific units, civics and buildings too.

Except that was boring because it was just a mere +/- number. Ideologies worked much better in SMAC and the difference felt much more natural with characters on the opposite side of spectrum almost declaring the war outright.

That's the difference between just adding a mechanic and having a talent to do so well.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Every religion being the same is standard PC bullshit but dividing diplomacy into religious blocks was a very good concept. Realistic too. Granted there should be religion specific units, civics and buildings too.

Except that was boring because it was just a mere +/- number. Ideologies worked much better in SMAC and the difference felt much more natural with characters on the opposite side of spectrum almost declaring the war outright.

That's the difference between just adding a mechanic and having a talent to do so well.

To be honest, a bit of asymmetry might have been even better.

 

[IDtenT]

It went downhill because all the best "Sid Meier's" games were designed by Brian Reynolds.
Civ3 was fine though but mostly due to SMAC leftovers.

Civ2, Colonization, SMAC and iirc Gettysburg too = Brian Reynolds.

I wouldn't go that far. Certainly some games, like those mentioned, are unfairly named - however it goes both ways; the actual Sid Meier games are nothing like Civ or XCOM. It's just branding gone awry. Sim Golf and Pirates are far more Sid Meier.

good thing reynolds is on the market again.

That is good news. Edit: Or not. He's looking at staying in the tablet market.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

So, I'm in the beta.

Could do a small LP of it if anyone is interested.

 

[tuluse]

ITT we learn codexers didn't know how to use religion in Civ4. It was a damn gold mine. Found a religion, put wallstreet there and roll in the dough. There was also a world wonder that doubled it. Which just gave silly amounts of money.

 

[Space Satan]

It is most humilating for Firaxis that Alpha Centauri had better AI and diplomacy than all their Civs after that. AI felt "alive" and actually helpful, encouraging diplomacy. The only thing that ruined AC for me is a horrible balance of ecodamage and neverending stacks of worms. At some point ecodamage could not be reduced to adequate values and worms start spawning every turn.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

It is most humilating for Firaxis that Alpha Centauri had better AI and diplomacy than all their Civs after that. AI felt "alive" and actually helpful, encouraging diplomacy. The only thing that ruined AC for me is a horrible balance of ecodamage and neverending stacks of worms. At some point ecodamage could not be reduced to adequate values and worms start spawning every turn.

That's only true if you feel the OCD need to max out on production buildings in all your big cities.

 

[Malakal]

So, I'm in the beta.

Could do a small LP of it if anyone is interested.

Fell free to do it.

It is most humilating for Firaxis that Alpha Centauri had better AI and diplomacy than all their Civs after that. AI felt "alive" and actually helpful, encouraging diplomacy. The only thing that ruined AC for me is a horrible balance of ecodamage and neverending stacks of worms. At some point ecodamage could not be reduced to adequate values and worms start spawning every turn.

AI in civ4 also had personalities they even added some of that into civ5. Granted it was less extreme in differences as less ideologies were present.

 

[oscar]

I recently started playing Civ5 a few weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised after hearing how much badmouthing it had received around here.

 

[Space Satan]

That's only true if you feel the OCD need to max out on production buildings in all your big cities.

Nopenopenope. It's about automation - you either manage all your bases manually, or, if you leave them to governors they'll start building orbital mining platforms and genejacks, skyrocketing the ecodamage. AC governor system is one of the best in all civ series, extremely flexible and, more importatly, smartm, but that mineral thing cripples it. Plus, you either get to huge mineral output with huge eco0damage, or AI and competitors will overwhelm and cripple you. IMo main flaw is that ecological buildings operated with values instead of percentages, so you got -4 eco damage from building when you already had 200+.

AI in civ4 also had personalities they even added some of that into civ5. Granted it was less extreme in differences as less ideologies were present.

Alpha Centauri had personalities as well. They are listed in faction report and diplomatic screen. The difference is that leaders actually acted according to personalities

 

[Space Satan]

It also has better mechanics.
Social Engineering? SMAC birthed it, Civ4 and 5 copied it. SMAC's is still better.
Combat? SMAC's is better (because it only has to cope with modern combat, not with four eras with different warfare) and has lots of interesting tools for the player. Now if only the AI was smart enough to use them alll...

Yeah, AI had this awful tendency to spam weird armies, like hordes of rovers without armor, armored infantry, with worst possible weapon etc. It's ironic that game with THE most punishable support mechanics in all civ-like games had so much unit spamming.

 

[Malakal]

I recently started playing Civ5 a few weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised after hearing how much badmouthing it had received around here.

Vanilla civ5 is way worse than the current BNW build.

Alpha Centauri had personalities as well. They are listed in faction report and diplomatic screen. The difference is that leaders actually acted according to personalities

So did leaders in civ4. Warmongers warmongered, religious spread their religion, peaceful teched and built wonders. Exactly the same as in AC only you didnt have different ideologies.

 

[Space Satan]

Very true. AI didn't know how to cope with the Unit workshop, which is why it never appeared in any other civ game to date. A pity, I loved creating my own crazy designs. Maybe current AI could do it better, but its a moot point.

IMO workshop was a bad idea. In-game costs were too insignificant to create an inferior unit, for example, with old armor. With numerous armies quantity overwhelmed quality. Special abilities - better made them as purchasable upgrades, because with all huge variety of special abilities only few were somewhat useful. So better stick with preset unit types and make spec.abilities something like CivIV upgrades, just for money.

 

[Gondolin]

Nopenopenope. It's about automation - you either manage all your bases manually, or, if you leave them to governors they'll start building orbital mining platforms and genejacks, skyrocketing the ecodamage.

It's also tied to the difficulty level. I hate playing above Talent because the game simply pulls ecodamage out of its ass. One turn I have a clean, green empire that uses only Tree Farms, the next I get xenofungus and worms all over the place. Fuck that.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/banal-modern-copy-of-smac-pandora.86991/

A brief look into it, more to come later.

 

[SephiRok]

Website with more info is at http://pandora.proxy-studios.com. There's some background lore, but faction short stories and a prettier format are coming soon.

 

[Turisas]

So this is apparently out now, anyone got it?

 

[Blaine]

No, but I suppose I should, since I have hundreds of hours in SMAC and apparently no one else has tried it.

Also, initial impressions from some of the more obscure enthusiast strategy/wargame forums/websites seem positive enough to indicate that I probably won't just be flushing my money down the shitter.

 

[oscar]

I'm trying to score a press copy. Just got a response today so a TC review may be in the works.

 

[sser]

Those guys have a completed game spiritually attached to a supremely popular Sid Meier title and they're not hitting up the digital distribution sites...? If you can, ask them about that.

 

[oscar]

Matrix work in mysterious ways.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

I made a short LP of the beta in the the playground.

I wouldn't approach the game with a stick. It's Civ 5 with less content but with aliens and that's the only thing it's got in common with SMAC.