Company News Paradox has acquired White Wolf and the World of Darkness IP, including Vampire: The Masquerade

[Delterius]

Giving the option to smack the shit out of Werewolf with a pissed off sledgehammer wielding Brujah or tear it to bits with Gangerl Warform is not remaining faithful to dev vision for that encounter as far as I'm concerned.

I think you still can't do that in the wesp patch. People are killing it using the observatory door.

As I said earlier, it may be the official patches did add some content, which is why you think that the observatory isn't an option. Raapys in shoutbox swore that on release LaCroix tower was just the reception and then the final boss.

 

[Excidium II]

Who cares about dev vision when it consists of forcing a really stupid gimmick.

Thinking of it, all the bossfights in bloodlines are p. awful.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

I think you still can't do that in the wesp patch. People are killing it using the observatory door.

You can, it was added in his patch some years ago (sledgehammer works particularly well). Killing it using an observatory door was always there as an option but no matter what you always did zero damage to him in a straight-up fight.

As I said earlier, it may be the official patches did add some content, which is why you think that the observatory isn't an option. Raapys in shoutbox swore that on release LaCroix tower was just the reception and then the final boss.

I didn't phrase myself clearly enough,I don't think observatory door isn't/wasn't an option before (it was), Wesp didn't add that. I think beating him with conventional weapons shouldn't be an option.

Regarding what Raapys said, I honestly can't remember. It's possible that official patches added some content along with fixes and La Croix tower was barebones initially.

Who cares about dev vision when it consists of forcing a really stupid gimmick.

It consists of putting an obstacle before you that you can't deal like you would with an ordinary enemy. If you can, what's the whole point of putting you in that scenario in the first place? Werewolf can't inspire terror if you can just smack it down like everyone else.

Besides you don't have to rely on a gimmick, you can just avoid him/hide until the tram arrives.

 

[Excidium II]

It consists of putting an obstacle before you that you can't deal like you would with an ordinary enemy. If you can, what's the whole point of putting you in that scenario in the first place? Werewolf can't inspire terror if you can just smack it down like everyone else.

Because if a character is equipped to deal with it I don't see why he can't, it should just be exceptionally tough but potentially doable. Nines gets jumped on and still ends up winning the fight for example, and you can be way stronger than him.

 

[Ninjerk]

Well regardless of storyline combat sucked in both 1 and 3.

Spoiler

Maybe I'm not qualified to talk, as I clearly haven't read all 200 books or whatever. I will warn you, neither have the developers, whoever they end up being.

Except all I've talked about is the core rulebook. Being sarcastic works better when you're not also simultaneously being a dumbfuck. I agree the developers probably will not be terribly well versed in the setting, if indeed a cRPG is ever even made.

 

[Jaesun]

I still like the NEW World of Darkness setting. It has some potential. But I get the nostalgia of the OLD World of Darkness setting (of which I still very much like).

 

[Dreaad]

Except all I've talked about is the core rulebook. Being sarcastic works better when you're not also simultaneously being a dumbfuck. I agree the developers probably will not be terribly well versed in the setting, if indeed a cRPG is ever even made.

I was trying to be light hearted about it. No I have not read every single edition of the core rulebook, even for the Vampire stuff. Does that mean I have no right to talk about it? Or to say that what I played, in terms of combat, was shit. Maybe it was better back in the day. Do you think if a new game is made they will use the old rules and setting or the modern version?

 

[Ninjerk]

I remember when I first heard of nWoD it sounded extremely disappointing. Shame they didn't figure out a way to monetize oWoD without throwing nukes around.

 

[Jaesun]

the DM decides what is and isnt canon.

And THAT was the biggest complaint about the OWod Setting, and then they set to rectify this in the NWoD setting. Though I feel they went *too* much hands off, to allow the DM to set the story. The incredibly rich background (and very detailed) setting of OWoD I personally felt still allowed a creative GM to establish a setting and to set a scenario for the players. But I still like the fresh slate of the NWoD Setting, I see a lot of potential. But I think the nostalgia of the OWoD setting still holds many people (including myself).

 

[Ninjerk]

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this. Core rulebook. It's one book and it can be easily found, but that doesn't even matter. It's fine to participate in a discussion without having read ANY books ever published by White Wolf, but saying up is down and the sky is ground doesn't add anything to the conversation. I care far less about the combat than I do the gross treatment of the setting. VtM is about so much more than mooks, and I suspect it's the setting that's going to get a lot more attention than any of the rulebooks in the newer unified setting (if what you're saying is true of The Req.).

 

[Rahdulan]

New World of Darkness doesn't really have a setting. Everything is vague as fuck and the DM decides what is and isnt canon. It's weird, they redesigned the PnP to be more compatible and then told the Storyteller "but u know, u decide if your mage game has vampires or not fam."

Give the nWoD second edition books a read if you haven't already. They endeavored to give more of a proper setting to game lines, even if it's not classical oWoD canonicity and more along the lines of just having some identity of their own. God Machine part in particular, for example.

 

[Jaesun]

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this. Core rulebook. It's one book and it can be easily found, but that doesn't even matter. It's fine to participate in a discussion without having read ANY books ever published by White Wolf, but saying up is down and the sky is ground doesn't add anything to the conversation. I care far less about the combat than I do the gross treatment of the setting. VtM is about so much more than mooks, and I suspect it's the setting that's going to get a lot more attention than any of the rulebooks in the newer unified setting (if what you're saying is true of The Req.).

Then what specifically IS Vampire: The Masquerade about then?

 

[Caconym]

I guess VtR doesn't include diablerie[sic?]?

Of course it does.

Seconding the notion of reading VtR 2nd edition core book if you have doubts / been underwhelmed by its first edition. I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Strix and the majority of the illustrations are massively hit or miss, but other than that its very probably the best vampire pnp rpg i've seen.
Same goes for Forsaken 2e and wolves.

My 2 cents. I like games with a toolbox approach very much.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

I did. Yes it is an oversimplification. However I can say from personal experience, combat sucks balls. Maybe it was the DM of course but I would rather deal with Dark Heresy combat than the shit that is Vampire the Requiem (which is apparently a quicker and more simplified version of the earlier stuff?). From what I've experienced and read I would say 80%+ of the game is based on social interactions, the combat when it happens is a pretty retarded affair, partly because most characters aren't made for combat. (I did find the social 'combat' in Requiem for Rome fairly entertaining though).

I mean even the overall premise of WoD, survival for the sake of survival and what that costs you as a human.... is fairly difficult to translate into non interactive role playing. Instead you end up with: Cain waking up and driving a taxi, blowing up a prince who rules a city and somehow overpowering everyone you meet on you first night of existence as a creature of darkness

Probably newer versions suck, no surprise there.

As for canon or whatever, what is there to even care about? Like the blood curse? lol And I read basically every book I think, except whatever the new shit is.

I think what is interesting is the basics of each of the clans, and the sabbat vs masquerade conflict and the antedilluvians and coming of gehenna. That all got touched on pretty well in Bloodlines, though if they had part of it in ancient time it would have been better.

If you played in a game where gehenna is over and modern setting then it would probably be pretty fucking boring.

 

[Lightsinthesky]

I hate when people say 'WoD' but then it's obvious they are talking just about Vampire.

Well why wouldn't they? In the end Vampire and all of it's spinoff splats accounted for more than half the gameline by the end of the oWoD.

 

[mondblut]

Giving the option to smack the shit out of Werewolf with a pissed off sledgehammer wielding Brujah or tear it to bits with Gangerl Warform is not remaining faithful to dev vision for that encounter as far as I'm concerned.

If a "dev vision" is "you can't win it, lol, you must solve a puzzle", fuck these losers. There was a ton of annoying and retarded shit in Bloodlines (basically everything not featuring the dialogue window really), but this one takes the cake. Well, the Romero cemetery quest could compete, but the werewolf still wins on points.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Probably newer versions suck, no surprise there.

As for canon or whatever, what is there to even care about? Like the blood curse? lol And I read basically every book I think, except whatever the new shit is.

I think what is interesting is the basics of each of the clans, and the sabbat vs masquerade conflict and the antedilluvians and coming of gehenna. That all got touched on pretty well in Bloodlines, though if they had part of it in ancient time it would have been better.

If you played in a game where gehenna is over and modern setting then it would probably be pretty fucking boring.

> And I read basically every book I think, except whatever the new shit is.
> If you played in a game where gehenna is over and modern setting then it would probably be pretty fucking boring.

Mate, if you've read Time of Judgement - Gehenna book, then you know that four scenarios from it doesn't really allow for continuing the game with Kindred&Cainites.

But then again, oWoD was always flexible, a Storyteller very well could have created such Gehenna scenario where Antediluvians were dispatched in ways similar to Ravnos. Or with God's intervention, or with Cain's, or both, or neither. I remember I had plans of developing post-Gehenna, post-Apocalypse, Sixth Age scenario, where ancients were destroyed by various means (from Umbra by collective forces of Mages and Garou, with Technocracy weapons, combined effort of Kuei-jin bodhisattvas, etc). But the fight was so awful, that the world arrived to Sixth Age in total shambles, most clans were almost wiped out by the fighting and preceding events, some similar to Week of Nightmares, and some not. In the East - the Demon Emperor enters. In the West - world is a chaotic place, many merged realities, Umbra, Dark Umbra, Deep Umbra pockets, kinda like a cross between Stalker, AoD and Numenera.

Alas, my group had disbanded, and I've gone to complete my thesis, and all those ideas, outlines and characters are just a bunch of text files in my old PC. Sigh, I miss oWoD.

 

[Jasede]

The Vault Dweller cocksucking in this thread is intolerable. I respect the guy a ton but having to mention how amazing he is and how he'd make a much better Vampire game than Obsidian and inExile is absolutely retarded, especially coming from that one guy who criticized inExile's graphics in the same post. AoD is fucking hideous no matter how you look at it, no matter what strengths it might otherwise have. You don't need to suck VD's dick every post, he won't give you a job for that.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

The Vault Dweller cocksucking in this thread is intolerable. I respect the guy a ton but having to mention how amazing he is and how he'd make a much better Vampire game than Obsidian and inExile is absolutely retarded, especially coming from that one guy who criticized inExile's graphics in the same post. AoD is fucking hideous no matter how you look at it, no matter what strengths it might otherwise have. You don't need to suck VD's dick every post, he won't give you a job for that.

Don't be jealous, sweetie, I'm sure that VD would allow you to suck his cock if you'd ask nicely.

Anyway, I'd written not about Bloodlines sequel by VD, I specifically stated that for Bloodlines sequel I'd want CDPR. Or Eidos Montreal HR dev tem, and explained why. So it was reading comprehension fail on your part. I was talking about another type of RPG, similar to AoD. oWoD was always about social interactions, moral dilemmas, choices&consequences and, of course, storytelling above all else. VD could have made a decent game from all this, but only if he likes the setting and is familiar with it.

 

[Volrath]

OK, I'll bite. Who's your candidate?

I mentioned my candidate on the very first page of this thread.

 

[Delterius]

Just imagine what wesp would be able or have to accomplish if only Bethesda was in charge.

 

[Roguey]

Thinking of it, all the bossfights in bloodlines are p. awful.

One of my favorite aspects is how the dominate and dementation lines have a power that can insta-kill anything that isn't supernatural, but it doesn't work against Chastity and Bach because they're flagged as bosses. You're going to experience those fights as they intended.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The Vault Dweller cocksucking in this thread is intolerable. I respect the guy a ton but having to mention how amazing he is and how he'd make a much better Vampire game than Obsidian and inExile is absolutely retarded, especially coming from that one guy who criticized inExile's graphics in the same post. AoD is fucking hideous no matter how you look at it, no matter what strengths it might otherwise have.

Not sure if you noticed, but VD kind of just released the game that absolutely shits on anything Obsidian or InExile have ever produced. And I'm saying that as a devout Obsidianite.

And yes, AoD does look atrocious, but that's about what you can expect from a self-funded game made by 6 people working in a tent. Vampire game would get publisher funding from Paradox, so that's a different story entirely.

 

[Jasede]

That's... hugely debatable, I mean, the opinion on AoD. It's great if you like choices and consequences and reactivity. That's... one approach to RPGs. I don't think it's the only one, nor does it excelling in those disciplines put it above RPGs that might excel in other disciplines.

 

[ArchAngel]

Not sure if you noticed, but VD kind of just released the game that absolutely shits on anything Obsidian or InExile have ever produced. And I'm saying that as a devout Obsidianite.

And yes, AoD does look atrocious, but that's about what you can expect from a self-funded game made by 6 people working in a tent. Vampire game would get publisher funding from Paradox, so that's a different story entirely.

LoL. Not even close. AoD is a game for niche of the niche. I bet even on Codex it will not be a game of the year.