Wasteland People Bitching About Jamming

[Spockrock]

Just to play devils advocate here.. The Junkie didn't make that gun.. Knowing the Gun will Jam 3% or 6% is meta knowledge your characters don't know.. The concept is.. the more complex the weapon.. the better likely there is for something to jam or not work.. It's assumed if a Junkie has some assault rifle.. it's about as well made as any other assault rifle that is still functioning..

I wasn't talking about where they were manufactured. the junkie probably took it from a dead ranger's hands. my point is he wouldn't be maintaining it properly, so his rifle should jam more often

 

[gunman]

There is nothing good to old C++, just people who don't know anything else, and so proclaim their thing best.

newfag

 

[Shadowfang]

Jamming in wasteland is really weak.
E5 Brigade and 7.62 made this much better. Each gun hand a different tolerance to dirt, and the dirtier they where the more likely they had to jam. Your brand new gun would get dirty with use and that sweet rifle you just picked up from the floor might get you killed if you don't clean it first.
Want that m16 jam free? Then keep it clean and make sure you bring a cleaning kit everywhere you go.

 

[Immortal]

Jamming in wasteland is really weak.
E5 Brigade and 7.62 made this much better. Each gun hand a different tolerance to dirt, and the dirtier they where the more likely they had to jam. Your brand new gun would get dirty with use and that sweet rifle you just picked up from the floor might get you killed if you don't clean it first.
Want that m16 jam free? Then keep it clean and make sure you bring a cleaning kit everywhere you go.

Can you talk more about how the system worked? Mechanically instead of in general. I never heard of or played those games.

 

[Baron Dupek]

But that's how it worked. You buy new gun, it have Dirt 0% and Worn 0% by default. Shooting increase Dirt, after some point Worn start increasing but slower. And after that it's start jamming, overheat faster etc.
You got toolpack to clean it, if you want to repair - find specialist, in gun shops or bars.

 

[Raghar]

Jamming in wasteland is really weak.
E5 Brigade and 7.62 made this much better. Each gun hand a different tolerance to dirt, and the dirtier they where the more likely they had to jam. Your brand new gun would get dirty with use and that sweet rifle you just picked up from the floor might get you killed if you don't clean it first.
Want that m16 jam free? Then keep it clean and make sure you bring a cleaning kit everywhere you go.

Can you talk more about how the system worked? Mechanically instead of in general. I never heard of or played those games.

Well I remember on one mission where I was forced to clean up the gun twice in stealth mode because it jammed.

Scary stuff. Grenades fell left and right around me, and people ran in my direction before they fainted 5 m away from me looking on other direction. Considering enemies also shared vision, one nearly dead person would be enough to uncover me.

It was the mission with these two packs of gang members. I didn't clean the mission because, I didn't took one more big pack of ammunition for smg. These were 100 bullets each, or was it 200. 2 might be better.

 

[Shadowfang]

Thanks MotherMachinae i had totally forgotten about the worn %.
Immortal, it has been some time since i played both games and i never looked under the hood to see how it worked.
The fact that we are looking under w2 hood about this is telling. Its because the engine is smoking.

In those two games you were punished if you shot around with a dirty and/or damaged weapon.
In wasteland you are punished at random. The fact you get less likely to get a jam because of mag mod,
doesn't make it much better.

Raghar do you remember what weapon it was?
I remember being scared of my m4 jamming so i always kept it in prime working condition.
I think the H&K guns jammed less, but i can't be sure of that.

 

[Spockrock]

I have 7.62 in Steam but am yet to play it, maybe I finally should

 

[Shadowfang]

I have 7.62 in Steam but am yet to play it, maybe I finally should

Thread with low expectations.
While the combat system is great the game is very flawed and bugged.

 

[RandomAccount]

Some games seem overly addicted to RNG.

It's been one of the hottest topics for the entirety of Path of Exile's existence, for example. It's not that there's any specific chance or that someone is experiencing too much of a singular mechanic, it's that there's simply too much RNG, and that the RNG is overly negative. The phrase for Path of Exile is "RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG".

It's the difference between playing a chance effected game (RISK, the board game) and a chance heavy game (Tournament No-Limit Texas Hold'em Poker). A very experienced RISK player, when faced with a table of incompetant newbs, will never lose, even though they might suffer awful luck in the game. A very experienced N-LTH'em player could face a table of incompetant newbs and fall foul to game-ending luck.

In a basic D&D game you have Chance-to-Hit RNG then, if successful, an RNG total of the damage. So you have two RNGs, but only one is purely negative, the other will always provide *something* positive.

By adding another RNG before the Chance-to-Hit, a Chance-to-Fire, you're not only adding a third RNG but you're also adding a second purely negative RNG.

So you have:

1. Catastrophic fail or small hit
2. Catastrophic fail or small hit
3. Small hit varied by degrees of smallness

It doesn't actually matter what that new RNG is that you've added, it doesn't matter what name you give it - you could have a 'butter fingers' RNG instead where the character drops their gun. But in this game the new RNG is called 'Jam'. Sorry player, we're making your experience more 'potentially negative' because we believe that's what makes RNG fun and what makes games 'better'...

If you're looking for practical solutions rather than just pissant negativity (oh the irony) then you have to approach the topic from a whole new perspective that you are likely incapable of - because you'd already be obviously aware of it if you were capable of understanding it.

Another way to 'solve' the 'fun' of RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG is to, for example:

1. Catastrophic Fail (percentage improvable by 'various' methods) or small hit
2. Hit for small damage or (percentage chance improvable by 'various' methods) chance of Arterial Strike
3. Arterial Strike (if attained) varied by degrees of smallness

However, you could also just ditch as much RNG as possible and have a basic:

1. Catastrophic fail or small, unvariable hit

RPGs offer so many other opportunities for RNG fun, there's actually little reason to have so much of it involved in the combat beyond the basics. With Path of Exile, for example, ALL of their RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG issues are entirely non-combat related. I don't believe anyone's ever shown much thread'age about actual combat RNG beyond the absolute basic nerf/buff level of melee or ranged 'Chance-to-Hit'.

Yes, you want lots of RNG because micromanagers love all the what-effects-what-decision in RPGs, but you can effect combat RNG with so many non-wholly-negative things I could list examples for 100s more lines of post...


TL:DR - it's not the word or effect 'jam' that people are criticising, it's the unnecessary extra layer of purely negative RNG which is, quite obviously, producing too great a negative emotion for what it is worth in the game's whole. ie: There's so much good stuff, why is it making me focus on this really rather tiny 'irritating' part so much. Find something more 'attractive' to 'balance' a battle with...

 

[Haba]

If only we could confine all you autists into this one thread...

 

[Raghar]

Raghar do you remember what weapon it was?
I remember being scared of my m4 jamming so i always kept it in prime working condition.
I think the H&K guns jammed less, but i can't be sure of that.

THAT silenced smg. I just shot about 200 bullets, and was lying in the dirt a lot. I played challenge with leaving marksmanship at original level and just improving it by practice, thus I missed a lot.

Enemies never jammed with mozin, and I would need to ignore cleaning kit completely to even have possibility of jam with mozin.
I think bullets also changed dirt status of weapons, low quality ammo had some difference.

 

[Spockrock]

Mosin-Nagant is a bolt-action, it shouldn't jam, because you can manually load each round if you want to. even if you don't, its internal magazine doesn't get broken often, I'd imagine, so there shouldn't be any feeding problems unless it's really worn

 

[Volourn]

"TL:DR - it's not the word or effect 'jam' that people are criticising, it's the unnecessary extra layer of purely negative RNG which is, quite obviously, producing too great a negative emotion for what it is worth in the game's whole. ie: There's so much good stuff, why is it making me focus on this really rather tiny 'irritating' part so much. Find something more 'attractive' to 'balance' a battle with..."

Fuck off. There are shitt new age dumbed down easy less fun games for losers like you. You toolbags already bullied exile into dumbing down the game in first patch. Jasm are extremely rare espciially afetr the patch.


LEAVE WASTELAND TWO ALONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Baron Dupek]

I have 7.62 in Steam but am yet to play it, maybe I finally should

Just remember to check game Properties for Blue Sun Mod 2.1 activate, it's integrated with Steam version, just hidden. and get some music cause there is none in the game except bars.

 

[RandomAccount]

Fuck off. There are shitt new age dumbed down easy less fun games for losers like you. You toolbags already bullied exile into dumbing down the game in first patch. Jasm are extremely rare espciially afetr the patch.


LEAVE WASTELAND TWO ALONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fuck are you dribbling about?

You don't make any game, old or new, less dumbed down by implementing a dumb mechanic. A mechanic as blatant and in your face as 'Jam' is the very essence of dumbed down, we already had 'Jam', it's called 'Chance-to-Hit'. Having two 'Chance-to-Hit' mechanics worded differently is utterly dumb. Oooo loooook, this game is uber hardcore, look at all the different 'mechanics' - That both do exactly the same thing...

And Path of Exile has been going downhill ever since they hit Open Beta years ago and it was from expanding the RNG instead of reducing it. They now have to appeal to Malaysian gamblers rather than their self-proclaimed 'hardcore' audience to keep financing ever more RPG=National Lottery mechanics.

 

[set]

With weaponsmithing 1 you can literally get a mod which reduces jamming chance by 4%. By the 20 minute mark all your rangers can have this mod on their weapon, realistically. Unless it's a shotgun, anyway. It's pretty much mandatory on SMGs.

Jamming, as I see it, is just a feature somebody wanted so the combat could feel more gritty and "realistic".

It's wrong. I mean, WL2 certainly isn't JA2. It could have been, but without the ability to go prone, wear camouflage, stealth, etc. etc. -- it's a simplified tactics game. It's strangely less tactical than DOS, if a bit more tactical than FO and FO2.

 

[RandomAccount]

With weaponsmithing 1 you can literally get a mod which reduces jamming chance by 4%. By the 20 minute mark all your rangers can have this mod on their weapon, realistically. Unless it's a shotgun, anyway. It's pretty much mandatory on SMGs.

Yes, I've heard that there's one single 'all solved' solution. How... engrossing...

 

[Volourn]

"You don't make any game, old or new, less dumbed down by implementing a dumb mechanic. A mechanic as blatant and in your face as 'Jam' is the very essence of dumbed down, we already had 'Jam', it's called 'Chance-to-Hit'. Having two 'Chance-to-Hit' mechanics worded differently is utterly dumb. Oooo loooook, this game is uber hardcore, look at all the different 'mechanics' - That both do exactly the same thing..."

No. You are a filthy casual. Go play mario.

 

[set]

With weaponsmithing 1 you can literally get a mod which reduces jamming chance by 4%. By the 20 minute mark all your rangers can have this mod on their weapon, realistically. Unless it's a shotgun, anyway. It's pretty much mandatory on SMGs.

Yes, I've heard that there's one single 'all solved' solution. How... engrossing...

I agree the weapon modding and stuff isn't comprehensively established as it should be. It's pretty barebones. But it's such a minor problem compared to WL2's other major issues.

 

[Immortal]

But that's how it worked. You buy new gun, it have Dirt 0% and Worn 0% by default. Shooting increase Dirt, after some point Worn start increasing but slower. And after that it's start jamming, overheat faster etc.
You got toolpack to clean it, if you want to repair - find specialist, in gun shops or bars.

And this would make WL2 Guns better? Without touching energy or mellee weapons?

 

[RandomAccount]

No. You are a filthy casual. Go play mario.

Mario is fucking awesome!

 

[Immortal]

With weaponsmithing 1 you can literally get a mod which reduces jamming chance by 4%. By the 20 minute mark all your rangers can have this mod on their weapon, realistically. Unless it's a shotgun, anyway. It's pretty much mandatory on SMGs.

Yes, I've heard that there's one single 'all solved' solution. How... engrossing...

I agree the weapon modding and stuff isn't comprehensively established as it should be. It's pretty barebones. But it's such a minor problem compared to WL2's other major issues.

Like what?
So much passive aggression in this forum..

 

[Volourn]

Sure, but ti's still a casual game. Then again, Mario hasn't been awesome since I was a little kid like almost 30 years ago. LMAO

 

[RandomAccount]

Likewise!