Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Prime Junta]

Sure, but we never get to be a part of that. We always seem to deal with the most boring and unimaginative things in this setting. I don't think the factions are very well done in DF either and don't really clash too often/at all.

This is true. It's like Josh crafted a pretty neat setting and then the narrative designers didn't want to have anything to do with its most interesting features, instead latching onto the soul thing and never letting go.

Imagine if the story of P1 had had nothing to do with the Engwithans or souls at all, but instead have been about the Broken Stone War or something similar. Human-scale, a great introduction to the setting, a conflict where it makes sense that a hero's intervention would make a difference, and far enough removed from epic-level derp that you wouldn't need a bleeping skyscraper sized animated statue to make the sequel epic-er.

 

[Quillon]

Imagine if the story of P1 had had nothing to do with the Engwithans or souls at all, but instead have been about the Broken Stone War or something similar. Human-scale, a great introduction to the setting, a conflict where it makes sense that a hero's intervention would make a difference, and far enough removed from epic-level derp that you wouldn't need a bleeping skyscraper sized animated statue to make the sequel epic-er.

"Imagine it was low fantasy asoiaf-esque"

Yeah I agree :D

 

[Butter]

Ideally I think the story ought to blend the high and low elements. This is where Deadfire somewhat succeeded narratively; it was about Eothas, yes, but also about the factions competing for the Deadfire's resources. PoE1's main quest is only about the high elements, with side quests carrying all of the low elements.

 

[TemplarGR]

I recently completed a full 100% playthrough of PoE + Expansions for the first time. What a GREAT spiritual successor to the Infinity Engine games...

I had began a playthrough back in 2015 but life got in the way and seeing as the game was getting seriously overhauled patch after patch i decided to just let it rest and restart from scratch at some point when it is finished.

In the meantime i read about all the negativity retards like to spread about the game, and as i was finishing the game, i was like "what the fuck?".

This game is one of the few highly rated games on metacritic that actually deserved the high score. I can't believe people who supposedly like crpgs trashtalk this game. It is one of the best kickstarter era games we got. Seriously the hate this game gets is irrational. Anyone who claims this game was bad is a retard on my book.

 

[Prime Junta]

"Imagine it was low fantasy asoiaf-esque"

Wouldn't have to be low fantasy. Could still have your ciphers and wizards and druids and everything. Could even have the Leaden Key and Hand Occult and other secret societies doing their thing. That could have eventually flowed into something that was about the big secrets of the setting.

But making "the gods are artificial" the big reveal of the first game was a huge mistake.

 

[Quillon]

But making "the gods are artificial" the big reveal of the first game was a huge mistake.

Mistake or not it doesn't matter much. Content matters, f.i. Caed Nua questline had nothing to do with gods and it was great content, it didn't clash with anything so a potential PoE game that has little to do with gods could work and can be great. They just need to focus it more; we shouldn't have to deal with everything the setting could possibly throw at us in just one game; Deadfire could have been only about colonization and pirates and fate of these factions in this part of the world but they made us heavily deal with the "Gods Ensemble" also.

 

[2house2fly]

When you don't know whether the game will sell it doesn't really make sense to hold cool stuff back for sequels that might never happen. Imagine if Torment Numenera or Bard's Tale 4 ended on a cliffhanger!

 

[Quillon]

to hold cool stuff back for sequels

It isn't about holding stuff back, its about deciding on what would make the better game: "everything - shallower" or "somethings - deeper" One moment you're dealing with some land dispute the next you're drinking tea with gods, its harder to present a cohesive experience when you try to do everything - together, imo.

And don't worry they don't think about sequels at all, its why we see all these vastly different world-states in endings.

 

[2house2fly]

I don't know, I think a cool part of fantasy stories is the sense of escalating scale and stakes. It's one of the reasons I think Deadfire's story suffers- you start the story as the famous Watcher of Caed Nua, and you end it as... the famous Watcher of Caed Nua

 

[Lacrymas]

The standard story, whether it's fantasy or not, has to escalate and culminate. That doesn't mean you go from killing rats in a basement to extradimensional travel and duels with gods in the span of 20 hours. There are other types of escalation.

 

[Delterius]

it ends with the player literary starting a war!

someone is lacking in honor

 

[FreeKaner]

FreeKaner, pomenitul

Don't you fake news me! Tyrrany counts among the most blatant of sequelbaits - it ends with the player literary starting a war! Pillars was designed to be open for future stories, sure, but it closed the books on Dyrwood and the hollowborn crisis, much more than Tyranny can say.

You should have picked Kyros.

 

[soulburner]

An interesting discovery: as I am forced to use my toaster laptop, Thinkpad X230, with integrated Intel HD 4000 graphics :D I couldn't really play the more recent Unity games. PoE1 ran at about 15 frames per second, freezing whenever combat took place with spell effects and stuff, Pathfinder Kingmaker was struggling as well. However, since I started using Linux exclusively recently, I decided to give the native Linux ports a chance.

Lo and behold, PoE1 runs at a pretty much stable framerate of 30. I limited the fps in the settings to 30 too, to give the hardware a little breath just in case the game attempts to run faster than that. So far, I see no slowdowns, only when first combat begins and the special effects take a second or two to load, but it's a pretty smooth experience after. Also tested Pathfinder and it runs very similarly, maybe a few frames less, but the loading times kill all the fun (even when on SSD). The loading times in PoE1, however, are very fast and take no more than 4 seconds (SSD). Maybe they will slow down the further in the game I get (I am still early in) and the more heavy the savegame files become, but I am just in a state of a minor shock.

Of course, the game causes my CPU to warm up to over 80 degrees Celsius, so I'm not sure how long this laptop will last but I am experiencing immense joy right now


tl,dr: Pillars of Eternity 1 and Pathfinder Kingmaker run significantly better on Linux when compared to Windows. I don't know why, maybe the Intel video driver for that system is more mature and optimized, maybe the faster loading is because Linux is considered better when managing heavy I/O than Windows... anyhow, it's something I wanted to share. Did not test Deadfire yet, because I'm waiting for a GOTY sale

So... Obsidian being acquired by Microsoft will probably put an end to all the Linux fun in future releases

 

[Reina]

I recently completed a full 100% playthrough of PoE + Expansions for the first time. What a GREAT spiritual successor to the Infinity Engine games...

What a coincidence, so did I. But my impressions are completely different.

First of all, PoE is full of ideas that seem good, even excellent in theory, but fall flat in an actual game.

I mean, plot about gods being fake? Awesome! Animancy, watchers, ciphers, the entire soul-magic-thingy? Cool ideas! Kinda early modern setting, with colonialism and widespread use of fireams? Nice!

But then, the gods thing drops on player out of nowhere, without any proper foreshadowing. Like, should we care the gods are fake? Does it change anything? I mean, outside of the Eothas stuff, it didn't play any role in the story before Twin Elms, so... uh... okay?

Animancy is decently developed in second chapter, but right when it seems that the devs cooked something cool out of this diea, it gets thrown out of the window. We are introudced to cipher-spies, but never actually see this theme exploited. For fucks sake, mind reading-controlling-fucking agents, that's such an nice idea, and you do nothing with it?! Not even in a sequel?

And the combat system/mechanics are so... bland. And shallow. What's the point of all those useless spells, like grimoire imprints? Padding out later levels? Too much is dependent on the charlevel, it's silly that one level is an equivalent of most powerful item bonuses. And while I am not completely opposed to Sawyeran "might is the most important attribute to mages!", it makes all builds samey and stale.

There are some good parts - White March pt. 1 a is god-tier expansion, with excellent writing, superb encounters and good sense of scale, which unfortunately gets thrown out of the window (gods again...) in part 2. Shame it screws up the overall game balance, even with level scaling.

But honestly, I think the greatest thing that came out of PoE, the only thing that will have lasting impact on RPGs of the future will be... quality of life mechanics. Fast mode, stash mechanics (when it fits), carefully crafted desrptions and hints... Now that I play P:K without those, I learned to appreciate them even more. Still, not enough to make PoE a classic it wants to be. It's a good game, but only that. Wasted potential.

 

[TemplarGR]

What a coincidence, so did I. But my impressions are completely different.

First of all, PoE is full of ideas that seem good, even excellent in theory, but fall flat in an actual game.

I mean, plot about gods being fake? Awesome! Animancy, watchers, ciphers, the entire soul-magic-thingy? Cool ideas! Kinda early modern setting, with colonialism and widespread use of fireams? Nice!

But then, the gods thing drops on player out of nowhere, without any proper foreshadowing. Like, should we care the gods are fake? Does it change anything? I mean, outside of the Eothas stuff, it didn't play any role in the story before Twin Elms, so... uh... okay?

Animancy is decently developed in second chapter, but right when it seems that the devs cooked something cool out of this diea, it gets thrown out of the window. We are introudced to cipher-spies, but never actually see this theme exploited. For fucks sake, mind reading-controlling-fucking agents, that's such an nice idea, and you do nothing with it?! Not even in a sequel?

And the combat system/mechanics are so... bland. And shallow. What's the point of all those useless spells, like grimoire imprints? Padding out later levels? Too much is dependent on the charlevel, it's silly that one level is an equivalent of most powerful item bonuses. And while I am not completely opposed to Sawyeran "might is the most important attribute to mages!", it makes all builds samey and stale.

There are some good parts - White March pt. 1 a is god-tier expansion, with excellent writing, superb encounters and good sense of scale, which unfortunately gets thrown out of the window (gods again...) in part 2. Shame it screws up the overall game balance, even with level scaling.

But honestly, I think the greatest thing that came out of PoE, the only thing that will have lasting impact on RPGs of the future will be... quality of life mechanics. Fast mode, stash mechanics (when it fits), carefully crafted desrptions and hints... Now that I play P:K without those, I learned to appreciate them even more. Still, not enough to make PoE a classic it wants to be. It's a good game, but only that. Wasted potential.

Your story complaints are a bit silly. Yes, they didn't use some of their concepts in a better way, so what? This does not mean their writting was bad, it just means it wasn't better. Not being better is not a crime, being bad is a crime. There is a difference.

As for combat mechanics, they obviously attempted to make a DnD replacement. They didn't intend for their combat system to be a one-off thingy just for PoE. That explains all the less useful spells and stuff.

I agree generally that PoE could be better. Though you need to be reminded that it was an indy crowdfunded game. It was not a AAA game...

It is not a "classic", but it is definitely a very good CRPG, and it was criticised too harshly by supposed "fans of crpgs".

 

[Reina]

Your story complaints are a bit silly. Yes, they didn't use some of their concepts in a better way, so what? This does not mean their writting was bad, it just means it wasn't better. Not being better is not a crime, being bad is a crime. There is a difference.

But it is bad, that's the problem. The entire story relies on the plot twist that doesn't work because it isn't properly foreshadowed. Who are the gods before the third chapter? Unless someone goes super-duper into the lore, all we get learn about them is A) Eothas Saint's War stuff B) Durance's musings about Magran. All other gods are only introduced/mentioned in a sidequest or two. They seem to have no direct connection with the player's journey.

Hell, I remember my first playthrough, I didn't even notice the fake gods thingy was supposed to be a twist rather than a part of worldbuilding.

Another part I forgot to mention, but found quite jarring (especially now, when there's P:K to compare) are awful, awful dialogues. We shit on F4 dialogue system, but in PoE it basically gives us:

1. Lore dump
2. Larger lore dump
3. Another lore dump
4. Accept quest
5. Leave

In some places, lack of any meaningful choice is quite astounding. Why do I have to tell Aloth that I'm a watcher immediately upon learning it (that's literally the only, single option in that dialogue)? You might be the most deceptive person in the world, because writers can't write your character suddenly reveals crucial information to a guy she met literally yesterday. Bravo!

And don't get me started on the "dispositions" AKA some numbers on your character card. Suddenly, I feel more appreciation to a classic DnD alignment system, despite its flaws.

As for combat mechanics, they obviously attempted to make a DnD replacement. They didn't intend for their combat system to be a one-off thingy just for PoE. That explains all the less useful spells and stuff.

That's fine and dandy, but maybe you shouldn't try to imitate DnD when you lack imagination to do a few high-level spells. I mean, high-level wizard spells are essentialy "A greater [insert lower lvl spell]", while priest are essentially useless, or at best, extremely situational. I mean, how many resurrection spells do priests needs, four? By the time player gets them, his companions shouldn't be dropping at all.

If you brand your product as the second coming of Baldur's Gate, you should be prepared for "fans of crpgs" to shit on you if you don't deliver, period.

Ah, and I actually regard PoE as a superior game to its sequel. The first one knew what it was, and despite all it's shortcomings.

 

[Lacrymas]

It doesn't work not because it wasn't foreshadowed (it kinda was, you talk to Hiravias about the gods potentially not being "real" before ever stepping foot in Sun in Shadow), but because it doesn't change anything, neither the status quo nor our perception of the world/events/story. It's impotent and there just to have a twist.

 

[Quillon]

 

[Lacrymas]

Just completed Zahua's quest and I must say it's the second companion quest which has a narrative payoff (after Durance). He learns the truth by himself (or learns to accept it) and finally achieves what he wanted, even if that truth isn't what he was expecting or wanted. It's not high literature or mind-blowing, but it's well-crafted and that's enough for this game. He even gets a bonus, which is always cool and I think everyone should get something mechanic-wise after their quest is completed.

 

[filpan]

He is my 2nd fav companion in the game. And he fights like crazy, fists are flying everywhere.

 

[Lacrymas]

One-shot Concelhaut, but I remember one-shotting him the first time too. Devil managed to solo him. Invis into Withering Strike; when he tried to Crushing Doom her, invis again into Blinding Strike and then finished him off with a Finishing Blow, the others were just about done with his adds. Some classes are blatantly better than others and 6 party members is too much even for PotD tuning, I doubt anything will challenge me while I finish WM2. The game needs better AI maybe, something on SCS's level, but that's not going to happen. WM is still good, even on a second playthrough, too bad the base game isn't. Maybe if it was, DF would've sold more. Pity.

 

[Falksi]

So I kinda enjoyed the first playthrough of this. Got around 3/4's of the way through then gave up due to bugs constantly making my items disappear. A nice 6/10 experience.

But fuck me is it hard work second time through. I mean I'm finding it REALLY fucking dull, with little in the way of surprises or C&C.

 

[Lacrymas]

Base game is indeed terrible, the good part is WM. And I'd say up to the Iron Flail fort, it's very railroady after that and the story starts to be incoherent and cheap. The combat also devolves into spamming the same overpowered shit every encounter. I liked WM2 last time more, but now I'm finding WM1 better.

 

[aweigh]

I didn't know they added a whole big new quest to PoE 1 via one of the patches:

"The Battle of Yenwood Field". Very interesting. I never did that (obviously since I finished it before patch 3.0).

The battle actually takes into account your defiance bay faction standing, your Caed nua employees and other minor factors and spawns NPCs there from those factions to help you out. Quite cool.

 

[TemplarGR]

I didn't know they added a whole big new quest to PoE 1 via one of the patches:



"The Battle of Yenwood Field". Very interesting. I never did that (obviously since I finished it before patch 3.0).

The battle actually takes into account your defiance bay faction standing, your Caed nua employees and other minor factors and spawns NPCs there from those factions to help you out. Quite cool.

Yeah, that was what really hurt PoE and even PoE II sales. They vastly improved the game with patches and expansions yet most people had already lost interest by then. In today's ADD market you only get a first impression once.

I did the correct thing, i had played for like 15-20 hours at release of PoE, but after constant updating and expecting expansions, i said "fuck it" and put it aside, planning to return to it when it was complete. And a couple of weeks ago i did that, and playing the final 3.xx version with both WM expansions was kinda cool. I even did the Battle of Yenwood Field .

Sadly, for Obsidian, this taught me to wait for Deadfire to be complete before i begin it as well. I only got Deadfire recently and i am eagerly waiting for 4.0 update and the final expansion before i really commit to my first campaign.