Please help me understand something about Neverwinter Nights

[Lilura]

So much shit you truly are a Codexer.

Why, thankyou. luxuriantbow.gif

You must love xfarts and farming empty maps and playing boring fighters with no options and no role-playing whatsoever. If so, BG1 is for you.

Yeah, and NWN1 OC is for newbs who need their hand held and wanna be egostroked with +16 Dragonbane reaperscythes...

 

[Infinitron]

except for the fact that it hasa toolset with a very active community and that you can take on a (limited) role as a DM, what's so good about NWN?

Indeed. What is good about Diablo either which doesn't even have any of that.

Well, even though I said it had an active community, I didn't mean a good one. I remember playing a series of modules a long time ago, which everyone said was the second coming of jesus and was by far the highest rated on the nexus, which was so forgettable, so bland, that I can't even remember the name of it. The only thing I vaguely remember, is that at one time, I think towards the end of the series, you had the head of a dragon, or a lizard, I can't remember which. I truly can't remember playing any story module on NWN that wasn't ten times worse than anything you see in other bioware games.

Are you thinking of Adam Miller's modules? http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=modules.detail&id=4273

 

[Volourn]

"Yeah, and NWN1 OC is for newbs who need their hand held and wanna be egostroked with +16 Dragonbane reaperscythes..."

Why do you lie?


"NWN1 was Diablo with D&D mechanics."

No.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure if there's ever been a game that could fairly be described as "Diablo with D&D mechanics".

 

[Captain Shrek]

I'm not sure if there's ever been a game that can fairly be described as "Diablo with D&D mechanics".

How about Diablo with DnD LIKE mechanics without all those intricate rules?

 

[Volourn]

No.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

"Love, I am not talking about Bioware."

Why do you lie?

 

[aris]

except for the fact that it hasa toolset with a very active community and that you can take on a (limited) role as a DM, what's so good about NWN?

Indeed. What is good about Diablo either which doesn't even have any of that.

Well, even though I said it had an active community, I didn't mean a good one. I remember playing a series of modules a long time ago, which everyone said was the second coming of jesus and was by far the highest rated on the nexus, which was so forgettable, so bland, that I can't even remember the name of it. The only thing I vaguely remember, is that at one time, I think towards the end of the series, you had the head of a dragon, or a lizard, I can't remember which. I truly can't remember playing any story module on NWN that wasn't ten times worse than anything you see in other bioware games.

Are you thinking of Adam Miller's modules? http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=modules.detail&id=4273

Yeah! Damn, you're good, understanding that from such vague clues. I played through all of them only for a sense of completion, and to be able to have said that I had played this alleged master piece, but I can't remember anything good about it. I don't know, I was young at the time of playing it, maybe what was good about it went above my head? Or is it just that fan-written story modules tends to be really overrated?

"Yeah, and NWN1 OC is for newbs who need their hand held and wanna be egostroked with +16 Dragonbane reaperscythes..."

Why do you lie?

Yeah, that is actually a lie. For egostroking insanely powerful weapon, BG2 is your one-go-to destionation, and also, incidentally, one of the reasons I think it's a really good game. In fact the best power gaming game I've ever played.

 

[Roguey]

Then the one game that seemed to specifically try to avoid this, NWN2:SoZ, gets bashed for not having every sidequest lead to epic dungeons. Sadly players seem to expect every level 4 bandit boss that robbed the PC's starting villiage to have hundreds of minions in an underground fortress rather than simply a hole in a mountain with room for a dozen people and their loot.

Pretty much everything in SoZ was boring. Wasting my time with loading screens and pointless timepadding fights.

 

[Lilura]

I'm not sure if there's ever been a game that can fairly be described as "Diablo with D&D mechanics".

When you can stroll into an illithid lair or beholder city and without any preparation, not even a casting of haste, just casually lay waste and leave them in ruin, you might as well be playing full blown hack and slay...

Oh... and a horrid other thing I couldn't keep blocked out of my mind: NWN has level-scaling, not the BG2 kind where you go here at level 15 and there's a mummy and go at 25 and there's a lich (which is only in selected areas and mainly for undead/casters), but full on, no-holds-barred, Oblivion style trashmob level scaling...

Yeah, that is actually a lie. For egostroking insanely powerful weapon, BG2 is your one-go-to destionation, and also, incidentally, one of the reasons I think it's a really good game. In fact the best power gaming game I've ever played.

It wasn't a lie, +14 was a (slight) exaggeration to illustrate a point. In BG2 your fighter can get maxed out at 10 ApR with +5/+5 dual-wielding and 25 STR.
This is obviously OP, but you still can't take down enemies as easily as you can in NWN series, where at epic levels (HotU) you can build something like this:
12 Fighter/7 Weapon Master/1 Bard/10 Red Dragon Disciple with a +epic 2hand weapon with x5 crit multiplier on critroll of 17-20, and 38 STR.
You can great cleave ubers all day with this...

 

[Roguey]

Oh... and a horrid other thing I couldn't keep blocked out of my mind: NWN has level-scaling, not the BG2 kind where you go here at level 15 and there's a mummy and go at 25 and there's a lich (which is only in selected areas and mainly for undead/casters), but full on, no-holds-barred, Oblivion style trashmob level scaling...

As I recall it scaled the number of creatures you fight, not their stats, which seems fine to me.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I'm not sure if there's ever been a game that can fairly be described as "Diablo with D&D mechanics".

When you can stroll into an illithid lair or beholder city and without any preparation, not even a casting of haste, just casually lay waste and leave them in ruin, you might as well be playing full blown hack and slay...

Oh... and a horrid other thing I couldn't keep blocked out of my mind: NWN has level-scaling, not the BG2 kind where you go here at level 15 and there's a mummy and go at 25 and there's a lich (which is only in selected areas and mainly for undead/casters), but full on, no-holds-barred, Oblivion style trashmob level scaling...

That is not what he is talking about.

 

[Infinitron]

On second thought, I do agree that NWN OC, while not quite a clone of Diablo, is certainly far more similar to Diablo than Icewind Dale was. Yet it's the latter that is more often compared to Diablo.

 

[Lilura]

As I recall it scaled the number of creatures you fight, not their stats, which seems fine to me.

Yeah, it scales number, but what I meant was that the scaling is rigidly tied to the level, and I never really liked this kind of thing.

 

[ghostdog]

Your character is so overpowered from a point on, that makes combat irrelevant.

I remember leaving my fighter alone in a tomb filled with dozens of undead, the game running, and when I came back 10 minutes later he had killed everything with auto-attack. The only slight problem was keeping companions alive.

 

[Captain Shrek]

On second thought, I do agree that NWN OC, while not quite a clone of Diablo, is certainly far more similar to Diablo than Icewind Dale was. Yet it's the latter that is more often compared to Diablo.

Because it was a Single Character game?

Wut?

 

[sea]

"Yeah, for a ruleset graced with skill checks and feats, NWN1 is sorely lacking in reactive dialogue, different ways to do quests and just general role-playing.

Most of it consists of FedEx with boring trashmob combat in your way, like getting the components for the plague cure, what a snoozefest that was.
You also only had access to one retarded henchman, who never acted correctly in combat. Protip, just choose the madmonk.
someone before mentioned "My First D&D Campaign", well this is definitely it, the default difficulty is such that Fireballs are party-friendly, and I recall Beholders and Illithids being mere trashmobs in HotU, and at one epic stage I was sure my Weapon Master could great cleave a horde of red dragons, if only I was given the chance..."

So much shit you truly are a Codexer.

Come on, Volly, give us a detailed breakdown of quests in NWN. Which ones aren't full of boring trash mobs? Which aren't FedEx quests? What is the precise ratio of "good" to "bad" quests? What about examples of the excellent, definitely-not-retarded companion AI? The difficult, well-designed combat encounters?

Oh right, you don't have any, because you're a shitposting alt nobody gives a crap about and whose shtick got old years ago.

Your character is so overpowered from a point on, that makes combat irrelevant.

I remember leaving my fighter alone in a tomb filled with dozens of undead, the game running, and when I came back 10 minutes later he had killed everything with auto-attack. The only slight problem was keeping companions alive.

Exactly my experience. The game is so fucking boring and repetitive that lately when there's a big fight I've just taken to walking away from the computer to get a drink, coming back and being ready to move on - of course, "move on" only ever means "another room of trash mobs to walk away from" so the question is, why the hell am I still playing this piece of shit?

 

[Infinitron]

Heh, Volourn is a lot of things, but he's no alt.

Or has the word "alt" lost its original meaning, much like "popamole"?

 

[sea]

It was just a shot in the dark, maybe he really does just have brain damage. Too many BioWare games I guess.

 

[aris]

moar like a guy playing a role for our collective amusement, like prosper.

Come to think of it, how do we know that prosper is not volourns alt?

 

[DragoFireheart]

Why do RPG developers feel the need to level scale shit!?

Why? Why do they fucking do it WHY WHY YOU FUCK NUTS WHY GIVE ME LEVELS IF YOU"RE GOING TO JUST ADJUST SHIT SO I FEEL LIKE I MADE NO PROGRESS

WHY GOD FUCKING CUNTS

 

[Xavier0889]

just curious - have you guys tried the AI patch? That one enhanced both henchmen's and enemies' AI.... foes actually chase and use their abilities/spells against you.

But it's still NWN OC, so...

 

[Infinitron]

Why do RPG developers feel the need to level scale shit!?

Why? Why do they fucking do it WHY WHY YOU FUCK NUTS WHY GIVE ME LEVELS IF YOU"RE GOING TO JUST ADJUST SHIT SO I FEEL LIKE I MADE NO PROGRESS

WHY GOD FUCKING CUNTS

Devil's advocate: What if combat difficulty and combat power isn't how the game is meant to show you your progress? What if it has other progression elements instead?

 

[Average Manatee]

I remember the first chapter the OC. Each area was specifically scaled to give you exactly 1 level for going through it. It was like Bioware may as well have thrown EXP out the window and just give you a level at pre-determined checkpoints. And of course level scaling is needed, how else could the same content in that chapter be playable with a level 2 character as it was with a level 6 character?

 

[Captain Shrek]

Devil's advocate: What if combat difficulty and combat power isn't how the game is meant to show you your progress? What if it has other progression elements instead?

Let me write my essay.