Please help me understand something about Neverwinter Nights

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

I stopped playing NWN2 OC in Chapter Two because I simply wasn't getting any enjoyment from it at all. Too much trash combat, too many filler quests. I'm not a masochist so I saw no reason to keep going. I'm sure The Brazilian Slaughter agrees with me that the OC for both games was terrible. I have the Platinum Edition and I'm going to play MoTB and SoZ, eventually.

I only played the first, Broseph. I played almost to the end but... oh fuck this I will just play Age of Mythology and Arcanum instead.

 

[Broseph]

I stopped playing NWN2 OC in Chapter Two because I simply wasn't getting any enjoyment from it at all. Too much trash combat, too many filler quests. I'm not a masochist so I saw no reason to keep going. I'm sure The Brazilian Slaughter agrees with me that the OC for both games was terrible. I have the Platinum Edition and I'm going to play MoTB and SoZ, eventually.

I only played the first, Broseph. I played almost to the end but... oh fuck this I will just play Age of Mythology and Arcanum instead.

Good man. Don't waste your time on this filth.

 

[Rivmusique]

I am here to stop the ignorance AT ALL COSTS.

. Kind of making me want to play NWN though, I have never tried it. If it has a fan this insane passionate it can't be all bad, right?

 

[Roguey]

Even Volly says that NWN OC is a 7/10 at best. Total Package is a 10/10 of course.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

I stopped playing NWN2 OC in Chapter Two because I simply wasn't getting any enjoyment from it at all. Too much trash combat, too many filler quests. I'm not a masochist so I saw no reason to keep going. I'm sure The Brazilian Slaughter agrees with me that the OC for both games was terrible. I have the Platinum Edition and I'm going to play MoTB and SoZ, eventually.

I only played the first, Broseph. I played almost to the end but... oh fuck this I will just play Age of Mythology and Arcanum instead.

Good man. Don't waste your time on this filth.

I mean, the game seemed cool at first, but then as it went on it just boring. Boring as hell RTwP combat, no proper party control, boring fights with boring enemies, boring plot, linear game. Bear I mind was not yet a hardcore RPGist at the time, when I got NWN it was 2001-2002 and we were undergoing in BR what has been called "The LAN House' Ferver", when proper broadband internet and cheap computers started to become common, but not enough for everyone to afford it, so most people played PC games in LAN Houses. My aunt had a LAN House at the time and my cousin got me a bunch of games, including NWN. Even then I had already played Fallout 1 and 2, and grew with cool games like the Fallout games, Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake, Age of Empires, so I was already on the Right True Path.

 

[sea]

So, did you ever finish playing this?

The first floor of Undermountain was cool but after that it kinda turned to the usual combat grind. Found the two floors below significantly less interesting, though not nearly as bad as anything in the original campaign. Now that I am on to chapter 2 however, things are looking up again. The drow city is fun to explore at least for now and I kinda feel like this is how the game should have started to begin with. I know they kind had to include Undermountain for story (and marketing?) reasons but the stuff in that dungeon felt like an over-extended prologue more than anything else.

ALSO FUCKING FUCK THIS GAME

The only reasons combat is ever any challenge are:

1) As a fighter-type you get feared and spend 5 minutes unable to control your character and running into corners where you then get gangbanged. Potions and stuff can help combat this but I have found very, very few in the game so far. Probably a good thing all things considered, but it still feels cheesy that the only way the game can mount any challenge is to literally make my character helpless and defenseless.

2) For some reason the game decides to have your character change target for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I am not sure if this is due to taunts or aggro mechanics of some kind (could be) but it's somewhat frustrating to have to re-select a target every 5 seconds. This seems to be the only way most enemies can survive more than 1-2 rounds against my character.

 

[Infinitron]

So, did you ever finish playing this?

The first floor of Undermountain was cool but after that it kinda turned to the usual combat grind. Found the two floors below significantly less interesting, though not nearly as bad as anything in the original campaign. Now that I am on to chapter 2 however, things are looking up again. The drow city is fun to explore at least for now and I kinda feel like this is how the game should have started to begin with. I know they kind had to include Undermountain for story (and marketing?) reasons but the stuff in that dungeon felt like an over-extended prologue more than anything else.

It gets even better later on (or at least, more interesting)

 

[Volourn]

"For some reason the game decides to have your character change target for absolutely no reason whatsoever."

You are just ignorant There are two possible reasons for the target switching.
You are obviously selecting new targets. NWN doesn't force you to chnage different targets. Auto attack means you attack chosen target til theya re dead and then switches to the nearest enemy afterwards but there is no switch in between except for AOO. Maybve the AOO makes you attack an enemy joining fray/casting a spell. FFS Do you even watch what your character is doing?

Toolbags are toolbags.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

So, did you ever finish playing this?

The first floor of Undermountain was cool but after that it kinda turned to the usual combat grind. Found the two floors below significantly less interesting, though not nearly as bad as anything in the original campaign. Now that I am on to chapter 2 however, things are looking up again. The drow city is fun to explore at least for now and I kinda feel like this is how the game should have started to begin with. I know they kind had to include Undermountain for story (and marketing?) reasons but the stuff in that dungeon felt like an over-extended prologue more than anything else.

It gets even better later on (or at least, more interesting)

Make sure you

Spoiler

romance Aribeth.

 

[Captain Shrek]

"For some reason the game decides to have your character change target for absolutely no reason whatsoever."

You are just ignorant There are two possible reasons for the target switching.
You are obviously selecting new targets. NWN doesn't force you to chnage different targets. Auto attack means you attack chosen target til theya re dead and then switches to the nearest enemy afterwards but there is no switch in between except for AOO. Maybve the AOO makes you attack an enemy joining fray/casting a spell. FFS Do you even watch what your character is doing?

Toolbags are toolbags.

THis.

Except for monk's kick attack feat.

 

[sea]

You are just ignorant There are two possible reasons for the target switching.
You are obviously selecting new targets. NWN doesn't force you to chnage different targets. Auto attack means you attack chosen target til theya re dead and then switches to the nearest enemy afterwards but there is no switch in between except for AOO. Maybve the AOO makes you attack an enemy joining fray/casting a spell. FFS Do you even watch what your character is doing?

1) Definitely not attacks of opportunity, the game tells you when they happen after all.

2) Doesn't happen when enemies are dead; happens when they are still alive.

Example: there's a cluster of Drow Commandos and a Drow Magus. I obviously tell my character to attack the Drow Magus. After getting 1-2 hits on it and almost killing it, my character decides on his own to start attacking one of the Drow Commandos and does not touch the Drow Magus again until I tell him to.

Example 2: my character is told to attack a specific enemy in a cluster of enemies and attacks a different enemy in that cluster instead.

Example 3: my character finishes killing one enemy but decides not to continue attacking anyone else in the immediate vicinity, even though it seems to be normal behavior to attack the others.

My guess is that there is some sort of script that makes AI take over what you are doing so you don't have to click every single thing while playing, but it might choose to override your decisions at times, cancel out what you told your character to do, etc.

 

[vorvek]

Actually, when running through a group of enemies to reach one that's behind them, it's not so uncommon for the PC to stop and fight other enemies on his path. It never happened to me that the PC decided not to fight an enemy in reach I had clicked on and instead decided to fight another, though.

 

[Volourn]

"After getting 1-2 hits on it and almost killing it, my character decides on his own to start attacking one of the Drow Commandos and does not touch the Drow Magus again until I tell him to."

So full of shit. The characetr doesn't magically choose to switch targets. It is like an AOO that nmakes him do it and not neccessarily switch off but he doesn't justr andomly switch for shits and giggles.


"my character is told to attack a specific enemy in a cluster of enemies and attacks a different enemy in that cluster instead."

Sounds like you misclicked. Do you watch what you do?


"my character finishes killing one enemy but decides not to continue attacking anyone else in the immediate vicinity,"

This can happen albeit rarely. Ususually it is ebcause the npc is just out of reach though either way if the enemies are bunched up it should auto attack the nearest foe (unless theya re far away).

NEWSFLASH; Autoattack does not mean you don't have to pay attention (unless youa re facinge nekies who can't hit at all heh).

 

[sea]

So full of shit. The characetr doesn't magically choose to switch targets. It is like an AOO that nmakes him do it and not neccessarily switch off but he doesn't justr andomly switch for shits and giggles.

Maybe there is a reason, I'm just saying the game does not make it clear. I noticed this in both the original campaign and expansions, playing the GOG version with no mods.

Sounds like you misclicked. Do you watch what you do?

Nope, not mis-clicked. The targeting cursor even highlights the correct enemy but my character attacks someone else.

 

[RK47]

inb4 -.- why do u Lie

 

[Lilura]

Sea, I can't wait until you get to the delectable Beholder caves lower tunnels. You will see the epitome of "balanced" NWN design there...

 

[RK47]

nothing can convince me that in a semi-solo adventure - a warrior failing a saving throw = completely fucked = good encounter design.

 

[sea]

Sea, I can't wait until you get to the delectable Beholder caves lower tunnels. You will see the epitome of "balanced" NWN design there...

Already done.

The game's combat is a fucking cakewalk so far. Literally steamrolling everything with my lol-tastic +10 sword (seriously?!).

Then I get to the beholder tyrant. Holy shit. So there's only one way into the room, one choke point, and the tyrant is able to decimate my health down to zero in only a few shots, despite the fact that I'm a mega-buffed fighter/barbarian with as big a hit point pool as possible and magic equipment blessed by the gods themselves?'

I dunno if I'd call it "imbalanced" or merely "challenging" but it's pretty hilarious how there was this sudden and massive spike out of nowhere.

nothing can convince me that in a semi-solo adventure - a warrior failing a saving throw = completely fucked = good encounter design.

That was literally the only time the original campaign (and several fights in the expansions) was ever tough, or rather just annoying and repetitive. There are basically two or three things that can kill me: instant death spells, fear or paralysis. Not really fun to have to buff, then save and reload a bunch and hope I make my 1/20 save.

 

[Lilura]

Sea, in Undermountain level 1 (I think north area) you should have found the Dragon Slippers, Greater Amulet of Health and Cowl of Warding. Between those three items, you are immune to the most annoying and common debilitations (including fear and paralysis).
You can also buy or find a Guiding Light belt which bestows immunity to death magic.

As for damage, you gotta laugh. I built an epic scythe-wielding WM, who great cleave critted a whole pack of frost giants in HotU (the damage was about 300 per cleave).

Are you playing with Tony K's AI? I appreciate the work the guy put into it, but I can tell you my build owned everything just as easily (except demi-lich). It sort of made the game more of a faceroll than it already is, due to having more control over your henchman. I did like how you could ask them to stealth then scout ahead, though.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

its really a non-thinking plot; the Plague is irrelevant...at the end of the day it's all about Ancient Space Lizards trapped in another dimension inside a rock under the city.

It seems that a good plot is in another castle

 

[abnaxus]

That was literally the only time the original campaign (and several fights in the expansions) was ever tough, or rather just annoying and repetitive. There are basically two or three things that can kill me: instant death spells, fear or paralysis. Not really fun to have to buff, then save and reload a bunch and hope I make my 1/20 save.

Have you tried beating the demi-lich?

 

[RK47]

Why do you even try to beat the game.
I beat SoU & NWN OC and thought that game was done at that point.
Carrying on to HotU is a little bit much at that point. I migrated to a new system and didn't feel like exporting my save game.

 

[Roguey]

Sea, I can't wait until you get to the delectable Beholder caves lower tunnels. You will see the epitome of "balanced" NWN design there...

It's literally impossible to balance high-level D&D.

 

[sea]

Sea, in Undermountain level 1 (I think north area) you should have found the Dragon Slippers, Greater Amulet of Health and Cowl of Warding. Between those three items, you are immune to the most annoying and common debilitations (including fear and paralysis).
You can also buy or find a Guiding Light belt which bestows immunity to death magic.

As for damage, you gotta laugh. I built an epic scythe-wielding WM, who great cleave critted a whole pack of frost giants in HotU (the damage was about 300 per cleave).

Are you playing with Tony K's AI? I appreciate the work the guy put into it, but I can tell you my build owned everything just as easily (except demi-lich). It sort of made the game more of a faceroll than it already is, due to having more control over your henchman. I did like how you could ask them to stealth then scout ahead, though.

1) I think I missed most of those items, as I didn't explore Undermountain 100%. Past it now and I can't go back to check. I may have found a couple of those but probably sold them, don't remember.

2) Yeah, even though I'm using comparatively "weak" longswords it's still pretty funny how fast I can mow down everything. Nothing survives more than 2-3 attacks (and I get 2 per round).

3) Yep, I am. Still too easy because it only fixes the AI, not the inherent imbalance in the scenario design.

I can't remember which demi-lich you're talking about. If you mean the optional boss in that tomb during chapter 3, where you have to teleport there by correctly "translating" some text on a pillar, then I did it. I completed probably 99% of the side-quests in the original campaign, so I'm sure I fought the demi-lich, I just don't recall if that was the one you're talking about.

Only real trouble I had in the original campaign was against those Lesser Devils or whatever during the endgame. Their resistance to weapons was too high for my +3 to hit them and there was no way for me to find a +4. I eventually had to console-hack myself a better weapon (+4) at which point they became a cakewalk.

nothing can convince me that in a semi-solo adventure - a warrior failing a saving throw = completely fucked = good encounter design.

Welcome to DnD. If the party fails a throw you are fucked. Believe it or not I have died 3 times in my current campaign because of the silly way the mechanics handles Randomness. I got one shotted at level 1/2 because there were crits on me that got confirmed. Yeah. Bad luck.

That's why D&D needs to be played in a party. The whole point is that characters are meant to make up for each others' weaknesses and that if one goes down, they can be revived by another once the fight is done. A total party wipe should only happen in cases of poor tactics/planning for the encounter, or consistently extremely bad luck. The chances of a group of 5-6 getting insta-critted all in the same fight are pretty rare, but if you have a party that relies on one single member to win fights, then that party has done something wrong composition-wise.

 

[Volourn]

"I got one shotted at level 1/2 because there were crits on me that got confirmed. Yeah. Bad luck."

Combat is dnagerous. FUCK YEAH!


"I can't remember which demi-lich you're talking about."

Demi lich is in HOTU. He is the 'Master' of the intelligent golem island.

People crying in this thread. IT'S FUKKIN' HIALRIOUS!!!