Rad-Ass Dungeons

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Another vote for the Stygian Abyss In Ultima Underworld - probably the most epic ever IMO.
Also agree with Lonely Vazdru regarding the sewers in Dark Sun: Shattered Lands

Spoiler

particularly if you go through the portal

 

[Modron]

The Glow in Fallout was very rad.

Mr. Slave's large intestine was a rad ass-dungeon.

 

[Carceri]

The Black Mountain Mines in Arcanum.

 

[DraQ]

This paradigm shift towards dungeons as an organic, dynamic location with rhyme and reason hasn't found its way into computer rpgs yet, unfortunately.

Morrowind, crappy AI aside, is mostly there.

Even Skyrim as long as it doesn't drift too far into it's idiotic corridor paradigm (Skyrim also features one of my pet peeves prominently - who the fuck maintains all those lit torches in some sealed Draugr tomb or some other asshole of the world?)

What happens in a room, stays in a room and nothing more than a few lame and most of all non threatening scripted events break this system. You trigger an alarm and the game spawns 2 completely harmless average enemy guards to "stop" you. Great Idea!

Because scripts aren't a valid solution. You need to program some awareness into the AI.
Simple scripts are contained and constrained by their very design.

Basically the only game that did dungeons right was a FPS

A lot FPS games have cool dungeons (way cooler than pretty much any cRPG in any case) because a lot of FPS games are dungeon crawls at heart, except with mutable stats replaced with twitch based gameplay - one only needs to play Hexen to realize that.

Arkngthand, from Morrowind. The thing you're there for is near the entrance but hard to see, so most players will explore the whole dungeon and still not find it. Excellent trolling on Bethesda's part.

I really liked it.

The major dungeons in Morrowind overall tend to be well designed.

Arkngthand Balmora, from Morrowind. The thing house you're there for is near the entrance but hard to see, so most players will explore the whole dungeon town and still not find it. Excellent trolling on Bethesda's part.

Fail, it's across the river from the entrance on the opposite end of town.
:sperg:

 

[4249]

On the FPS side of things, Jabba's ship in Dark Forces was pretty darn cool. Getting thrown into the pit with nothing and having to figure a way out while fighting your way through kell dragons and other nasties.

 

[Snorkack]

This paradigm shift towards dungeons as an organic, dynamic location with rhyme and reason hasn't found its way into computer rpgs yet, unfortunately.

Morrowind, crappy AI aside, is mostly there.

Well, yeah, sort of. Problem is, Morrowind's dungeons are extremely boring for the most part, with few exceptions that had interesting aspects but not a single truly unique one... ok, Vivec's home maybe - still not worthy for this topic imo.
Ok, I take that back. The interesting dungeons were in the minority, but there were some and most of them were found in the main quest. Still none of them deserves the attribute 'rad-ass', imo.
Also the fact that the game world was cluttered with caves of the ancients, smuggler hideouds and dwemer ruins made it awkward. On your way from the starter town to the slick strider, you could already easily spot the entrance to a presumably secret slaver cave

Even Skyrim as long as it doesn't drift too far into it's idiotic corridor paradigm (Skyrim also features one of my pet peeves prominently - who the fuck maintains all those lit torches in some sealed Draugr tomb or some other asshole of the world?)

If Skyrim had any remotely interesting dungeons (it had!), they were ruined by the fact that every crappy little mudcrab cave provided a convenient emergency exit at the end of the corridors to spare the player the hassle of finding his way out. This felt so incredible gamey and out-of-place. If they instead had implemented respawning enemies (where appropriate) to make your way out still dangerous and provided an almsivi spell for emergencies - that would have made the game infinite times better for my tastes.

 

[WhiteGuts]

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Fail, it's across the river from the entrance on the opposite end of town.
:sperg:

Still kind of works since you're told to go to the South Wall Cornerclub first.

(Skyrim also features one of my pet peeves prominently - who the fuck maintains all those lit torches in some sealed Draugr tomb or some other asshole of the world?)

The draugrs themselves, since they need to detect intruders in the tombs they're guarding.

On your way from the starter town to the slick strider, you could already easily spot the entrance to a presumably secret slaver cave

Not so secret, one of the villagers asks you to do something about them since the guards were bribed to look the other way.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Dark Heart of Uukrul; Wizardry 4 and 3; Chaos Strikes Back; Bard's Tale II; Wizards & Warriors + a few select dungeons from other CRPGs. Not a whole lot, really.

This paradigm shift towards dungeons as an organic, dynamic location with rhyme and reason hasn't found its way into computer rpgs yet, unfortunately.

Ugh, no thanks. I will be sure to abandon my dungeon-crawling hobby once video game dungeons are abstract and gamey no more; and I don't really want to abandon it.

 

[JarlFrank]

If Skyrim had any remotely interesting dungeons (it had!), they were ruined by the fact that every crappy little mudcrab cave provided a convenient emergency exit at the end of the corridors to spare the player the hassle of finding his way out. This felt so incredible gamey and out-of-place. If they instead had implemented respawning enemies (where appropriate) to make your way out still dangerous and provided an almsivi spell for emergencies - that would have made the game infinite times better for my tastes.

That wasn't even that horrible - the linearity was far, far worse. Heck, when even motherfucking Labyrinthian mainly consists of pretty much a straight line with few deviations, you know something is terribly wrong.

 

[JarlFrank]

Ugh, no thanks. I will be sure to abandon my dungeon-crawling hobby once video game dungeons are abstract and gamey no more;

Why?

 

[Crooked Bee]

Ugh, no thanks. I will be sure to abandon my dungeon-crawling hobby once video game dungeons are abstract and gamey no more;

Why?

Because abstract and gamey = fun, and you can do so much more with abstraction than simulation/realism.

 

[cepheiden]

Because scripts aren't a valid solution. You need to program some awareness into the AI.
Simple scripts are contained and constrained by their very design.

Gee, thanks Captain Obvious.
Now at least try to use that hollow thing on your shoulders and think a few steps further.
You will notice that all the crappy dungeons are simply the result of shitty design. They need some more content so they just add some extra rooms with extra enemies, pat themselves on the shoulder and call it a day.
So obviously the solution is to improve the design, which can be done easily by making dungeons shorter. But then they actually have to create more content for their game and they would rather spend their time to make fancy graphics, sell more or licking each others buttholes and so we end up with shitty dungeons again.

Also there is no such thing as an AI, only the illusion of it. What is referred to as AI in games is just a bunch of scripts and consequently exactly the thing you think isn't adequate to make a good dungeon.
Further the “very design” of a script is simply depending on how diligent and smart the programmer was. Thats the point of a script: it does what it is designed to do.
You probably just wanted to use the term “very”, because you are so very uneducated.

 

[Scroo]

I like Wizardry VI' dungeon design. Also Arx Fatalis which is basically one huge dungeon. I really like megadungeons.

 

[e-mailio estevez]

The Amala Network.

Spoiler

Not so much for its gameplay, but just because it was cool as heck. Such an unique, trippy atmosphere in that dungeon... I've yet to see anything else like it. I kind of want to start a run of that game just to play through it.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Because scripts aren't a valid solution. You need to program some awareness into the AI.
Simple scripts are contained and constrained by their very design.

Gee, thanks Captain Obvious.
Now at least try to use that hollow thing on your shoulders and think a few steps further.
You will notice that all the crappy dungeons are simply the result of shitty design. They need some more content so they just add some extra rooms with extra enemies, pat themselves on the shoulder and call it a day.
So obviously the solution is to improve the design, which can be done easily by making dungeons shorter. But then they actually have to create more content for their game and they would rather spend their time to make fancy graphics, sell more or licking each others buttholes and so we end up with shitty dungeons again.

Also there is no such thing as an AI, only the illusion of it. What is referred to as AI in games is just a bunch of scripts and consequently exactly the thing you think isn't adequate to make a good dungeon.
Further the “very design” of a script is simply depending on how diligent and smart the programmer was. Thats the point of a script: it does what it is designed to do.
You probably just wanted to use the term “very”, because you are so very uneducated.

At the very least, you have no idea what AI is.

 

[kain611]

I have got to say the Ancient Cave or what ever it is called in Lufia 2 Rise of the Sinistrals. That thing for the time was epic.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The Amala Network.

Those words...

I made the mistake of playing the game on Hard the first time, because I still didn't know Atlus means it. Hard greatly reduces your chances of running away from a battle unless you have a certain item. Failing to run away results in a free turn for the enemy. No shops. Free healing but it's tucked away in some corner of the dungeon. Random encounter rate straight outta the 90's. You could have three encounters before you even left the room with the inn. The horror.

Because abstract and gamey = fun, and you can do so much more with abstraction than simulation/realism.

Depends on the particular dungeon. It was quite inane when in Diablo 3 you have to enter some tombs in a shitty cemetery to recover some relic that was buried with the guy and it turns out they have gargantuan caves below them.

 

[deuxhero]

I always loved how you could find a complete set of armor and all the bones for a skeleton in that first smuggler cave in Morrowind. It's great for story telling (who was that? Was it even the smugglers who did it to them?) but also great mechanically because the armor is fairly useful for low level characters.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Throw him into prosperland men; he will discover that AI is [REDACTED]

 

[AMG]

 

[mondblut]

The Crypt of Whatshisname in Daggerfall.

Spoiler

 

[Doktor Best]

Why isnt Dark Souls mentioned here? Its dungeon design is simply on another level.

 

[Leitz]

Why isnt Dark Souls mentioned here? Its dungeon design is simply on another level.

Because it's japanese, dickhead.

 

[Kuhrazy]

All the behaviour you see is simply the result of some decently clever programming.

Try and guess what the "A" in "AI" stands for