Fallout Returning to Fallout

[Arulan]

After a few years hiatus it was time to return to Fallout. Just thought I'd create a thread here for my musings.

Among the many things Fallout does so well, one that I don't hear often enough is the organic nature in which you begin to discover what's going on in your corner of the wasteland. Specifically the Super Mutant threat and all connections to it. The feeling is that of discovering the narrative for yourself, rather than just being fed it.

This includes realizing that the seemingly dimwitted Super Mutants you discovered in Necropolis are actually being led by this Master figure, and somehow also involved in what appears to be a sophisticated operation to attack trade caravans and capture human specimens. The Nightkin are Super Mutants. The cult you paid no mind to at first also appear to be involved in his plot. The existence and eventual details to the Mariposa Military Base. The connection to Harold's story, Grey, and the Master.

A big component to why this works is the Tell Me About dialogue feature. Your suspicions and intuition will lead to asking relevant queries, and when NPCs affirm those connections, even if sometimes subtle, it's very rewarding. This extends to the exploration as well. Despite the lack of explicit direction, there is plenty of information if you only care to ask for you to make informed decisions about where to travel to next (based on your immediate needs; e.g. the Water Chip). There are certainly shortcomings with NPC information consistency however.

The pacing and experience here are subject to your own choices naturally. Your first experience may have led you to discovering the details in a different order, or during the key revelation moments. You may have been captured by Harry at the Watershed and made the connections then. Or you paid no mind to anything until the very end.

I think for all of Fallout's greatest strengths, the quality of the experience can vary greatly depending on your commitment with the pact the game asks of you -- that is that this place is real, treat it as such. The simulation, the world-building, and all of the reactivity are all in service to holding up their side of the arrangement, but it still requires you to actually believe in it. That's what makes little details like being rewarded for being skeptical to share information about your vault (reinforced by hearing about Vault 15's history) so incredible. Or realizing that Super Mutants are using radios for their operations and keeping one in your inventory for the moment to use it against them (though arguably there should have been other uses for this).

When a game can sufficiently convince you to believe in its setting, and continue to reward you for that investment it elevates the experience greatly. Failure to uphold that belief however and it all comes crashing down.

 

[normie]

Awesome musings. Great size. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new musings. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakin' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.

 

[agris]

yes yes arulan but most importantly what resolution are you playing it at?!

 

[luj1]

Fallout is like a classic novel, worth returning to every time

 

[Arulan]

yes yes arulan but most importantly what resolution are you playing it at?!

The most important question, of course! I played it at 960x540 this time to integer scale into 4K, but 480p is acceptable as well.

 

[smaug]

It's my favorite RPG alongside it's sequel, but I didn't like the plot transistion from getting the water chip to suddenly being burdened with the task of defeating the big bad guy who's going to destroy the world. It's well written despite this. I will admit my first run was my favorite as I ran across the whole world looking for the waterchip (was too scared to visit Necropolis after being attacked and missing some vital clues), however, I failed the time limit in the end so had to restart.

 

[Arulan]

It's my favorite RPG alongside it's sequel, but I didn't like the plot transistion from getting the water chip to suddenly being burdened with the task of defeating the big bad guy who's going to destroy the world. It's well written despite this. I will admit my first run was my favorite as I ran across the whole world looking for the waterchip (was too scared to visit Necropolis after being attacked and missing some vital clues), however, I failed the time limit in the end so had to restart.

I agree, the sudden ask of the Overseer to stop the mutant threat with seemingly limited information was a little jarring. I've heard others theorize that perhaps he was just trying to get rid of you -- he didn't actually expect you to succeed, but nonetheless I think that there could have been a few more steps in-between returning the Water Chip and receiving those final two quests from the Overseer. There are certainly shortcomings to be found. Some side quests were never finished, lacking in some obvious solutions (reporting Iguana Bob, Doc Morbid) or post-resolution reactivity (Watch out for Gizmo ...while he's lying face down in his own guts). I feel there could be more variety in the environmental uses of skills and items. And more. Nonetheless, Fallout remains one of the best examples of rewarding your commitment to its setting, in my opinion.

 

[agris]

yes yes arulan but most importantly what resolution are you playing it at?!

The most important question, of course! I played it at 960x540 this time to integer scale into 4K, but 480p is acceptable as well.

Perfect, as St. Timothy Cain would have it.

Consider going into sfall.ini and enabling black backgrounds for dialogue / character sheet screens, it's a cleaner experience that really puts you in the moment.

There's also this, if you enjoy Mark Morgan's music and have decent speakers/headphones: https://github.com/BGforgeNet/Fallout2-HQ-music

 

[Whipping Post]

Did anyone ever play that Fallout II mmo? It was an incredibly janky fan effort but what was interesting about it was that was basically just Fallout II (same map, engine, graphics, etc).. but an mmo. This was circa 2000-something. I didn't spend a lot of time with it but I did get a kick out of it because it kind of reminded of early UO. ie., chaotic and brutal.

 

[laclongquan]

Tell me about is a great feature, lifelike. Unfortunately it require much work in return for a halfhidden mechanism. You have to figure out who should know what and how THAT affect quests. It's too much extra work~ We love it but it's very understandable why noone reuse it in later games.

Overseer's later quest, from the beginning, sound to me like makeshift works, a barely covered excuse to send Vault Dweller away. So no, I dont find it jarring or anything. It's an excuse, after all. He may look like a nice old man, but if you think he is nice... too young too simple for a VD out and about among the wasteland~

 

[Whipping Post]

Tell me about is a great feature, lifelike. Unfortunately it require much work in return for a halfhidden mechanism.

Text parser is definitely the best dialogue system. I haven't seen it used in a game since Wizardry 8. I liked that Fallout implemented it but the hybrid approach meant that most players would ignore it. Devs must've realized this because I felt like they didn't utilize it to the fullest.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

yes yes arulan but most importantly what resolution are you playing it at?!

Unwavering

 

[oasis789]

FYI https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/fallout-et-tu-fallout-to-fallout-2-engine-conversion.131767/

 

[Lemming42]

It says something striking about Fallout, and about the RPG genre as a whole, that it's still one of the best (perhaps the best) cRPGs ever made despite how thin it actually is when you take an objective look at it. Several skills are wholly useless, quests tend to have either two or three heavily signposted and railroaded solutions that do not allow for any creative use of skills (the Tandi rescue quest being a glaring example - the Speech solution is boring, being the usual "if you invested in Speech enough, we'll just let you auto-win" scenario, and there's no Stealth solution despite it being one of the most obvious applications of the skill in the whole game), combat is pretty shallow albeit quite fun due to the superb audiovisual component, and the world continually fails to react to things you've done (Gizmo's a pile of gore on the ground, but the waitress in the bar is still terrified of him).

It offers a promise of something incredible that doesn't ever quite materialise, but much more crucially, has never subsequently materialised in any other RPG since that I can think of (the closest might be Age of Decadence which, as its critics love to point out, often trends more into being a CYOA game than a cRPG). As I get older and videogames generally speaking get worse, I'm finding I have a much higher appreciation for games that offer a vaguely-drawn sketch of something spectacular that they never quite deliver on as opposed to games that just settle for being mundane. Fallout's really the only RPG that's offered a glimpse into how the tabletop experience might be able to translate into videogame format - the fact that about 80% of the experience is missing ultimately doesn't matter, since the vision itself is so exciting and so far nobody's really offered anything better.

The setting definitely also helps, not just because it's very good but also simply just because it's not another fucking shitty Forgotten Realms (or worse, Forgotten Realms knockoff) game, which seems to be the template for RPGs.

 

[Sloul]

Did anyone ever play that Fallout II mmo? It was an incredibly janky fan effort but what was interesting about it was that was basically just Fallout II (same map, engine, graphics, etc).. but an mmo. This was circa 2000-something. I didn't spend a lot of time with it but I did get a kick out of it because it kind of reminded of early UO. ie., chaotic and brutal.

Fonline, im pretty sure you can find some thread about it.
Otherwise you can try your luck there: https://www.fonline-reloaded.net/
Playing solo is suicidal (or at least you can't get anything interesting from it).
Trying to get into a group is tough, because most player communities have usually been playing for a decade, and they will think you're spy from another group; they will probably test you for days before accepting you as a mere recruit.

There are only 2 or 3 viable builds to play with, and you pretty much do more or less do the same thing over and over, which got me to stop.
You can also stay at org bases and craft endlessly.
The game isn't per turn.

 

[Terenty]

The best Fallout there is. Great writing, world building, atmosphere...

Descent into The Glow was fucking epic

 

[agris]

Did anyone ever play that Fallout II mmo? It was an incredibly janky fan effort but what was interesting about it was that was basically just Fallout II (same map, engine, graphics, etc).. but an mmo. This was circa 2000-something. I didn't spend a lot of time with it but I did get a kick out of it because it kind of reminded of early UO. ie., chaotic and brutal.

Fonline, im pretty sure you can find some thread about it.
Otherwise you can try your luck there: https://www.fonline-reloaded.net/
Playing solo is suicidal (or at least you can't get anything interesting from it).
Trying to get into a group is tough, because most player communities have usually been playing for a decade, and they will think you're spy from another group; they will probably test you for days before accepting you as a mere recruit.

There are only 2 or 3 viable builds to play with, and you pretty much do more or less do the same thing over and over, which got me to stop.
You can also stay at org bases and craft endlessly.
The game isn't per turn.

I played FOnline 2 back in ~2010, was a lot of fun. Looks like it's still going. The Boneyard area was fun to meet people and grind out some levels and loot.

Can't speak to reloaded, but FO2 was turn-based.

 

[Arulan]

The best Fallout there is. Great writing, world building, atmosphere...

Descent into The Glow was fucking epic

The build up to it was handled very well. I remember stock-piling Rad-X and RadAway -- I didn't know how much I'd actually need. The use of the Geiger counter. The rumors you hear about it throughout the wasteland. The shock by one of the Brotherhood guards that they'd send me down there. And even after descending down, the holodisk log by a former Brotherhood expedition member sets up the dangers of what is to come.

 

[Vic]

It says something striking about Fallout, and about the RPG genre as a whole, that it's still one of the best (perhaps the best) cRPGs ever made despite how thin it actually is when you take an objective look at it. Several skills are wholly useless, quests tend to have either two or three heavily signposted and railroaded solutions that do not allow for any creative use of skills (the Tandi rescue quest being a glaring example - the Speech solution is boring, being the usual "if you invested in Speech enough, we'll just let you auto-win" scenario, and there's no Stealth solution despite it being one of the most obvious applications of the skill in the whole game), combat is pretty shallow albeit quite fun due to the superb audiovisual component, and the world continually fails to react to things you've done (Gizmo's a pile of gore on the ground, but the waitress in the bar is still terrified of him).

It offers a promise of something incredible that doesn't ever quite materialise, but much more crucially, has never subsequently materialised in any other RPG since that I can think of (the closest might be Age of Decadence which, as its critics love to point out, often trends more into being a CYOA game than a cRPG). As I get older and videogames generally speaking get worse, I'm finding I have a much higher appreciation for games that offer a vaguely-drawn sketch of something spectacular that they never quite deliver on as opposed to games that just settle for being mundane. Fallout's really the only RPG that's offered a glimpse into how the tabletop experience might be able to translate into videogame format - the fact that about 80% of the experience is missing ultimately doesn't matter, since the vision itself is so exciting and so far nobody's really offered anything better.

The setting definitely also helps, not just because it's very good but also simply just because it's not another fucking shitty Forgotten Realms (or worse, Forgotten Realms knockoff) game, which seems to be the template for RPGs.

Fallout is my most re-played cRPG, closely followed by BG. Part of it is that it's so short but I think the real reason why I keep coming back to it, and New Vegas is the atmosphere.

I don't believe Fallout is great because of some intangible concept like you described, it's great because of its atmosphere. I don't like dark games, never played Elden Ring for that matter, and even STALKER is something I don't enjoy. But Fallout, man it just has something, and I'm pretty sure it's the atmosphere.

The music, sound effects, animations, voice acting and the talking head puppets. It's just great.

New Vegas was able to capture a part of it, not quite as good as the original, but it makes up for it with a moddable engine.

 

[CHEMS]

It says something striking about Fallout, and about the RPG genre as a whole, that it's still one of the best (perhaps the best) cRPGs ever made despite how thin it actually is when you take an objective look at it. Several skills are wholly useless, quests tend to have either two or three heavily signposted and railroaded solutions that do not allow for any creative use of skills (the Tandi rescue quest being a glaring example - the Speech solution is boring, being the usual "if you invested in Speech enough, we'll just let you auto-win" scenario, and there's no Stealth solution despite it being one of the most obvious applications of the skill in the whole game), combat is pretty shallow albeit quite fun due to the superb audiovisual component, and the world continually fails to react to things you've done (Gizmo's a pile of gore on the ground, but the waitress in the bar is still terrified of him).

It offers a promise of something incredible that doesn't ever quite materialise, but much more crucially, has never subsequently materialised in any other RPG since that I can think of (the closest might be Age of Decadence which, as its critics love to point out, often trends more into being a CYOA game than a cRPG). As I get older and videogames generally speaking get worse, I'm finding I have a much higher appreciation for games that offer a vaguely-drawn sketch of something spectacular that they never quite deliver on as opposed to games that just settle for being mundane. Fallout's really the only RPG that's offered a glimpse into how the tabletop experience might be able to translate into videogame format - the fact that about 80% of the experience is missing ultimately doesn't matter, since the vision itself is so exciting and so far nobody's really offered anything better.

The setting definitely also helps, not just because it's very good but also simply just because it's not another fucking shitty Forgotten Realms (or worse, Forgotten Realms knockoff) game, which seems to be the template for RPGs.

Fallout is my most re-played cRPG, closely followed by BG. Part of it is that it's so short but I think the real reason why I keep coming back to it, and New Vegas is the atmosphere.

I don't believe Fallout is great because of some intangible concept like you described, it's great because of its atmosphere. I don't like dark games, never played Elden Ring for that matter, and even STALKER is something I don't enjoy. But Fallout, man it just has something, and I'm pretty sure it's the atmosphere.

The music, sound effects, animations, voice acting and the talking head puppets. It's just great.

New Vegas was able to capture a part of it, not quite as good as the original, but it makes up for it with a moddable engine.

I remember when i was a kid playing fallout for the first time and a shat a brick when Harold's talking head popped out on the screen. Wasn't expecting that.

Fallout 1 got it all on atmosphere. You get to blackmail a guy selling human meat kebabs and freak him out while eating them, what's not to love

 

[ropetight]

First time I played Fallout was as a demo on a companion CD of the computer magazine.
In that demo, much shorter combat demo than one made for AoD later, you had guy in leather jacket with minigun that could rip brahmin apart along with the people there.
And it had inventory, weapon switching, character sheet, just to show it was serious.
It was fabulous.
After that I waited for the release of full game like junkie for next fix.

And when the game came out, it was so much more than I hoped for - the hype was real!
So, it is partly Fallout's guilt that for the next 10-20 years I believed and jumped all those fake hype trains.