Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[pippin]

I'm surprised Wesp's patch is still getting regular updates. Last time I played I think it was on version 8.2 or something like that, now it is 9.5.

How much restored content and etc has been added since then? Enough to warrant a replay? Also, how the hell does the guy keep finding content to restore after all these years?

It's not only that. By releasing a new version, it's likely that Wesp ends up breaking something else that was fine last time. There's a lot of bugfixing for things Wesp broke with every new patch. But hey, he's on his own, so I guess we can cut him some slack. When it comes to finding new content... well, that's the power of autism for you.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm surprised Wesp's patch is still getting regular updates. Last time I played I think it was on version 8.2 or something like that, now it is 9.5.

How much restored content and etc has been added since then? Enough to warrant a replay? Also, how the hell does the guy keep finding content to restore after all these years?

It's not only that. By releasing a new version, it's likely that Wesp ends up breaking something else that was fine last time. There's a lot of bugfixing for things Wesp broke with every new patch. But hey, he's on his own, so I guess we can cut him some slack. When it comes to finding new content... well, that's the power of autism for you.

Wesp is hardly autistic. From what I've gathered, he's one of the two known sane and socially fully functional modders. The other one is Oscuro.

 

[Athelas]

I'm surprised Wesp's patch is still getting regular updates. Last time I played I think it was on version 8.2 or something like that, now it is 9.5.

How much restored content and etc has been added since then? Enough to warrant a replay? Also, how the hell does the guy keep finding content to restore after all these years?

It's not only that. By releasing a new version, it's likely that Wesp ends up breaking something else that was fine last time. There's a lot of bugfixing for things Wesp broke with every new patch. But hey, he's on his own, so I guess we can cut him some slack. When it comes to finding new content... well, that's the power of autism for you.

Isn't that precisely why the patch comes in a basic and plus version? The questionable stuff (i.e. 'restored' content based on vague drafts/notes) is restricted to the plus patch, which seems like a perfect solution to me.

 

[Barbarian]

I'm surprised Wesp's patch is still getting regular updates. Last time I played I think it was on version 8.2 or something like that, now it is 9.5.

How much restored content and etc has been added since then? Enough to warrant a replay? Also, how the hell does the guy keep finding content to restore after all these years?

It's not only that. By releasing a new version, it's likely that Wesp ends up breaking something else that was fine last time. There's a lot of bugfixing for things Wesp broke with every new patch. But hey, he's on his own, so I guess we can cut him some slack. When it comes to finding new content... well, that's the power of autism for you.

Isn't that precisely why the patch comes in a basic and plus version? The questionable stuff (i.e. 'restored' content based on vague drafts/notes) is restricted to the plus patch, which seems like a perfect solution to me.

I think I played the plus version last time and it was fine. I had already beaten the vanilla game so wanted to see whatever was new.

I assume he hasn't added anything "major"? I remember noticing small details, like new character models, items found in diffferent places than usual and the odd new dialog exchange here and there. 9.5 patch notes mentions new rooms, additions to the museum quest and new music(???). I was just curious if anyone played the recent patches and could tell me what is up.

 

[pippin]

iirc it's not new music but unused tracks. Personally I think his quest to restore EVERYTHING in Bloodlines is a bit excessive. And I didn't had any sort of problem when playing the game in Vanilla form, so it's very unlikely that I'll ever used mods. Never cared too much for the other mod and the whole drama between both sides makes me a bit sick to be honest. EVERY thread that mentions Bloodlines' mods HAS to have these sort of discussions.

 

[Barbarian]

I'm just making questions bro, no drama.

 

[pippin]

I know, it's just that is a bit tiring to see all these people quarreling about this or that mod when you just want actual info. Tessera's mod was finished a long time ago but Wesp keeps getting updates. In the end it's just too much hassle for me, especially when the game works fine with its latest official patch. Sorry if I overreacted a bit

 

[Sjukob]

In what way? New content aside, what are the gameplay changes in Clan quest?

Clan quest combines arsenal and camarilla mods + wesp's patch . I have played a long time ago , but I remember that they changed disciplines and made firearms significantly stronger and added some new ones . Oh and the bloodloss overtime , you will have to feed while roaming , from time to time .

 

[Prime Junta]

BTW I thought the plus patch was pretty damn good. The only bit that stuck out in a bad way was the library mission's final scene. Everything else was really subtle; I honestly couldn't tell what was in the original and what was in the patch, since it's about ten years since I last played it.

(I'm guessing Grout's mansion had a pretty big new wing though? Don't remember anything like it, and it wasn't necessary to visit it to complete the level. Thought it was very cool.)

I also only encountered a fairly reasonable number of bugs; got stuck in the geometry a couple of times which forced a reload, but no crashes, broken quests, or otherwise seriously annoying stuff.

 

[baturinsky]

New Grout's Wing is pretty banal by now variation of Constantine's mansion from Thief - sideways rooms and such. And yes, it's completely bypassable.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Clan quest combines arsenal and camarilla mods + wesp's patch . I have played a long time ago , but I remember that they changed disciplines and made firearms significantly stronger and added some new ones . Oh and the bloodloss overtime , you will have to feed while roaming , from time to time .

Yeah, that's all Camarilla Ediiton mod (even the increased firearms damage) which I've found to be interesting at first but during the course of the game realized it didn't really change the way I played to any noticeable degree (it just made ending even more of a cake).

 

[Jaesun]

I've tried wesp's 7.X or 8.X Plus patch a few years ago, and while I get what he was doing, I just didn't really enjoy the changes.

For now, I just stick to his basic patches, and even though the game still has some BALANCE issue, I still find it enjoyable.

And thank you wesp, for continuing to do this work.

 

[Old One]

I've tried wesp's 7.X or 8.X Plus patch a few years ago, and while I get what he was doing, I just didn't really enjoy the changes.

I'm in the same boat. If you've played vanilla before you play the plus patch, you run into lots of little things that have been altered for no apparent reason. They're not necessarily bad changes, but they're not good either, and there was no reason to fiddle with them in the first place.

 

[baturinsky]

What added content VtMB needs is alternative ways of doing already present quests. Especially mandatory ones.

 

[Barbarian]

Most sidequests are alright I guess. Even Hollywood and Chinatown have mostly quests with different ways to go around.

The main quest gets more and more railroaded and grindy as the game advances though, the sewers being the most annoying part.

 

[baturinsky]

Finished Malk/Plus run.

I have raised Defence and Soak as much as I could, result was roughly same as Tremere with average these stats and Blood Shield.
Final bosses had very different resistances. Flamethrower has killed Tzimisce very fast, but it did very low damage to others. Ming-Xao was killed with Aug, Sheriff was only one that could be done with melee.

Anarch ending with giving a key to LaCroix gives the most amount of backstory.

 

[Ultra]

Regrettably, I think I have to admit defeat with this game. I just don't get it. This is my third attempt (Brujah female) and I just hit the Hollywood sewers where my first attempt also petered out.

The fact that I don't get it irks me though. The minute to minute experience of ice skating around, getting stuck on geometry, in fact geometry in general is some of the weirdest I've ever experienced in a game, Euclid is spinning in his grave. Maybe it's the collision meshes or whatever you call a thing that tells another thing not to clip but you sort of bounce off people even when they're three feet away. Doors are constantly shutting after you opened them for no reason and you often get stuck.

Here's a scenario: I'm on the boat. There's a sarcophagus surrounded by cops that I need to get a look at. I'm a Brujah with no points in stealth and all my disclipines are combat buffs. I've been told explicitly not to kill anybody. So, now what? I can't sneak and even if I could it's difficult to see how that would work when there's cops around like somebody said free doughnuts and there's no way to distract them. There's an enormous cargo container dangling invitingly over some dumb pigs head but beside that...
Where's the options?

The plaguebearer quest line ends in a boss fight, Jeanette sends me into a diner where I know the three guys are about to jump me as soon as I pick up the phone but I have to pick up the phone, it's a main quest. Fine, I then kill them and the cops show up. It's a nice vignette the first time and when I played previously with a class that can obfuscate it felt better but my Brujah can't do that and there's no back door. So I have to run out the front into pig bullets and awkwardly escape down an alley. Somebody earlier in the thread said that the main quests get more railroaded in the end game but you don't get more railroaded than that. Grouts mansion like the ocean house is a one way street and time hasn't been kind to exposition via breadcrumb audio logs or diaries.

I've thought a lot about the game over the past couple of days. Undoubtedly a testament to its strong writing which really is head, shoulders, knees and toes above everything else in games. Seriously, bra-fucking-vo because it's consistently humorous, concise and engaging and conversations are a pleasure to participate in (mostly). Other games have good conversations too, they must have, but I would have to sit and think for a while to find a similar level because this kind of quality is so thin on the ground. The VO is the best I've heard in games. It's actually surreal almost to find yourself enjoying fully VO'd first person conversation because in everything else it's either a chore or just depressing. For a moment back in 2004 the future of writing and acting in games was pretty bright!
I even enjoy the hammy theatrical facial and bodily animations. There's one where they reel back in fright or alarm and it's like, huh, so you can emote with 3d marionettes in a fun and entertaining way, never seen that before.

On the other hand I don't like vampires. I hate the music, that beret wearing cunt can fuck right off because the plaguebearer quest was shit and no I'm not a cammy. I actually want to get militant with nines and Jack but the game won't let me. Deb of night was cool, chunk was funny and this is by far the best game I desperately want to love or even like enough to finish but can't.

 

[Roguey]

Here's a scenario: I'm on the boat. There's a sarcophagus surrounded by cops that I need to get a look at. I'm a Brujah with no points in stealth and all my disclipines are combat buffs. I've been told explicitly not to kill anybody. So, now what? I can't sneak and even if I could it's difficult to see how that would work when there's cops around like somebody said free doughnuts and there's no way to distract them. There's an enormous cargo container dangling invitingly over some dumb pigs head but beside that...
Where's the options?

You either kill them and accept disappointing the prince, use your social skills on the guy you meet to provide a distraction, or use blood buff to pump up your dex for free sneak points. Unless you're using the plus patch, I don't believe you need a super-high sneak score for that area anyway if you do everything by looking at the computer.

The plaguebearer quest line ends in a boss fight, Jeanette sends me into a diner where I know the three guys are about to jump me as soon as I pick up the phone but I have to pick up the phone, it's a main quest. Fine, I then kill them and the cops show up. It's a nice vignette the first time and when I played previously with a class that can obfuscate it felt better but my Brujah can't do that and there's no back door. So I have to run out the front into pig bullets and awkwardly escape down an alley. Somebody earlier in the thread said that the main quests get more railroaded in the end game but you don't get more railroaded than that. Grouts mansion like the ocean house is a one way street and time hasn't been kind to exposition via breadcrumb audio logs or diaries.

I don't recall ever running into cops after completing that quest, might be a plus patch thing.

I thought it was pretty funny how when I killed the kiiller nun in the porn place with guns, the girl waiting in the room and the guy upstairs didn't notice or care at all, but when I get back to VV she yells at me about all the noise I made.

 

[Prime Junta]

Here's a scenario: I'm on the boat. There's a sarcophagus surrounded by cops that I need to get a look at. I'm a Brujah with no points in stealth and all my disclipines are combat buffs. I've been told explicitly not to kill anybody. So, now what? I can't sneak and even if I could it's difficult to see how that would work when there's cops around like somebody said free doughnuts and there's no way to distract them. There's an enormous cargo container dangling invitingly over some dumb pigs head but beside that...
Where's the options?

Spoiler

Option 1: run and hide. It's not game over when you're spotted. As long as you can get under cover somewhere, they'll stop looking. You have Celerity, use it.

Option 2: There's a security monitor in the security room. Wonder if you could do something with that...?

The plaguebearer quest line ends in a boss fight, Jeanette sends me into a diner where I know the three guys are about to jump me as soon as I pick up the phone but I have to pick up the phone, it's a main quest. Fine, I then kill them and the cops show up. It's a nice vignette the first time and when I played previously with a class that can obfuscate it felt better but my Brujah can't do that and there's no back door. So I have to run out the front into pig bullets and awkwardly escape down an alley. Somebody earlier in the thread said that the main quests get more railroaded in the end game but you don't get more railroaded than that. Grouts mansion like the ocean house is a one way street and time hasn't been kind to exposition via breadcrumb audio logs or diaries.

If you've only invested in combat skills, then you do have to do combat a lot. It's a shame you didn't develop any Intimidate or Persuade...

I've thought a lot about the game over the past couple of days. Undoubtedly a testament to its strong writing which really is head, shoulders, knees and toes above everything else in games. Seriously, bra-fucking-vo because it's consistently humorous, concise and engaging and conversations are a pleasure to participate in (mostly). Other games have good conversations too, they must have, but I would have to sit and think for a while to find a similar level because this kind of quality is so thin on the ground. The VO is the best I've heard in games. It's actually surreal almost to find yourself enjoying fully VO'd first person conversation because in everything else it's either a chore or just depressing. For a moment back in 2004 the future of writing and acting in games was pretty bright!
I even enjoy the hammy theatrical facial and bodily animations. There's one where they reel back in fright or alarm and it's like, huh, so you can emote with 3d marionettes in a fun and entertaining way, never seen that before.

On the other hand I don't like vampires. I hate the music, that beret wearing cunt can fuck right off because the plaguebearer quest was shit and no I'm not a cammy. I actually want to get militant with nines and Jack but the game won't let me. Deb of night was cool, chunk was funny and this is by far the best game I desperately want to love or even like enough to finish but can't.

I gave up halfway through my Brujah playthrough just because I thought it was a bit one-dimensional. If you have disciplines like Dominate, Dementation, or Obfuscate you get more options to do stuff. Even without them it can be a quite a bit of fun with a quite a few options if you invest in some non-combat skills. You don't need all of them, mind, but if you develop, say, two of Hacking/Lockpicking/Persuade/Intimidate you will suddenly find a lot of options opening up. The social skills are especially important for Brujah because they don't have Dominate or Dementation which kind of "shortcut" them.

 

[baturinsky]

On a boat, if you approach to the nearest cop, he will do the most of the work for you. I don't know why LaCroix have not mentioned that he bought him. Or was this cop bought by someone else?
Also I think you can just run past cops on Boat and in Museum them without killing.

During Dinner fight cops are not supposed to be triggered. Maybe you have killed a civilian? There is one guy hanging in Dinner at that time.

Also, play with Wesp's patch.

 

[Hegel]

Brujahs have presence, easily the most overpowered discipline. Just get in range and mesmerize them.

 

[Ultra]

You suck.

Fuck you too

You either kill them and accept disappointing the prince, use your social skills on the guy you meet to provide a distraction, or use blood buff to pump up your dex for free sneak points. Unless you're using the plus patch, I don't believe you need a super-high sneak score for that area anyway if you do everything by looking at the computer.



I don't recall ever running into cops after completing that quest, might be a plus patch thing.

I thought it was pretty funny how when I killed the kiiller nun in the porn place with guns, the girl waiting in the room and the guy upstairs didn't notice or care at all, but when I get back to VV she yells at me about all the noise I made.

You can't do everything on the computer. You have to approach the sarcophagus to trigger 'seeing it' before you can leave. I massacred them in the end. I also had the same thing with VV and I aggroed the girl by hitting her through the wall of the peepshow booth. I only ever installed the basic patch and cops have shown up every time at the diner. It's possible that's because I've accdentally hit the guy working there every time because the melee combat is not exactly precise.

Brujahs have presence, easily the most overpowered discipline. Just get in range and mesmerize them.

I didn't have mesmerize? I had potence, celerity, presence and bloodbuff.

PrimeJunta I did have some intimidate, 5 I think, but how does that come up in the plaguebearer quest? it still ends in a boss fight no?

 

[Roguey]

You can't do everything on the computer. You have to approach the sarcophagus to trigger 'seeing it' before you can leave.

You missed an option. You can trigger that by looking at it through a camera.

 

[Ultra]

You missed an option. You can trigger that by looking at it through a camera.

Oh you can huh, fuck, that's cool. Missed it, my fault.

 

[Prime Junta]

PrimeJunta I did have some intimidate, 5 I think, but how does that come up in the plaguebearer quest? it still ends in a boss fight no?

Nah the plaguebearer quests do end in boss fights but you're a Brujah, you should be able to handle them. You should be able to intimidate your way through the diner one though. I know I didn't get into a fight there when playing with mine.