Community RPG Codex Best Vintage RPG Poll

[Zeriel]

Codex favorite wizardry 1 from dos era -> from an artistic standpoint much prettier than modern 3d games!

Another codex favorite from dos era: The Dark Heart of Uukrul -> from an artistic standpoint much prettier than modern 3d games!

yet another codex favorite from dos era might and magic 1 -> from an artistic standpoint much prettier than modern 3d games!

Note how the counter-argument is just strawman and ridiculous examples. Because you have no argument.

 

[NJClaw]

Note how the counter-argument is just strawman and ridiculous examples. Because you have no argument.

 

[Zeriel]

Harlan Ellison being involved in videogames early on and then never again when it went corporate is a great example, actually.

 

[Butter]

Another codex favorite from dos era: The Dark Heart of Uukrul -> from an artistic standpoint much prettier than modern 3d games!

I agree. Best UI design of the DOS era, crisp sprites, good overall use of colour, very easy on the eyes. Many modern games could learn a thing or two from this.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Oh, I recall when Amiga was released and looking at the graphics and some sound. SMC (software of the month club) was a good way to get a lot of sampling by anyone developing. When I first saw the still art of Sword of Sodan, Spirit of Excalibur, just about every Psygnosis game, and versions of Gold Box, Bard's tale, etc... oh how I drooled. Looking at early PC in comparison and I spat at the PC. It isn't like I wasn't a GFX whore for a long while.

The distribution of games to find where I lived and AMIGA repairs was a bitch though. Some shops were like hidden back alley thieve's guilds with boarded windows and mixed stock. My cousin gave me some of his games when he sold his A500. (I would have bought that to have 2 damn him). Love the Amiga and c64 and the Vic20. That's some old nostalgia and play I still revisit.

Btw, I still love the old Sword of Fargoal for Vic20. I am pissed that the one remake (now sitting on FREEGAMES) never had that tileset or soundset. Damn them.


I can tell this emulation was sped up. The sound is off and sequences end too fast.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, it's one of my pet peeves when people play a game on an emulator and think they got the full experience. Early console emulators (like NES and SNES) are very close, but PC emulators fucking suck to get the genuine experience of playing the games on real hardware. It's not even within 50% of the real thing.

 

[Butter]

funny how games so beloved by codexian edgelords are now "ridiculous examples"

like wizardry 1 ( 47th place on codex poll! ) and of course graphics in wiz 1 is never criticized on codex unlike quess what? any modern 3d game...

"ridiculous examples" my ass

All the graphics whores get filtered by screenshots of Wizardry 1 and never even play it. The people who play it praise it for its gameplay and subsequently vote for it in greatest CRPG polls. You're not the first retarded person who thinks graphics are more important than gameplay. You're just on the wrong website.

 

[Darth Roxor]

yes, that you are a retard

 

[Mortmal]

Created by three students on a computer released in 1985.

According to mobygames it was released in 1993
https://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/perihelion

Who's lying mobygames or you?

Not to mention that compared to other games released in 1993 on pc this amiga shit looks like pile of shit.

He's not lying, just forgot things , i thought the same too an earlier release, but it's really a 1993 game post the greatest pc rpgs. So an amiga swan song. Not a shitty game by the way besides the aesthetic, it has combat similar to gold box games.

 

[Zeriel]

The thing is I don't *particularly* mind the graphics on those old RPGs. What really put me off however is that the vast majority of them are unfun, broken, horribly balanced. Most of them have terrible UI, the gameplay complexity of a puddle, story written by a 10 years old, squeaking sound design (looking at you Wizardry 7, the resting sound is awesome however), ... No really I don't understand the nostalgia goggles.
The true golden era is 1995-2000.

1995-2000 covers the transition period of actual DOS games (1995-1998) to API, Windows games though (1998-2000+). And that's what kicked off this whole clusterfuck, Roguey's (dumb) assertion that pre-API games were bad and post-API games good. And citing Lilura is exactly why I brought up NWN, because Lilura is the kind of lobotomized Karen who would say that actually NWN looks better than crisp 2D art.

No one is comparing Witcher 3 to Ultima 1.

 

[Zibniyat]

Which one of these is artistically more appealing?

"Artistically appealing" sounds like an attempt to simultaneously dismiss anyone whose personal preference is for the latter and supposedly confirm the objective overall superiority of the former.

How about this? Which one is more appealing? Which one is clearer and more coherently-lookin? Clearly the second one.

Regarding "artistry", the first one has a third which looks good (with the characters), and maybe some nice buttons. The rest is awfully oversized ruining the overall harmony.

Or in short: the second one looks vastly better when everything is accounted for. "Artistry" isn't the only thing that matters, and combining 1/3rd of good art with 2/3rds of serviceable to atrocious one does not equal to the whole being good as well, just so you know.

 

[jackofshadows]

But certainly comparing 90s 2D art to the NWN era... it's not even close. When the 3D transition was first happening the result was fucking hideous on an objective level, compare NWN 1 to Eye of the Beholder, any DOS adventure game, etc, it's not even fucking close.

Which one of these is artistically more appealing?

Look, early 3d games are ugly. Hardly anyone argue agaisnt that. But this bias towards old games such as EotB is really tiring. EotB has good art style - yes, and it's no secret this one is particularly endearing for most DnD enthusiasts (another level of bias) but that's pretty much about it. In practice we have some good-looking art bits here and there while overall look leave much to be desired. Even Perihelion - the ultimate cherry pick, which has definitely awesome (my own bias, I guess) art style (and the soundtrack, and the setting but that's besides the point) looks great for 1993 at best. Who cares about limitations authors had back then?

Some other good-lookers like QFG4, M&M4 or Wiz 7 look meh today. And they're the best. These games are valued not for the looks, you know it and still for some reason are trying to put them above NWN in terms of visuals. NWN isn't better or worse, it's just as bad, basically. But it's better to say that there's no point to compare these in the first place. Just leave them at the different eras and be done with it. It's like comparing mechanics of something like Wiz 1 with Diablo 2 or some modern-ish action-RPG. I'm sure lots of prestigious gentelmen here prefer the former, bring up the decline term but imo that would be pointless.

 

[Lady Error]

Some other good-lookers like QFG4, M&M4 or Wiz 7 look meh today. And they're the best. These games are valued not for the looks, you know it and still for some reason are trying to put them above NWN in terms of visuals.

There is such a thing as art style, which is awesome in the case of Wizardry 7 for example. It creates atmosphere. Having high-res graphics does not mean that the art itself is good.

 

[Zeriel]

Some other good-lookers like QFG4, M&M4 or Wiz 7 look meh today. And they're the best. These games are valued not for the looks, you know it and still for some reason are trying to put them above NWN in terms of visuals.

There is such a thing as art style, which is awesome in the case of Wizardry 7 for example. It creates atmosphere. Having high-res graphics does not mean that the art itself is good.

Yeah, that was basically my point. But this was all provoked by Roguey being a troll as per usual, so people weren't making polemics, they were responding to a previous argument.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I discussed this in a pm about graphics and sound can add a deep atmosphere if it really syncs with the gameplay. I was talking about c64 Temple of apshai and add ons over the later trilogy release. I do like the trilogy interface though on st, amiga, and MAC. The atmosphere takes a nose dive and unconfirmed on difficulty. I found a few issues in gameplay as well. Say what you will about early RPGs even on the PLATO... they were a bridge for tabletop to the digital world. I'd fucking take a good classic rerelease of those games even with their original graphics/sound (but a bit of streamline would be cool).

c64 ACS kick the crap out of the other releases except for 1 thing... the tilesets are incomplete on c64. I laugh at the amiga & DOS for replacing the staff/cane pic for a ladder. Wtf. Ladder of healing? Carry it old man!

CARRY IT!!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Beign called a retard by darth retard must be some kind of honor!

Yes, your other honour.

 

[Van-d-all]

claiming 1996 was the beginning of the decline is retadred to say the least.

While setting a precise moment as the start of decline is just debatable, whatever that moment would be in the end, claiming all later games are declinist is simply false.

 

[Null Null]

I discussed this in a pm about graphics and sound can add a deep atmosphere if it really syncs with the gameplay. I was talking about c64 Temple of apshai and add ons over the later trilogy release. I do like the trilogy interface though on st, amiga, and MAC. The atmosphere takes a nose dive and unconfirmed on difficulty. I found a few issues in gameplay as well. Say what you will about early RPGs even on the PLATO... they were a bridge for tabletop to the digital world. I'd fucking take a good classic rerelease of those games even with their original graphics/sound (but a bit of streamline would be cool).

c64 ACS kick the crap out of the other releases except for 1 thing... the tilesets are incomplete on c64. I laugh at the amiga & DOS for replacing the staff/cane pic for a ladder. Wtf. Ladder of healing? Carry it old man!

CARRY IT!!

There probably is a tradeoff where once they could cram in more graphics gameplay was de-emphasized. You could make a game with great gameplay and great graphics, but then it takes longer to get out and you get scooped.

Back in the 80s games were closer to their D&D roots, and D&D was closer to its wargame roots.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

The games in this poll are systemically superior in many ways compared to modern games. If you can’t get beyond the graphics then sucks to be you.

 

[Roguey]

The games in this poll are systemically superior in many ways compared to modern games. If you can’t get beyond the graphics then sucks to be you.

Nothing to do with graphics, more to do with interface and content. A few years ago, I completed Wasteland because I was bored and had nothing better to do and wanted context for Wasteland 2, but I would not consider it an enjoyable experience.

 

[APGunner]

Which one of these is artistically more appealing?

NWN is without a doubt a better looking game. The quality of models and textures is good enough, especially when compared to the very first 3d games.
It is one of the first games to use real-time shadows, motion-capture animations, shaders. It was quite a looker for the time, I remember enjoying just watching synched combat animations.

What Lands of Lore has going for it is quality art...and an interface that covers 60% of the screen.

 

[d1r]

Comparing graphics of a 2D and 3D game is stupid.

What you're really looking out for here is the art style. And NWN falls flat on that one, since its one of the worst looking games of all time when it comes to that. I'd even say that Cleve's Grimoire art looks better than Neverwinter Nights.

 

[Lady Error]

What you're really looking out for here is the art style. And NWN falls flat on that one, since its one of the worst looking games of all time when it comes to that.

Yes.

I'd even say that Cleve's Grimoire art looks better than Neverwinter Nights.

As if Grimoire art is bad. There are really only a couple characters that look out of place but the rest of the art is solid.

 

[JarlFrank]

Which one of these is artistically more appealing?

NWN is without a doubt a better looking game. The quality of models and textures is good enough, especially when compared to the very first 3d games.
It is one of the first games to use real-time shadows, motion-capture animations, shaders. It was quite a looker for the time, I remember enjoying just watching synched combat animations.

What Lands of Lore has going for it is quality art...and an interface that covers 60% of the screen.

NWN looked shit even back in the day. Awkward models aside, the art direction is just bad, as is the level design: samey textures and little variation in environment, everything looks too spacious and too bland, there's little decoration.

It looks abysmal even compared to other 3D games of its time. You know which games were released around the same time? Gothic 2, Morrowind, Dungeon Siege. Goddamn Unreal was released long before NWN. They all have MUCH better art direction than NWN and therefore still look good despite their low poly 3D.

NWN never looked good. Even back in the day people said it looked like shit.

 

[Bester]

Why this codexian review says:

It's just one guy's opinion. The transition from beautiful 2d graphics to 3d low-poly crap was a painful one.