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Review RPG Codex Review: Dead State

Necroscope

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33 days in and I finally consider giving up. I don't even know why I'm still playing...


UI: Simple but does the job, or at least doesn't annoy.

RPG Elements
: Most of the non-combat skills are useful only for the shelter management, which renders them a total waste given that you want your character in the scavenging team. Other than melee/ranged, the only two usable skills are Medical for combat healing and Mechanical for lockpicking; Medical is a waste because you've got a medic among your allies since the very beginning (and if you need more than one healer in your team it means you're playing it wrong), Lockpicking is a waste because you can bash any lock with brute force - this will attract zombies, but from my experience they always end up attracted one way or another either by you or some looter brainlessly taking shots at your team. In other words: simply choose between melee or ranged, then redistribute the remaining points between Negotiation and Leadership for better dialogue options. Any jobs in the shelter can be covered by your allies while you explore with your raiding party. So much for rpg elements.

Graphics and Sound:
Passable.

Combat:
Snoring fest. The biggest annoyance is what should have been it's biggest feature - the zombies threat, which supposed to force the player into different tactics and weapons. The problem is, that as soon as the zombies in the area hear you fighting, they automatically engage in the encounter - so if there's a dozen of them around (and there usually is), you have to wait up to a minute once every turn reshuffle before all of them spend their moves catching up witch you from all the remote corners of the map. This is extremely frustrating and annoying. And yes, I play on maximum speed.

Non-Combat Gameplay:
The game follows the same routine over and over again and doesn't even try to cross-reference combat and non-combat areas of gameplay (A siege maybe? No? Okay...). Every day looks the same: you deal with some quarrels and requests in the morning, then assign jobs and go grindfesting exploring. Once in a rather long while there's some bigger event like "Oh shit the toilets are broken, you need to spend additional resources or ppl start loosing morale and shitting their pants".

Pacing and Player Motivation:
As long as you're under the illusion that something interesting is going to happen (a break-in, war between groups, some huge crisis, or at the very least some biowarian plot twist) it somehow manages to entertain. Unfortunately, at some point comes the realization that "gather resources till the game ends" is what this is all about.

Writing, Story, and Atmosphere:
A few interesting dialogues and radio transmissions is all I can say about the story and writing so far - because this is all there is really. If you're a storyfag this game is not for you, that's for sure. As for the atmosphere, it lacks but manages. Exploring grows bland Ayleid after a while and there's only Fallout 3 "skeleton holding hands" level of dramatization.

Technical: I'm yet to encounter anything game breaking, but there's an issue with different levels of the same structure turning invisible when moving between floors that annoys me. Also, some quests goals won't check off, which is a know bug from what I gathered.

Overall Balance:
Shit. Most of the gameplay time is spent effortlessly filling backpacks with loot and stomping zombies/looters. There's absolutely no feeling of struggle or hopelessness - and maybe that's the biggest problem a game set in a zombie apocalypse world can have.
 

Necroscope

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The game is bad because its too easy
Uhm, ok. Thats already been stablished.
No, the game is bad because it's extremely tedious and repetitive. I don't mind easy that much, but this game feels like a huge waste of time. It's like Persona meets zombies and TB combat, except that in Atlus games there's at least some narrative you can follow and you don't have to constantly move tons of junk from one place to another.
 

Lhynn

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The game is bad because its too easy
Uhm, ok. Thats already been stablished.
No, the game is bad because it's extremely tedious and repetitive. I don't mind easy that much, but this game feels like a huge waste of time. It's like Persona meets zombies and TB combat, except that in Atlus games there's at least some narrative you can follow and you don't have to constantly move tons of junk from one place to another.
Its tedious and repetitive because its easy, no new and interesting situations in combat, directly derived from lack of difficulty, because variety is there, but it all blends in together because you dont need to alter your aproach to win. it feels like a waste of time because you get a lot more than you need, again, its easy, no sense of urgency, you have more supplies than youll ever use. Antibiotics are pointless because its extremely hard to get infected, so thats an entire system that you never get to really experience and suffer. Further hampered by save/load during exploration.
The other point you make is lack of different scenarios, like a siege, etc. and this is true, its a mayor disappointment.
If getting to the endgame was a challenge not everyone could manage to overcome the game would be pretty fantastic. Zombras review its pretty clear, the game has the potential to be great, but its not quite ready to be played.
 

Kem0sabe

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Its tedious and repetitive because its easy, no new and interesting situations in combat, directly derived from lack of difficulty, because variety is there, but it all blends in together because you dont need to alter your aproach to win. it feels like a waste of time because you get a lot more than you need, again, its easy, no sense of urgency, you have more supplies than youll ever use. Antibiotics are pointless because its extremely hard to get infected, so thats an entire system that you never get to really experience and suffer. Further hampered by save/load during exploration.
The other point you make is lack of different scenarios, like a siege, etc. and this is true, its a mayor disappointment.
If getting to the endgame was a challenge not everyone could manage to overcome the game would be pretty fantastic. Zombras review its pretty clear, the game has the potential to be great, but its not quite ready to be played.
No amount of balance tweaking will make the game less tedious, there are major content gaps, those are what are making players leave the game half way through, the thought of repeating the same shit resource runs with no payoff in terms of story or different scenarios.

If they manage to get enough money to expand the content greatly and balance the game mechanics, this could be a decent rpg, but I'm not sure the money will come through sales wise, and with no back catalog to provide extra revenue (like doublefine), there's a big risk this is a one game studio in the making.
 

Zombra

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It's just not a good game, man. Stop defending it, guys.
It's honestly not as simple as "good/bad". 0% and 100% are not the only two numbers. It's understandable if you don't like it, but to deny that there's anything good about the game is sheer willful ignorance.

No amount of balance tweaking will make the game less tedious, there are major content gaps, those are what are making players leave the game half way through, the thought of repeating the same shit resource runs with no payoff in terms of story or different scenarios.
Completely disagree. Harder combat will make it more fun map to map, making scavenging a pleasure for its own sake instead of a time filler in between the story beats.

And as for sparseness of story - if food becomes scarce and people start getting infected, there will literally be more story. Those crisis events are already written in and just waiting to happen, but you never see them because food is everywhere and no one gets bitten.
 

Kem0sabe

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No combat is not the solution to this games every problem, there are little to no outside events beyond scavenging runs, the enemies on those runs are always the same, there is no C&c on those runs, they always end up with you going somewhere getting some stuff and returning to base, rinse and repeat.

Base management events should not have accounted for all the character interactions, they should have added much more variety.

By mid game you have seen all the basic maps, all the basic enemies, all the basic encounter types.
 

Necroscope

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Its tedious and repetitive because its easy, no new and interesting situations in combat, directly derived from lack of difficulty, because variety is there, but it all blends in together because you dont need to alter your aproach to win.
What you said may be true for ppl who care only or mostly about combat and difficulty, but I'm not a challengefag and I tend to play games on medium difficulty, hence "it's too easy" is really not my biggest grievance. The biggest issue I have with this game is its overall blandness and lack of content. One could expect some CQC and moral dilemmas from a zombie survival kind of game, rather than being forced to follow the exact same shitty pattern for god knows how many hours.

if food becomes scarce and people start getting infected, there will literally be more story.
:hmmm:
What can change the nature of an apologist?
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
No combat is not the solution to this games every problem, there are little to no outside events beyond scavenging runs, the enemies on those runs are always the same, there is no C&c on those runs, they always end up with you going somewhere getting some stuff and returning to base, rinse and repeat.
But again, that's what I'm saying. There are games in which combat itself is challenging and fun. Once zombies cannot hurt you, there is no challenge left so it combat can't be fun. If there is risk involved, it will be more fun, period. Every scavenging run will have tension and interest. I can't say that suddenly it will be mind blowing and amazing, because I don't know exactly how it will play after they rebalance ... but I do know that just tweaking the numbers can and will make it better.

Base management events should not have accounted for all the character interactions, they should have added much more variety.
More dialogue out in the field? I could go for that. I don't have a problem with the basic cadence of go out, scavenge, fight, go home, sleep, talk, go out, scavenge, etc; but sure, I'm into more.

By mid game you have seen all the basic maps, all the basic enemies, all the basic encounter types.
There are some pretty unique locations in the endgame, but again ... every encounter doesn't have to be something brand new if the combat itself is more engaging.

The biggest issue I have with this game is its overall blandness and lack of content. One could expect some CQC and moral dilemmas from a zombie survival kind of game, rather than being forced to follow the exact same shitty pattern for god knows how many hours.
So if your guys were all starving and 1/3 of them got infected, would that or would that not pose some dilemmas?

if food becomes scarce and people start getting infected, there will literally be more story.
What can change the nature of an apologist?
Do you really not get that there is writing in the game that you're not seeing because of the numbers?
 

Necroscope

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So if your guys were all starving and 1/3 of them got infected, would that or would that not pose some dilemmas?
You forget about something called execution. It would certainly add to the game if the environment would be more hostile - as in less food, antibiotics, more difficulty in obtaining them etc. - and the player would have to decide who stays or dies, but still that wouldn't change the shitty routine the game forces you into. Get up, make some decisions, assign jobs, do the run for supplies, come back, go to sleep. Repeat. Nothing of value would be lost with the number of allies reduced to half, but with more dialogue lines/options and gameplay possibilities to interact with both the player and the environment. The same goes for the number of shops, gas stations, alleys, neighborhoods etc. you visit throughout the game, and I'm not talking about making a theme park where ppl live in make-shift houses, but why not, say, a grim dark cemetery, a forest, lake, train station; in other words: some variety. Why the whole game has to look the same, why not setting the beginning on the road where the player learns how hard it is to survive without a shelter and community, then you meet some survivors, find a good place, start to fortify it, at some point a hostile group attacks you, you prepare for war, and so on, and so on. Despite the lack of challenge, the game simply feels like doing the same shit over and over and over again, and that's my main grievance. I mean for fuck's sake, you can't even pass the night on the road because the game teleports you back with some retarded message.

It doesn't matter that something is TECHNICALLY there as long as it isn't properly executed. It's like saying that some AAA game has 16 different endings. Technically.
 

Necroscope

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If you're not interested in scavenging, fighting zombies, and managing a shelter, this is the wrong game for you in the first place.
I am interested, but not in a Groundhog Day fashion. I WANTED to like this game, hence I kept playing it despite its obvious shitness, trying to convince myself it's good. But it's not.
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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If you're not interested in scavenging, fighting zombies, and managing a shelter, this is the wrong game for you in the first place.
I am interested, but not in a Groundhog Day fashion. I WANTED to like this game, hence I kept playing it despite its obvious shitness, trying to convince myself it's good. But it's not.
You've made that opinion abundantly clear. You don't like the basic idiom. You want more than fighting zombies, scavenging, base management, and ally management - even though that's what the whole pitch was about. You keep talking about how the bad balance causes problems and then insisting that bad balance isn't the problem. I'm not sure you even know what you do want, but clearly it isn't a game anything like this. That's fine, it's just not your thing. I still say that except for the bad (terrible, awful) balance, it does a pretty good job at being what it's trying to be - it's just that you don't like what it's trying to be. Nothing wrong with that, but you should have paid attention to the pitch, screenshots, videos, etc. before you bought it. I don't know why you ever thought it was going to be something else.
 

Overboard

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Hey guys, check out my sweet sweet ride:

gm-chevy-volt-no-engine1.jpg
 

Necroscope

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You want more than fighting zombies, scavenging, base management, and ally management - even though that's what the whole pitch was about. (...) Nothing wrong with that, but you should have paid attention to the pitch, screenshots, videos, etc. before you bought it. I don't know why you ever thought it was going to be something else.
So I shouldn't complain about a tedious and lacking game because it supposed to be tedious and lacking? Also, I see nothing on said videos and screenshots that would imply that repeating the same activities in the same order over and over again is what this game is all about.

I like RPGs, I like zombie apocalypse, which is why I played this game and eventually concluded it's lackluster. What's your agenda here?

You keep talking about how the bad balance causes problems and then insisting that bad balance isn't the problem.
Because IT IS a problem, just not the problem. How many times ppl got to reapeat to you that fixing the balance is not the ultimate solution to this games every problem?
 

Darth Roxor

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You want more than fighting zombies, scavenging, base management, and ally management - even though that's what the whole pitch was about. (...) Nothing wrong with that, but you should have paid attention to the pitch, screenshots, videos, etc. before you bought it. I don't know why you ever thought it was going to be something else.

There are hundreds of various sims, 4xs, tycoons et al out there that make repeating largely the same activities every day/turn enjoyable, while Dead State is supposedly boring as shit.

makes u think
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Zombra What would be a proper analogy for this game, if it were better balanced, in your opinion? X-Com where you have dialogue and C&C in your base between missions?

There are hundreds of various sims, 4xs, tycoons et al out there that make repeating largely the same activities every day/turn enjoyable, while Dead State is supposedly boring as shit.

...because of the balance?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
yes its obviously all about no factor other than them balancingz :nofunallowed:

Well, whatever the case, you said "repeating largely the same activities every day/turn" can be enjoyable, but I'm not sure Necroscope would agree with that.

A "sim/4x/tycoon/et al" experience may not be what he wanted out of his Brian Mitsoda-written, should-have-been-storyfag RPG.
 
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Necroscope

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Well, whatever the case, you said "repeating largely the same activities every day/turn" can be enjoyable, but I'm not sure Necroscope would agree with that.
I'm yet to play a sim game but I enjoyed Persona 3/4 to an extent. Persona games, hovewer, are story/dialogue heavy and can drop something that can actually surprise you - in DS there's absolutely nothing that can surprise you, because after xy days you know exactly what the game does and what it does not. Overall though, I hate routine games so I doubt I'm ever going to play any Persona again.
 

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