RPGs with good armor implementation

[Sergiu64]

Betrayal at Krondor was pretty decent too. The armor would take off a percentage off the hit depending on how good the armor was, how well repaired it was, and any further bonuses such as temple blessing and race bonus/penalty (elven armor was designed for elves for example, so only Gorath was completely compatable with it).

But yeah, Darklands was the best by far.

If we're including P&P stuff, I remember Conan D20 also had really good system.

 

[Trash]

Darklands. Heavy armor protects against a lot of damage but slows you down immensely. Light and medium armor builds really are just as viable in that game depending on what you're aiming for. Armor can also influence events outside of combat. Try swimming in a bog with heavy plate for instance.

 

[Sergiu64]

Darklands. Heavy armor protects against a lot of damage but slows you down immensely. Light and medium armor builds really are just as viable in that game depending on what you're aiming for. Armor can also influence events outside of combat. Try swimming in a bog with heavy plate for instance.

Actually heavy armor would only slow you down if your total equipped weight was over certain thresholds. And the effectivness of armor at preventing strength damage (which took forever to heal) was way too nice a thing to give up for slightly faster attacks you would get with lighter armor. The only time it was worth it is when you knew the weapons used by enemies you would be encountering would have low penetration value. But even street thugs would have clubs which had a penetration of 3, which means they would fully penetrate leather armors and partially penetrate Scale. You had to wear Chainmail or above to be immune to those guys, and once you tried to go for robber barons, you really started to need Full Plate to emerge unscathed against all but the baron himself.

 

[PorkaMorka]

A proper armor modeling system would have to also model the effects of different weapon types vs armor.

Just giving armor a flat percent damage reduction isn't really that sophisticated or accurate.

If you're wearing full plate, it's entirely possible that a solid blow with a light one handed sword would just bounce off with little significant effect.

A proper armor system would need to encompass at a minimum, modeling each broad type of armor differently, modeling slashing/impact/cleaving/impaling and piercing weapons vs each armor type and would need to include some kind of weak point and/or hit location system also, as if you pick your weapon wrong, that might be your only shot.

D&D did the ultra simple armor system for ease of play in a tabletop environment.

CRPG developers just don't feel like it, because it would be tough.

Maybe someday in Dwarf Fortress?

 

[DraQ]

Then it should be called "dodge" not armor class and it certainly should not be merged with armor properties.

That's a pretty good idea actually. I think Fallout merged them because the outcome of dodging a bullet or of a ricochet are exactly the same (ie the bullet does not hit)... though I also agree that having them as separate attributes would make more sense. The "dodge" attribute (from Agility and whatever other modifier) would then be used as a modifier to the chance to hit (if someone's very good at dodging then you need better weapon skill/perception/agility/whatever to hit him), while the "armor class" would be the chance of the bullet completely ricocheting off the armor.

The problem is that that dodging and ricochet don't work in the same way. When you successfully dodge, you don't really care what you've dodged. When the object hits, its nature is extremely important when determining the consequences, including possibility of glancing off.

If thanks to your superior agility you get out of the way of a projectile, you don't really care if it was a pebble or a tank round. If you just stand there in your PA, even a glancing hit with a tank shell will really mess you up.

Proper way to implement almost-dodge, would be to temporarily boost the DT and DR based on the roll result or hit angle, depending on the detail level of the simulation.

Now what would be really great is if this kind of system was combined with Morrowind's multi-parts that DraQ mentioned... separate AC, DR and DT for different body parts (makes sense; with something like combat armor you can make a thick padding on the chest, but thick padding on the arms would make it impossible to move them).

Fuck yeah. It would also do wonders for the tactical aspect and the fun involved.

For that matter, being able to actually aim for body parts in MW, rather than having the hit location determined by RNG would do wonders for the combat in MW as well.

 

[Trash]

Darklands. Heavy armor protects against a lot of damage but slows you down immensely. Light and medium armor builds really are just as viable in that game depending on what you're aiming for. Armor can also influence events outside of combat. Try swimming in a bog with heavy plate for instance.

Actually heavy armor would only slow you down if your total equipped weight was over certain thresholds. And the effectivness of armor at preventing strength damage (which took forever to heal) was way too nice a thing to give up for slightly faster attacks you would get with lighter armor. The only time it was worth it is when you knew the weapons used by enemies you would be encountering would have low penetration value. But even street thugs would have clubs which had a penetration of 3, which means they would fully penetrate leather armors and partially penetrate Scale. You had to wear Chainmail or above to be immune to those guys, and once you tried to go for robber barons, you really started to need Full Plate to emerge unscathed against all but the baron himself.

That's why I decked my 'tanks' out in full plate and kept my more fragile guys in chainmail and leather at the back with missile weapons. Taking out the lighter enemies first and then swarming a heavily armored and armed target also gave him lots of penalties to make it worthwhile.

I loved 'beseiging' a raubritter's castle. Combat was fun in that game.