Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Extended Edition

[Jedi Master Radek]

Hopefully this is mostly the result of rushing the game, and not because HBS lost talent (they seem to have had a high turnover rate).

The mini campaign was an a huge improvement over HK so I hope the former was the case.

 

[Lambach]

Gaichu personal mission was a huger fail than the Bhaalspawn fights in Throne of Bhaal, considering how much Gaichu built up his former team in his dialogue. Hey it's SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT.

Most disappointing fight of the SR series, by far. I actually bought a bunch of consumables for the very first time in the series expecting god-tier warriors and at least several reloads, I got 3 piss-easy mooks I could've soloed with my Mage toon.

 

[Roguey]

It makes sense on a narrative level for it to be easy because you're ambushing them.

 

[Jason Liang]

Even not counthing the shoddy encounter design, the two new additions made combat stupid:

1) As Garfunkel said, the new cyberware was ridiculously OP: The Whip, the Reload Arm, the Baseball Arm, and Wired Reflexes were all badly balanced. And look, here's a free point of essence (or 2) so go install install install! Also, grenade launcher! Unlimited Grenades that don't need accuracy! You can have one, Gunshow can have one, and your free decker comes with one!

2) The ambush system. It's a good idea and expands the gameplay, but it gave you way too much advantage. Of course, this was also why Gobbet could play much better than Dietrich, since she could pre-cast all the buffs and move into position.

 

[pippin]

The baseball arm was that thingy that allowed you to throw back grenades? Because that was hilarious, actually... Your emo brother ended up being wuite useful with that and the knockdowns.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Roguey]

At least they tackled the issue of granades by giving this cyber to almost every hostile team... which in turn made grenades useless.

Gank the grenadier first, noob.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[aweigh]

i say re-play dragonfall again instead. Dragonfall is probably my all-time favorite western RPG of the last, i dunno, 10 years probably.

or play a better rpg, like Elminage Gothic. in Hong Kong there's far too much boring shit to do and to read, and life is too fucking short to waste with this bullshit.

 

[Roguey]

this is apple orchard, so buy from owner some bananas?

Of course the combatants in charge of grenades will be able to throw them back, so kill them (or just don't target a cluster with them), and you can throw grenades to your heart's content.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[SausageInYourFace]

As Garfunkel said, the new cyberware was ridiculously OP (...) so go install install install!

I haven't played SR: HK yet, though I played the other two. When HK came out, I remember people complaining about a lack of money in HK so they were not able to get all that cool stuff, which I imagine would balance it pretty well. So, did they change the money distribution or something or are you guys exaggerating?

 

[ilitarist]

As Garfunkel said, the new cyberware was ridiculously OP (...) so go install install install!

I haven't played SR: HK yet, though I played the other two. When HK came out, I remember people complaining about a lack of money in HK so they were not able to get all that cool stuff, which imagine would balance it pretty well. So, did they change the money distribution or something or are you guys exaggerating?

Money is not really an issue. You need to upgrade your armor/weapon maybe twice each during the game, less if you're lucky and find suitable weapons in the field. There are plenty of consumables. I remember seeing weapons I can not yet afford but usually you're not upgrading because story doesn't let you yet, not because of lack of funds.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Money is an issue but as long as you do focus on your specialty, you can get all necessary upgrades though not all at once. Problem comes - just like with karma - if you want to play a hybrid character, who really are very restricted. Let's say you play a melee cyber-weapon specialist, like I did with my second character. Buying the best armour and the best implants that improved my combat skills was possible, especially since the missions hand out too many grenades and medkits, so you don't really need to buy those at all. Or rather, the missions don't require you to use them often so you can stockpile easily. So yes, occasionally you need to choose between a cyberleg and a cyberarm but you buy one, do one mission and can then afford the other. In previous versions essence was a bigger limiter than money but that extra point you gain now means that you don't really have to make hard choices between cyber-/bioware.

But if you want to run a rigger/decker hybrid, you will run low on money if you want all the best gear and implants, just like you will run low on karma if you try to raise all relevant skill equally.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Regarding the grenadiers, I find that all the enemies labelled grenadiers are the ones equipped with the cyber arm. P. simple.

 

[Jason Liang]

I didn't really have trouble affording a fully chromed samurai with two Class-S Drones... I think there's a screenshot somewhere buried about 50 pages back.

UPDATE: I went back to look for my screenshot and found some Bubbles posts...


Rereading my posts, Hong Kong is probably good for exactly one playthrough. My negativity towards it mainly stems from how awful I found it on my 2nd playthrough, which was really the opposite of Dragonfall, which I also played through twice and enjoyed just as much the 2nd time as the first. And also I'm sad and pissed that HBS never bothered to tweak this one like they did with Dragonfall.

You probably should go cyber for your first playthrough though, so you can enjoy all the OP implants and weapons. Even for a mage or an adept, it's worth getting at least Wired Reflexes and a jack for drones.

 

[Roguey]

What you are telling me is that you can target guy with such arm. Issue is initially you dont know which one is it(unless there is a way? At least I didnt find a way to mark them nor I cared really). Also there can be more than one. By the time you get rid of them enemies will scatter and grenades will be of little use again. As for not targeting cluster with them, I recall enemy magnetic arm having quite a reach, safer to forget about explosives.

You highlight them and it says "grenadier." I also recall them having a burlier character model than most.

I never had an issue with grenade use. You're blaming your inattentiveness on the game.

 

[Lhynn]

You guys make everything so complicated, game was easy enough that you didnt actually need all that crap, the expansion on the other hand had p. hard missions and i really recommend it.

 

[Jason Liang]

Hong Kong is a Story RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.
Dragonfall is a Tactical RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.

The result? Dragonfall is a game that I wish would never end. Hong Kong is a game where I simultaneously felt both "Wait, it's over already?" and "Hm. I'm kind of glad it's over already."

 

[Jason Liang]

Yeah but a decker is useful on only one of the extended campaign missions, and it isn't the last one either.

 

[adddeed]

Hong Kong is a Story RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.
Dragonfall is a Tactical RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.

The result? Dragonfall is a game that I wish would never end. Hong Kong is a game where I simultaneously felt both "Wait, it's over already?" and "Hm. I'm kind of glad it's over already."

Engine is not designed for tactical RPGs. Its shit. And that is a fact. Just how unresponsive and sluggish the UI is (delays between clicking and result, no feedback operating menus, delayed navigation, clicking not registering during gameplay, etc etc), is proof enough.

If they ever try to make another one, please choose a different engine. Unity is shit. Or how people implement it is shit. Either way, they need to improve.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[GarfunkeL]

Hong Kong is a Story RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.
Dragonfall is a Tactical RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.

The result? Dragonfall is a game that I wish would never end. Hong Kong is a game where I simultaneously felt both "Wait, it's over already?" and "Hm. I'm kind of glad it's over already."

Engine is not designed for tactical RPGs. Its shit. And that is a fact. Just how unresponsive and sluggish the UI is (delays between clicking and result, no feedback operating menus, delayed navigation, clicking not registering during gameplay, etc etc), is proof enough.

If they ever try to make another one, please choose a different engine. Unity is shit. Or how people implement it is shit. Either way, they need to improve.

They already changed engines for Battletech so if/when they return to Shadowrun, they'll either keep using the BT engine or switch again.

 

[Jason Liang]

Hong Kong is a Story RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.
Dragonfall is a Tactical RPG pretending to be an Adventure RPG in an engine designed for Tactical RPGs.

The result? Dragonfall is a game that I wish would never end. Hong Kong is a game where I simultaneously felt both "Wait, it's over already?" and "Hm. I'm kind of glad it's over already."

Engine is not designed for tactical RPGs. Its shit. And that is a fact. Just how unresponsive and sluggish the UI is (delays between clicking and result, no feedback operating menus, delayed navigation, clicking not registering during gameplay, etc etc), is proof enough.

If they ever try to make another one, please choose a different engine. Unity is shit. Or how people implement it is shit. Either way, they need to improve.

This is an implementation issue, not a design issue.

A 2 AP system is ideal for combat: every turn either move+action, action+action, extended action, move+move, or action+move. This best combat systems have this; this is ToEE's system as well.

 

[Roguey]

There are very rarely clusters of enemies that don't include one of these classes, which makes grenades pretty much worthless late-game.

Learn to play.

As I said, I used grenades often in the expansion.