Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong Pre-Release Discussion [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Morality Games]

Being honest, I want a third expansion that utilizes the Awakened world, maybe with some Earthdawn tie-ins. Don't take us this far just to give up at the finish line.

 

[Ludo Lense]

Replace the two-move system with the superior action point system.

Totally agree with you.. For once..

Eeeeh depends. Action point systems are cool when you have a plethora of solutions and a lot of variables (Laser squad, x-com etc.) Given the lack of such things in the engine I don't see the point beyond pointless nostalgia.

Does this game really have less things to do then Wasteland 2 or XCom? If you count weapon sets and the special abilities tied to different weapons.. I usually had a fair amount of options I could do.

Not saying they shouldn't add more though

It is more about how many actions you can chain. In x-com you need to move about a dozen units that can be affected by sight, guard attacks and a changing landscape within 1 turn so it makes sense that you can micro manage their movement to the last step. In Shadowrun most encounters were: move to cover, action and sometimes move again due to scripted effects (like the last fight in Dead Man where you need to be constantly on the move). But you did have some choices regarding what action you take.

 

[Infinitron]

Being honest, I want a third expansion that utilizes the Awakened world, maybe with some Earthdawn tie-ins. Don't take us this far just to give up at the finish line.

They've said that if they ever make another Shadowrun RPG, they'll probably significantly revamp the "engine". It won't be a slam-dunk same-engine sequel like this one. Of course, promises like that can be hard to keep.

 

[Jimmious]

Guys btw I've already backed the game and I'm sure I'll love it. I just don't have enthusiasm simply because I know what I'll get more or less. It'll be awesome but still!

 

[Ismaul]

They've said that if they ever make another Shadowrun RPG, they'll probably significantly revamp the "engine". It won't be a slam-dunk same-engine sequel like this one. Of course, promises like that can be hard to keep.

I hope not, they've got a good thing going there. That is, unless they can manage to keep all the good stuff and improve upon it.

 

[Jaesun]

At some point, they just are going to reach a limitation of the engine for more ideas they want to do with a game, so that is not unexpected.

Though I'm sure they can probably still crank out a few more titles (and further additions to the engine) in the future. Of which I will continue to back. Because I fucking LOVE this series. <3

 

[Ismaul]

Things I would like to see:

• More Side Content

Depends. I don't want an unfocussed game, a BG2 / TES side-quest fest where everyone just wants your help for inane shit, 'cause you just happen to be stumbling by.

If there's side content (in addition to optional / choose-your-own main content), it better be believable and your motivations for doing it well justified.

 

[Immortal]

Things I would like to see:

• More Side Content

Depends. I don't want an unfocussed game, a BG2 / TES side-quest fest where everyone just wants your help for inane shit, 'cause you just happen to be stumbling by.

If there's side content (in addition to optional / choose-your-own main content), it better be believable and your motivations for doing it well justified.

Quality over Quantity of course.. It would just be nice to go off the rails.. Not fetch quests but just bonus missions that maybe tie into the game but aren't related to a companion.

 

[Jimmious]

Things I would like to see:

• More Side Content

Depends. I don't want an unfocussed game, a BG2 / TES side-quest fest where everyone just wants your help for inane shit, 'cause you just happen to be stumbling by.

If there's side content (in addition to optional / choose-your-own main content), it better be believable and your motivations for doing it well justified.

Quality over Quantity of course.. It would just be nice to go off the rails.. Not fetch quests but just bonus missions that maybe tie into the game but aren't related to a companion.

You know one other thing that comes to mind is the weapon situation. In DF it seemed like you always just tried to get the next best one that you a)had the skills for b)could afford . I'd like some more variation of some sort

 

[Immortal]

Things I would like to see:

• More Side Content

Depends. I don't want an unfocussed game, a BG2 / TES side-quest fest where everyone just wants your help for inane shit, 'cause you just happen to be stumbling by.

If there's side content (in addition to optional / choose-your-own main content), it better be believable and your motivations for doing it well justified.

Quality over Quantity of course.. It would just be nice to go off the rails.. Not fetch quests but just bonus missions that maybe tie into the game but aren't related to a companion.

You know one other thing that comes to mind is the weapon situation. In DF it seemed like you always just tried to get the next best one that you a)had the skills for b)could afford . I'd like some more variation of some sort

I played a Mage.. I never upgraded my weapon.. Upgraded my spells a few times.. and upgraded my armor like twice.. The itemization leaves much to be desired.

 

[Dreaad]

Seems about right to me, I prefer low itemization compared to PoE or Witcher 3 overload of similar items all over the place. Changing armor every 5 minutes is not appealing, at least not in a story, atmosphere driven setting.

 

[Immortal]

Seems about right to me, I prefer low itemization compared to PoE or Witcher 3 overload of similar items all over the place. Changing armor every 5 minutes is not appealing, at least not in a story, atmosphere driven setting.

2 Upgrades for a 15 - 25 hour game compared to 5000000 upgrades for a 60 hour game.. not even close to a fair comparison.

 

[Dreaad]

How many times would you like to upgrade your gear during 15-25 hours then? Every two-ish missions seems fine to me. Several unique weapons with unique abilities spread around the game. You also got to buy neat implant stuff that gave you extra abilities otherwise unattainable. Each shop had like 5-6? armor pieces, so 15 or so in total, what more do you want? Only thing that seemed missing to me was some heavier armor that lowers speed and a few more de-buff spells or environmental trinkets.

 

[Immortal]

How many times would you like to upgrade your gear during 15-25 hours then? Every two-ish missions seems fine to me. Several unique weapons with unique abilities spread around the game. You also got to buy neat implant stuff that gave you extra abilities otherwise unattainable. Each shop had like 5-6? armor pieces, so 15 or so in total, what more do you want? Only thing that seemed missing to me was some heavier armor that lowers speed and a few more de-buff spells or environmental trinkets.

Not a hard fast rule. The only unique armor I saw was from the Shadow Lodge, the rest was just bought from the mage guy.. It would be nice to have optionally difficult combat that had some kind of unique item reward. I understand your fear / point, I just think it could be done a little better.

I am not expecting 3000 reskins of the same items just to be "Omgoose look at all teh items"

 

[Dreaad]

All the armor is kind of unique, since there isn't a standard to begin with, if that makes sense. All of it gives you different stat/skill/armor value boosts. One thing I didn't like was how items were progress locked, I think it would be a lot better if they were price locked instead, so that you could sell everything you own to buy that one thing you really want early on. That would make more sense than shopkeepers constantly getting better stock out of nowhere. Or better yet have missions that unlock better gear, like that for gun dealer.

 

[Jimmious]

I don't necessarily want to upgrade constantly, I want to have more options. Perhaps some different variations like one with more armor piercing capabilities and less damage, another with the opposite etc
In DF it was just a straight line of just going the next best thing

 

[Immortal]

I don't necessarily want to upgrade constantly, I want to have more options. Perhaps some different variations like one with more armor piercing capabilities and less damage, another with the opposite etc
In DF it was just a straight line of just going the next best thing

Yea.. sometimes there were slight variations but it was usually meant to fit one archetype.. very little power / weakness trade offs (if any).

I just don't want all my items bought from the store, otherwise what's the point of having items.. you will always just have the latest what you need so it becomes redundant. Add items off the beaten track or in optional quests so that if I put in the time or perform the special mcguffin option - I can get something unique.

 

[Ismaul]

I don't necessarily want to upgrade constantly, I want to have more options. Perhaps some different variations like one with more armor piercing capabilities and less damage, another with the opposite etc
In DF it was just a straight line of just going the next best thing

Yeah, items with the same level of power but with different advantages / disadvantages would be the way to go. 2-3 options would be enough.

Otherwise, NWN / Diablo style itemization just makes me want to throw the game away. I really don't want to have to play at Excel / meaningless stats analysis just so my characters can keep up with increasing difficulty numbers.

Tactics > Fucking Items. Only way items are interesting is if they give tactical options.

 

[Gregz]

Well this is just absurd.

In PnP DnD you are rewarded with XP and magical items, whereas In PnP Shadowrun you are rewarded with karma and nuyen. Any good Game Master would end the session by rewarding both of the above in sufficient quantity to upgrade your character's abilities and gear.

Dragonfall had itemization shortages in every category. I was especially annoyed the by the lack of cyberware upgrades.

I looooooooved being awash in weapons and accessories in JA2 1.13. If I can afford it, I want to buy it. There's no such thing as 'over-itemization' in a game without random loot generation. There's no excuse for not mirroring the Street Samurai Catalog into the game. This is a balance issue that should be treated seriously once by design, with every subsequent campaign balanced around that catalog with the idea of giving players more frequent ability to upgrade their equipment.

If you don't like or want to upgrade, don't. There are plenty of us who love to theory craft and get into the nuts and bolts of improving our characters. To me it's one of the most important and satisfying aspects of any good RPG. It's why JA2 1.13 is in my top 5, and I know that I'm not alone in that.

HS knows how to make a good story module, and that's great, but it's time to address the itemization shortcoming. One does not suffer at the expense of the other.

 

[V_K]

There are plenty of us who love to theory craft and get into the nuts and bolts of improving our characters

...and then whine that the game is too easy for your minmaxed build.

 

[Ismaul]

There's no such thing as 'over-itemization' in a game... If you don't like or want to upgrade, don't.

Really?

Here's how game balance works without a GM / level-scaling (not that I'm advocating it - a GM tailoring opposition is expected, but in computer games, it often becomes absurd). I'll take D&D as an example.

Either the desginers take into account your character having "level-appropriate" loot, and then if you don't play the min-maxing game, your character is ineffective. If there's a huge number progression for loot during the game, then if you don't minmax, you don't even have enough of an attack/damage bonus to hit enemies reliably (happens in D&D, especially high-level). And then the game becomes a boring drag.

Alternatively, the designers don't take into account your character having loot, and then if you optimize your dude's gear, enemies can't hit/kill you and you just overkill them, not even requiring tactics. And then, all the effort you spent optimizing has the end result that the game becomes fucking boring.

I'd rather play a game that has no loot at all than a game with loot bloat.

 

[Gregz]

That's bullshit because...where would you get the nuyen?

You can't farm random encounters to shore up massive amounts because there are none.

The game designer doles that out via quests, and the Street Samurai Catalog is already balanced for cost/power ratios.

 

[Ismaul]

That's bullshit because...where would you get the nuyen?

That could work out for Shadowrun, because there's no looting / income aside from quests, and there's no quests aside from the main path.

But take NWN2 for example, and the shit just keeps piling up. If Shadowrun ever goes for a more sandboxy design, problems will definitely appear.

 

[Ninjerk]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/346940/discussions/0/617336568071895801/

 

[Dreaad]

Are you telling me I can't learn world history and politics through video games!!?