Stop making quests!

[Human Shield]

Quests are for single player games, what the hell are they doing in "virtual worlds"? How many times does someone need a note delivered? How many times is the town saved "for all time"? Where the hell do these NPC get unlimited money to pay everyone to do the same thing?

Jobs should be have a lasting effect and be given to the lowest bidder. Once something is done it shouldn't revert for the next player in line.

Another source of a level grind in a static world with unlimited inflation.

 

[Tiliqua]

Quests in mmos are useful for a new player to get established, however any game that relies on them for the entire player base is bogus imo.

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

1. Wow, a non-Oblivion thread!

2. Yes, I agree. Nothing irks me more than after handing in the Ner'zul Amulet Of All Seeing And Power and some other player runs up to the NPC and is asked to retrieve this "powerful and unholy artifact" I just handed in. Or killing 20 troggs in the backhills and knowing that they will respawn again in the next 2 minutes, 14 seconds and nothing really changing. Or running off and silencing another informant so he doesn't tattle on the DED organization.

I would like to see my character leave some mark on the world even if it is small, which it should be in comparison to the larger entities namely player run guilds and alliances.

 

[Kamaz]

IMO there is quick and pretty easy cure for that - just make quest chains. Starting the game (launching the server) initiate the chain - first chain elements are generated. Then, when any of the quest is fullfilled, next element (next quest) is enabled (not specifically from this NPC) and offered to players. Chains can have limited length so they end some time. Then they can be restarted having changed some of the parameters. Chains could be splittable - depending on how you solved the one. Basically those are quests with consequences which give birth to new quests (this is pretty much how the real world functions).

Example: NPC says that you have to kill big bad Ogre Brothers who live high in the hills near village of Despair. You do that, come back and he is greatful. Having that done enables next quest - in the village of Despair local people, seeing that Ogre Brothers are killed celebrate this event and ask you to go find one exiled person which had to leave his village because Ogre Brothers were looking for him. Thats next quest. But meanwhile there is another quest - orcs offer great bounty for the one who is responsible of the Orc Brothers' death -the NPC that gave you the quest. AND! And meanwhile in nearby castle there are rumours, that Orcs are seeking revange, therefor someone (like you) must find the poor chap (that first NPC) and save his/her ass from beating up. And so on and on. Yeah, it would require a bit more work (actually helluva work), but is nothing unreal, its pure scripting and nothing THAT difficult. But I immagine that'd be better.

 

[DarkSign]

Quests are for MMOs, but only for MMOs that react to the world. NPCs that change based what happens to them can then give non-static quests.

Coupled with an expanding group of contacts based on actions and interactions quests are not obsolete.

In a responsive world, an NPC group of hackers might contact you when your hacking skill gets up to 95% and they want you to do a mission for contract...or you're travelling past a wasteland village and get ambushed because you have the medical skills that could heal their community.

You make a good point about people getting the same quests though. They should never feel like an assembly line. Yet another reason why WoW sucks.

 

[kris]

Nothing speaks immersement like standing in line to kill the bad guy.

 

[Lumpy]

Daggerfall had random quests 8 years ago. Would it be so hard for today's MMOs to reimplement them?
As for money, NPCs should sell some of the items you bring to them, to other NPCs, or to players, in order to get money to give to the next player.

 

[Drakron]

Without quests MMORPGs would simply be monster farming and chat.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

Daggerfall had random quests 8 years ago. Would it be so hard for today's MMOs to reimplement them?
As for money, NPCs should sell some of the items you bring to them, to other NPCs, or to players, in order to get money to give to the next player.

What the hell... How come YOU of all people use Daggerfall as a reference? Have you even played the game?

And what has this to do with topic at all? Most MMOs out there HAS random quests, so what the hell are you talking about? Topic is _not_ having quests, like at all, and you come dragging in with fucking suggesting implementing random quests, i mean... WHAT THE HELL!



As for the topic I say lets stop making MMORPGs.

 

[DarkSign]

Wrong. MMORPGs with real depth are the holy grail.
Ultimately, even though there are some real fucktards out there, playing in a community is better than playing with yourself.

 

[Lumpy]

Daggerfall had random quests 8 years ago. Would it be so hard for today's MMOs to reimplement them?
As for money, NPCs should sell some of the items you bring to them, to other NPCs, or to players, in order to get money to give to the next player.

What the hell... How come YOU of all people use Daggerfall as a reference? Have you even played the game?

And what has this to do with topic at all? Most MMOs out there HAS random quests, so what the hell are you talking about? Topic is _not_ having quests, like at all, and you come dragging in with fucking suggesting implementing random quests, i mean... WHAT THE HELL!



As for the topic I say lets stop making MMORPGs.

What's wrong with me?

 

[Dementia Praecox]

What's wrong with me?

Except for scoring low on Mensa tests, my guess is nothing. What's wrong with using Daggerfall as reference, is found in posts mentioning Daggerfall, with you posting, in the General RPG Discussion-area.

MMORPGs with real depth

Thats one hell of a contradiction in one sentence.

Edit:

Ultimately, even though there are some real fucktards out there, playing in a community is better than playing with yourself.

My right hand beats any MMORPG, any day.

 

[Drakron]

Well they could ... WoW does over reaching quest lines but they eventually lead to dead ends, there are stories but no story.

Guild Wars have a story but its a co-op game and its content is weak.

And yes, ultimate is the players that destroy MMORPGs ...

 

[Human Shield]

And yes, ultimate is the players that destroy MMORPGs ...

I think every example of destroyed MMORPGs was bad design decisions and increase "safe-zones" and carebear policies to make the whiners happey.

Most MMORGPs now are just big coop games that have no point.

 

[Whipporowill]

I still remember when me and my buddy's noob UO chars took down a damn crocodile as our first kill - due to some creative playing (switchbaiting with ranged and meele). I can't remember feeling such an achievement by completing a quest in WoW - they're there for (almost) everyone to accomplish. Bah.

Give me a game where:

Unique items are unique, and where you can't grind the same damn dungeon and boss for loot over and over.

Pvp actually means something, a set world where benefits are issued to a clan, race et c that has control of an area.

 

[kingcomrade]

When I heard WoW had "contested" territories, I actually thought you would be able to take control of them.

 

[errorcode]

quests/missions in MMPs is a tricky bit of ground to cover. When making quests for an MMP you've got to think of farming, balance, grouping, fairness, and reward.

Sure, unique content would be awesome. it would be amazing. but it would be remarkably cost prohibitive. Unless you created a Madlib-type mission generator, but even then all you have are the same 100 pieces being recycled over and over again.

at the moment, most mmps aim to provide a quest that 1) provides a decent reward/timesink ratio 2) is accessible to the widest base of players 3) is accessible to new players versus folks who've been playing for years 4) does not become unduly imbalanced in various group scenarios.

It's a bitch.


One of the things i'm hoping for is a smoother mission creation tool and user access to it. Allowing players to dictate the content. Quests should be a part of the games economy, but so far most mmps haven't really embraced this. all a quest really is is a job that someone doesn't want to do for themselves....shit, mmps are full of lazy fucks who don't want to do their own work...the trick is to provide the incentives and tools needed to create this niche in the socio-economic environment and then allow human greed and ingenuity to carry it through.

just my sleep deprived opinion though.

 

[DarkSign]

In other threads Ive discussed the auto-generating quest engine that a collegue of mine, Chris Fairclo in Ireland has worked out. This sort of thing on a huge basis will be what changes the face of MMOs.

 

[Drakron]

Yes ... instead of quests that are actually hand crafted we get generated crap.

Quest generation just brings out shitty quests ... just look at Sacred generated quests.

 

[DarkSign]

Not necessarily. If the NPCs have unique goals, are fitted into interesting plot arcs, and have larger relationships to groups, quest generation doesnt have to be stale.

 

[Drakron]

Oh really?

And were have we seen such system in place?

If single player RPGs do not use system and just use a combination of templates and trigger locations why is MMORPG is going to be diferent and if you think some random generation quest can beat a designed story arch quest string you are sadly mistaken.

 

[DarkSign]

1) random cant beat human-designed (not at present anyway)

2) just because single-player games dont use such a system doesnt mean it cant be good. That would be like if Fallout the MMO had come out first...with a perks system...and no singleplayer game had ever used perks...and saying "well its not in a singleplayer game!"

3) templates and trigger locations arent the only two methods of doing auto-engineered quests. this is the point where I should go into deep detail, but Ive done that already in other threads. here's the link to my earlier discussion: here - but you have to read the whole PDF before coming back :D