Super mutants in FO 3

[Mareus]

"Harold eventually found himself overwhelmed by Bob, and became rooted to the ground during his travels in the Washington DC region. Here he was discovered by several people who began to worship him as a god, and a small and exclusive cult called the "Treeminders" began to form in secrecy. Bob began to blossom and many plants grew in this area, which became green with life, a stark contrast to the outer wasteland. "

:facepalm:

 

[Brother None]

Wasn't there something in those Van Buren design docs that NMA ran a couple of years ago about Harold's tree growing until he was rooted to the ground? Or am I imagining it?

In Van Buren's story, Harold's branch got some kind of disease, which forced him to travel east looking for a cure. He happened upon Twin Mothers, and the Vault AI present there helped him cure the disease. He'd later figure into the plot because Bob (the branch) had a unique make-up that helped find a cure of the New Plague.

I do wonder what the explanation for Harold on the east coast is. Otherwise, yeah it's kind stupif.

But that Super Mutant one makes sense. So, these Super Mutants AREN'T the same ones from the West Coast?

No, actually, it doesn't make sense. Any sense. Let me explain:

FEV was based on the PIV-project, a project looking for immunity to bio-chemical warfare. The mutations were an unintended side-effect, FEV was never a mutagenic project. PIV was also a military project, consigned to Mariposa.

Suddenly, in Fallout 3 they took the accident of FEV and turned it into a mutagenic project based in a vault (which are civilian/government projects, not military), where they somehow managed to predict the effect FEV had on irradiated humans after the war (why would they even test that?) and thus used pure-strain Vault people instead (kinda like the Master, only the Master was doing it after the war and these guys for some reason pre-war) and designed a new strain of FEV that has a different effect on the super-soldiers namely making them even dumber

How much sense does any of this make?

I dunno, what's the number conceptually closest to zero?

 

[Ausir]

As usual you guys are blowing everything out of proportions. The absence of friendly super mutants is dumbing down but I see nothing wrong with Harold, concept wise. It's pretty cool actually or at least not deserving telling Todd to fuck himself. There was a lot worse stuff in FO 2, such as the shaman with magical dream powers or the intelligent radscorpion and plant.

And it's not as if Fallout 1 had substantially more friendly super mutants than FO3. But it's not that part that is bothering people. See Brother None's post.

And, oh yes, that the Enclave is responsible for their creation. Protip: Enclave bases their policies on the concept of erradicating mutants and all people with genetic mutation; they would not homebrew mutants.

Are they? From the description in the thread it looked like it was Vault-Tec's vault experiment.

Wasn't there something in those Van Buren design docs that NMA ran a couple of years ago about Harold's tree growing until he was rooted to the ground? Or am I imagining it?

You are imagining it. For Harold's story in Van Buren, see:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Harold

 

[sportforredneck]

Harold...

 

[St. Toxic]

Are they? From the description in the thread it looked like it was Vault-Tec's vault experiment.

I withdraw my statement until such time that I can re-examine its validity.

EDIT: The Vault-Tec experiment would have to be pre/mid-war-ish (anything not recent in any case), yet the vatting continues to this day. From what I read of the other posts in that NMA thread, it was implied that the Enclave was to some degree responsible for this illogical continuation.

Come to think of it, if this Vault is the only source of mutants in D.C.(undetermined at this time), there was ether a lot of people in that vault or after the Vault opened, someone/something continued to experiment/use the facility to infect outside survivors.

Because there seems to be a lot of mutants in the game, and the numbers increase day by day according to the Brotherhood Of Steel.

After the war is a different matter, we know the Enclave managed to get a hold of samples of the FEV in Mariposa and completed their studies over it but what did they do?

They experimented in Deathclaws ... its pretty clear the Enclave was not really going to start their own Super Human/Mutant project with humans, at least not when they were at the height of their power.

Their other use for FEV was development of a toxin to kill all of the FEV tainted humans, that shows that the Enclave is very much anti-mutant and xenophobe and in no way would consider creating Super Mutants.

The only way to salvage this mess would be the Enclave was trying to recreate the toxin and used Vault 87 as a control group, then something gone horrible wrong and they end up creating a new type of FEV.

...

Also think about the conditions for a bit, you are not going to find vats of FEV lying around, the only one that had the technology to create the virus is the Enclave, the Super Mutants are not going to be able to simply replicate it without access to it and they would not, most Super Mutants are not overall bright and so it would be beyond their capabilities.

I'm guessing it's possible that Drakron is a bigger dumbfuck than the rest of the NMA crew, and that the BOS are pulling shit out of their ass in an attempt to pressure the player (good luck) into doing whatever it is you do in FO3. But it does leave the questions unanswered; where are the mutant reinforcements coming from? Are the mutants dipping people? If they're too stupid to talk, how do they even manage that, and why would they do it? I can only see two possibilities, one being that BOS is making their shit up and there are no more mutants being created (if we disregard the respawn function) and two, that someone else is organizing the fev process, which in the case of Fo3 would most likely point to the Enclave, however illogical it may sound. Just assumed it was 100% solid when I first glanced through it briefly.

 

[Texas Red]

While I don't particularly like the happy ending of FO 3 Harold, I think, with some modifications, it would be more thought provoking than the one of Van Buren. I would favor a tragic ending for Harold where he goes through stages of suffering, one worse than another, than Harold being magically cured by tribals and living happily ever after in a techno paradise.

I can't believe I haven't read about Van Buren. The story is pretty good but isn't it basically the same as FO 2, with someone wanting to wipe out all the mutants?

Edit: The trend of having women super scientist everywhere must really fucking stop. Earlier SF writers didn't have a bunch of women everywhere as top people but now everyone thinks equal distribution of roles for genres should go without saying.

 

[St. Toxic]

No matter how shitty FO3 is, Van Buren was really going off in the wrong direction, based on the materials that have been made available about the game.

 

[Mister Arkham]

Wasn't there something in those Van Buren design docs that NMA ran a couple of years ago about Harold's tree growing until he was rooted to the ground? Or am I imagining it?

In Van Buren's story, Harold's branch got some kind of disease, which forced him to travel east looking for a cure. He happened upon Twin Mothers, and the Vault AI present there helped him cure the disease. He'd later figure into the plot because Bob (the branch) had a unique make-up that helped find a cure of the New Plague.

I do wonder what the explanation for Harold on the east coast is. Otherwise, yeah it's kind stupif.

Ah, yeah, that was it. Oh well. I am curious as to what sort of explanation they'll have for him being there though. I always got the impression in Fallout 2 that Harold wasn't in any real state to leave Gecko, much less would want to.

All of the bungling of the FEV back-story isn't really surprising. There are plenty of ways to explain it away I suppose, to make it make sense, but I can't Bethesda really making the effort.

And god damn but I'll be pissed off if the Super Mutants' creation is tied to the Enclave. That's just shitty writing, especially given what we now know about the Enclave being up to their old "wipe out the mutants" shtick.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Why even have super mutants again? Fallout had mutants as your enemies, in Fallout 2 you fought against the Enclave, and in Fallout Tactics the main enemy was the robot army. Here, instead of something new and cool (Soviets, aliens, some new nation, tribals, whatever. Shouldn't be too hard.) they just use super mutants and Enclave again. They made a sequel where they change the game's type and generally botch up everything that was great in the predecessors but otherwise use zero originality and new ideas. Bleh.

 

[Cthulhugoat]

I kinda liked Ent Harold until I read the bit about a cult, like everyone else. And what a surprise, the friendly super mutant looks just like every single other one in the game. Kickass effort!

soviets

Yeah, I was expecting at least a commie faction, but I don't think the geniuses even bothered with that.

 

[Drakron]

FEV was based on the PIV-project, a project looking for immunity to bio-chemical warfare. The mutations were an unintended side-effect, FEV was never a mutagenic project. PIV was also a military project, consigned to Mariposa.

Well ... no, sorry.

FEV started as the The Pan-Immunity Virion Project (PVP) in a private contractor, West Tek.

During testing they noticed abnormal growth rate accompanied by increased brain activity in the test subjects so the military decided to take control over the project, build Mariposa Base to house the (now named) FEV project and started to experiment on volunteer subjects, West Tek did retain their PVP/FEV Vats.

Then the nukes were launched, West Tek Vats were hit by the nukes and the FEV contained there evaporated, mutated and became airborne infecting everything on the surface but its mutation made it mostly "harmless".

Then you have FO1 events were it shown what the mutated FEV screwed up with the pure FEV by making the Super Mutants dumber, that was the reason why The Master was looking for "pure" humans.

Now forwarding to FO2, the Enclave manages to retrieve FEV samples from Mariposa Base ruins and starts some FEV related projects.

One was using it on Deathclaws to create Super Soldiers that would not question orders, it failed (well it worked too well since they became too intelligent and decided to run away).

Another was creating a toxin agent that would kill all the tainted humans, that is why they kidnapped the Chosen Tribe and Vault 15 dwellers.

Considering the xenophobic nature of the Enclave ... the fact they did not have any Super Human project around is telling, in fact they retain that nature in FO3 so I am not seeing doing what Bethsoft SAYS they did, if Vault 86 was a control population for another toxin that for some reason backfired into turning then into Super Mutants it would be one things, another is having a FEV project around with just a different name.

 

[Ausir]

While I don't particularly like the happy ending of FO 3 Harold, I think, with some modifications, it would be more thought provoking than the one of Van Buren. I would favor a tragic ending for Harold where he goes through stages of suffering, one worse than another, than Harold being magically cured by tribals and living happily ever after in a techno paradise.

Harold was not cured by tribals in Van Buren.

I can't believe I haven't read about Van Buren. The story is pretty good but isn't it basically the same as FO 2, with someone wanting to wipe out all the mutants?

No, he wants to freeze only the most intelligent people and wipe out the rest. And it's what was in the middle that matters.

 

[Claw]

I dunno, what's the number conceptually closest to zero?

1 - 0.9999999999...

Well, zero.

 

[Tails]

Harold, wtf? this is NIGHTMARE :evil:

No... THIS is FALLOUT!

*cries*

I would rather say that it is the same quality spin-off like FO:BOS on consoles. Can't wait to see Fallout: Dogmeat Chronicles, for Wii...

 

[NiM82]

I guess they had a spriggen asset left over from Oblivion :/

 

[ushdugery]

I wonder if todd howard would ever fellate a gun, he sure likes to fuck cannon.

 

[Brother None]

Well ... no, sorry.

Well, thanks for apologizing, but I'm not sure why you'd go "Well ... no, sorry" before basically just repeating what I said but with more detail.

I mean huh?

 

[Drakron]

You got a your details wrong when you said:

FEV was never a mutagenic project. PIV was also a military project, consigned to Mariposa.

Mariposa was build for FEV and not PVP and PVP was not a military project, it was developed by West Tek that was a private contractor.

If you want to argue about FO3 "Evolutionary Experimentation Program" that was run on Vault 87 you can go right ahead as to me it a very clumsy way to have a way for Super Mutants to be in the "Capitol Wasteland" that, if we think about it, does not even makes much sense considering FEV worked as intended as long it was not used at someone that was previous exposed to the mutated FEV and the EEP seems to works EXACTLY as FEV when used on people that were exposed to the mutated FEV BUT with even WORST side-effects and perhaps a even LESS desired effect (to the Enclave) of NOT making then sterile.

What can I say? its Bethsoft ...

 

[uhjghvt]

I forgot about this all day then I clicked this thread again forgetting what it was and saw that picture of harold and now I'm pissed off again. thanks for nothing rpgcodex

 

[Fallout_Fan_VII]

I forgot about this all day then I clicked this thread again forgetting what it was and saw that picture of harold and now I'm pissed off again. thanks for nothing rpgcodex

We aim to please. Steel be with you!

*salute*

 

[Jaime Lannister]

lol Fallout isn't "near perfect". The atmosphere and art design are perfect. It's flaws were in dialog, story, and gameplay, which, funnily enough, is where Fallout 3's flaws are. Fallout 3 looks like it did the atmosphere and art design more cohesively than Fallout 2, although not as well as Fallout 1.

 

[Brother None]

You got a your details wrong when you said:

FEV was never a mutagenic project. PIV was also a military project, consigned to Mariposa.

Mariposa was build for FEV and not PVP and PVP was not a military project, it was developed by West Tek that was a private contractor.

I summarized. I know the PIV project wasn't started in Mariposa.

However, West Tek was working on the PIV project as a major military contractor. A private company, sure, but it was a military project.

Not sure why we're niggling over these details, tho', no matter how you twist it, Fallout 3's sudden turn of the project into a Vault-Tec based mutagenic research project doesn't make sense.

 

[Lingwe]

No, actually, it doesn't make sense. Any sense. Let me explain:

FEV was based on the PIV-project, a project looking for immunity to bio-chemical warfare. The mutations were an unintended side-effect, FEV was never a mutagenic project. PIV was also a military project, consigned to Mariposa.

Suddenly, in Fallout 3 they took the accident of FEV and turned it into a mutagenic project based in a vault (which are civilian/government projects, not military), where they somehow managed to predict the effect FEV had on irradiated humans after the war (why would they even test that?) and thus used pure-strain Vault people instead (kinda like the Master, only the Master was doing it after the war and these guys for some reason pre-war) and designed a new strain of FEV that has a different effect on the super-soldiers namely making them even dumber

How much sense does any of this make?

I dunno, what's the number conceptually closest to zero?

Hey you haven't actually played the game yet. Maybe the explanation will work once you are playing it. All I'm asking for is for you to give the game a chance. Be happy that Bethesda is even making Fallout. Besides it's Bethesda's IP now so they can do what they want with it. Anyway just give the game a chance okay?

 

[phanboy_iv]

No, actually, it doesn't make sense. Any sense. Let me explain:

FEV was based on the PIV-project, a project looking for immunity to bio-chemical warfare. The mutations were an unintended side-effect, FEV was never a mutagenic project. PIV was also a military project, consigned to Mariposa.

Suddenly, in Fallout 3 they took the accident of FEV and turned it into a mutagenic project based in a vault (which are civilian/government projects, not military), where they somehow managed to predict the effect FEV had on irradiated humans after the war (why would they even test that?) and thus used pure-strain Vault people instead (kinda like the Master, only the Master was doing it after the war and these guys for some reason pre-war) and designed a new strain of FEV that has a different effect on the super-soldiers namely making them even dumber

How much sense does any of this make?

I dunno, what's the number conceptually closest to zero?

Hey you haven't actually played the game yet. Maybe the explanation will work once you are playing it. All I'm asking for is for you to give the game a chance. Be happy that Bethesda is even making Fallout. Besides it's Bethesda's IP now so they can do what they want with it. Anyway just give the game a chance okay?

Sure they can. But that doesn't mean we have to giggle happily while they butcher the franchise.

 

[flabbyjack]

... Harold hiking all the way to Washington and turning into a tree, replanting new trees (which are now full grown) and revitalizing the area round him, all within a period of 30 years or less ...

I hike to DC and turn into a tree every year for Arbor day, so Harold can do it within 30 years easily.