The XP for Combat Megathread! DISCUSS!

[Gurkog]

Instead of general xp for genociding everything in sight, the game should give your characters bonuses in combat against whatever you genocide. So you kill a fuckton of rats, and thus become really effective against rats. Since it doesn't give a bunch of general xp that rat killing won't make slaying ogres a breeze.

Why? Rats will already be easier to kill as you progress through the game. Why is it desirable to make them even less of a challenge? And why even place rats in the later game if they're going to be trivial obstacles?

you just argued against xp for them with that statement

why bother having them give xp if they are going to be easier when you gear up and level up anyway. this is not neuroscience

 

[AN4RCHID]

Instead of general xp for genociding everything in sight, the game should give your characters bonuses in combat against whatever you genocide. So you kill a fuckton of rats, and thus become really effective against rats. Since it doesn't give a bunch of general xp that rat killing won't make slaying ogres a breeze.

Why? Rats will already be easier to kill as you progress through the game. Why is it desirable to make them even less of a challenge? And why even place rats in the later game if they're going to be trivial obstacles?

What if the rats get bigger/smarter

Sure. And what if the enemies got bigger/smarter in general... and you didn't call them rats? I mean, honestly, can you tell me what is the point of separating it into "rat XP" and "hobgoblin XP"? How is that not dumber than general XP?

Instead of general xp for genociding everything in sight, the game should give your characters bonuses in combat against whatever you genocide. So you kill a fuckton of rats, and thus become really effective against rats. Since it doesn't give a bunch of general xp that rat killing won't make slaying ogres a breeze.

Why? Rats will already be easier to kill as you progress through the game. Why is it desirable to make them even less of a challenge? And why even place rats in the later game if they're going to be trivial obstacles?

you just argued against xp for them with that statement

why bother having them give xp if they are going to be easier when you gear up and level up anyway. this is not neuroscience

because general XP allows for a steady progression of enemy types/difficulty. Rat XP does not, unless you opt for Ninjerk's 'rat hierarchy', which no existing game does to my knowledge.

 

[Old Hans]

my new rpg will have rat experience points. stay tuned!

 

[Immortal]

my new rpg will have rat experience points. stay tuned!

I'm sick of these balanced games.. if I can't clear a tavern cellar of rats and get 63 XP per rat, I am not playing it.

 

[Lhynn]

I'm sick of these balanced games.. if I can't clear a tavern cellar of rats and get 63 XP per rat, I am not playing it.

Sounds better than anything poe has me doing.

 

[Carrion]

I honestly don't miss the kill XP at all. There are a few parts of the game where its absence is clearly a good thing, as it removes one unwanted layer of meta thinking from decision-making, and for most of the game it just doesn't matter. I've been generally trying to solve things nonviolently when possible, but it's not like I've shunned from combat (got the "Super Murderer" achievement already in Act II, for example), and for me XP doesn't even enter the equation when it comes to enjoying or not enjoying all those fights. My motivation for fighting a horde of xaurips isn't the XP they drop, it's the stuff they might be guarding, the items they might have, the interest in knowing what lies in the next room ― in short, the stuff that you'd actually expect to be of interest to adventurers. Fighting still gives you an access to an enormous amount of loot that you can throw into your infinite stash and make tens of thousands of copper pieces in the blink of an eye, and even that is arguably too big an incentive for just killing everything while you're at it. I really don't get the people who are claiming that the lack of kill XP has all but killed their interest in combat and exploration, like getting rewarded at every turn for even mundane stuff was the only thing that kept them going in other games.

I do agree that the objective XP is a mess due to the very arbitrary placing of the XP rewards, though, and it seriously would've needed adjustment. If your quest is to fetch an item from a fucking dragon and bring it back to the quest giver, it's pretty obvious that obtaining the item is the actual challenge and the part that should give you the greatest amount of XP. Instead, the game barely rewards you at all for that and only dumps a big chunk of XP your way when you finally turn in the quest. There are plenty of other examples where the game rewards you for simply talking to somebody or going to the right place, which might be something a simple as walking through a door or down a flight of stairs ten feet from the quest giver, whereas the actual quest part only gives you a meager amount of XP at best.

 

[Lhynn]

Itemization is banal shit boring and exploration in this game is non existant.

 

[Zombra]

You are envisioning a system that doesn't exist (especially in this game) and defending it hypothetically..

Yep, that's not a crime, is it?

If I take empirical data of the IE games / Wasteland 2 / PoE.. it's clear who shit the bed when it comes to game progression. (If you bring up Bloodlines / Shadowrun as a comparison to these games I will slap you)

Well - to agree with you again, I'm more interested in what we can learn and envision for future games and not whether or not POE's system is awesome. I've already conceded that POE isn't perfect. Honestly I still like it though.

In a perfect world.. Kill XP would die.. If they could deliver what Objective XP was promised to be, then good riddance. They can't though, not on this budget. Kill XP would be better then what we got and that is the sole reason why it works for combat heavy games like this and why I push for it so much.

Eh, I still enjoy the sensation that killing isn't a goal in and of itself.

Apropos of nothing, I dream of learn-by-doing RPGs that eliminate levels and generic XP altogether. But that's another thread.

 

[Carrion]

Itemization is banal shit boring and exploration in this game is non existant.

Yes, and unlike the lack of kill XP those are actual problems (especially itemization). Again, if you demand that the game should give you a blowjob after every fight, it means that there are deeper issues somewhere else in the game.

 

[Lhynn]

Its not about reward, its about whats fitting, the fact that it doesnt bother you tells me that you dont really care for coherence or consistency in your game, players getting stronger for doing chores and staying the same after slaying the most powerful beasts in the world, after overcoming and NOT growing from those experiences.

Besides, you are the one that doesnt want combat xp, because you cant resist the temptation to murder everyone after you did the quest.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

This thread: morons getting riled up over nothing (and notice how it's always the same 5-6 drama whores filling the PoE threads with their endless whining).

I couldn't care less about combat XP and I barely notice why and when I recieve XP awards, anyway. As I advance through the game my character gets stronger, that's all there is to it.

In an RPG like this character progression will always be controlled by the designers anyway and strictly tied to game progression.What does it matter if you receive XP for quests or for killing monsters which in most cases is an integral part of those quests?

I'm about 25 hours into the game and while enjoy the combat system a great deal I'm slowly getting tired of clearing wilderness maps of critters. No amount of combat XP would change that however, while better exploration and encounter design certainly could.

 

[Carrion]

Its not about reward, its about whats fitting, the fact that it doesnt bother you tells me that you dont really care for coherence or consistency in your game, players getting stronger for doing chores and staying the same after slaying the most powerful beasts in the world, after overcoming and NOT growing from those experiences.

Can't get much more coherent and consistent than giving 0 XP for every kill, and the most fitting choice for a role-playing game is one that encourages role-playing. I don't think pointless chores should yield any XP either, and in this game the definition of pointless chores would probably be something like a band of xaurips. On the other hand, defeating the "most powerful beasts in the world" probably should be worth some experience, but why go specifically for kill XP? Odysseus never killed the cyclops but probably deserved a fair chunk of XP for his efforts nonetheless.

Besides, you are the one that doesnt want combat xp, because you cant resist the temptation to murder everyone after you did the quest.

Yes, that is exactly the reason it should be gone. This discussion has finally gone full circle.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

This thread: morons getting riled up over nothing (and notice how it's always the same 5-6 drama whores filling the PoE threads with their endless whining).

I couldn't care less about combat XP and I barely notice why and when I recieve XP awards, anyway. As I advance through the game my character gets stronger, that's all there is to it.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

What does it matter if you receive XP for quests or for killing monsters which in most cases is an integral part of those quests?

Because if I start a new playthrough to try out a different class I'd rather skip on doing all those fetch quests (that shower me with XP) again and listenning to every dirty villager's plight, combat atleast involves some player agency and effort. I prefer having alternative ways of gaining XP instead of it being tied to one thing, don't care if that's achieved through objective XP or combat XP+quest XP.

 

[Ninjerk]

What does it matter if you receive XP for quests or for killing monsters which in most cases is an integral part of those quests?

Because if I start a new playthrough to try out a different class I'd rather skip on doing all those fetch quests (that shower me with XP) again and listenning to every dirty villager's plight, combat atleast involves some player agency and effort. I prefer having alternative ways of gaining XP instead of it being tied to one thing, don't care if that's achieved through objective XP or combat XP+quest XP.

Then you would be having fun the wrong way.

 

[Athelas]

Just give yourself a bit of XP through console commands after every encounter. After finishing a quest, you could even go back to kill the quest givers and console command yourself some XP for it.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Just give yourself a bit of XP through console commands after every encounter. After finishing a quest, you could even go back to kill the quest givers and console command yourself some XP for it.

Just because I'm degenerate doesn't mean I'm a cheater.

 

[RK47]

I dunno about you, but right now - it's not really a question of the plot motivating me onward.
I'm just curious on what other spellbind stuff I can employ in the party.

Right now I have a Bleakwalker Paladin running around with 2 Blunderbusses and a Pistol. Once the three pistols are unloaded, he'll call down Firebrand from his gloves and just mow down the remnants with burning Violence and Authority.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

What does it matter if you receive XP for quests or for killing monsters which in most cases is an integral part of those quests?

Because if I start a new playthrough to try out a different class I'd rather skip on doing all those fetch quests (that shower me with XP) again and listenning to every dirty villager's plight, combat atleast involves some player agency and effort. I prefer having alternative ways of gaining XP instead of it being tied to one thing, don't care if that's achieved through objective XP or combat XP+quest XP.

So you'd like to run around in the wilderness killing things but ignore the quests, most of which...require you to run around through the wilderness and kill things. Maks perfect sense. Also the game is balanced around characters who don't do much of the side quests anyway, so you should be fine. Of course If all the quests annoy you I don't why you'd want to replay the game in the first place, certainly not for the character and combat system that received so much bitching I assume?

 

[Lhynn]

Yeah, i dont know why anyone would like to replay this shit either.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I also love to hang around sub forums of games that I utterly hate and that have no redeeming qualities in my eyes and discuss them to death.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

So you'd like to run around in the wilderness killing things but ignore the quests, most of which...require you to run around through the wilderness and kill things. Maks perfect sense.

Don't remember many wilderness areas that are tied to quests, aside from bounty fights which are spread all over the world. However, yes I'd rather explore wilderness, kill things and get XP straight away rather than always having to run back to some random guy that pats me on the head and gives me XP candy for doing his bidding.

Besides, a nice alternative to usual character advancement would be going straight for the Endless Paths and getting rewarded for beating fights that are above your level.

Also the game is balanced around characters who don't do much of the side quests anyway, so you should be fine.

That's a good point actually.

Of course If all the quests annoy you I don't why you'd want to replay the game in the first place, certainly not for the character and combat system that received so much bitching I assume?

I like this type of game (isometric, party based, semi-nonlinear RPG), enjoy the setting/companions/lore for the most part and I find the character creation and customization decent. Also, love the graphics and art style (probably the most beautiful game I ever played, along with PST) and yes that aspect of the game matters to me, not gonna pretend it doesn't .

Any of my favourite games I could list a dozen of flaws, If I don't like the game I usually don't care enough to post about it. PoE is the best kickstarter game for me so far, I just hoped it would be better (or more to my taste if you prefer) in some areas and think some design directions devs took are holding it back.

 

[SirSingAlot]

you cant grind XP via fighting. so?

usually fighting is followed by quest/storyline progression, which is rewarded by XP, which comes down to...the same.

no biggie as i thought at first, doesnt bother me all too much after around 40hrs of gameplay

 

[Cadmus]

you cant grind XP via fighting. so?

usually fighting is followed by quest/storyline progression, which is rewarded by XP, which comes down to...the same.

no biggie as i thought at first, doesnt bother me all too much after around 40hrs of gameplay

usually, fighting is followed by fighting, fighting again and more fighting, loading screens and then a quest

 

[Lhynn]

I also love to hang around sub forums of games that I utterly hate and that have no redeeming qualities in my eyes and discuss them to death.

I dont hate it, just disappointed in obsidian. With what theyve done in the past i was expecting better.

Also what the fuck is it with codexers nowdays? "if you dont like it dont talk about it" bullshit, shouldnt even be brought up in this site.

PoE is the best kickstarter game for me so far

What? no it isnt, as i said before, it isnt a bad game, but Dragonfall and D:OS are better.