Ultima IV

[Saxon1974]

IS this game just too dated to play anymore? I know graphics dont make a game and I loved this game as a kid, so just went back to playing it again (With updated VGA graphics).

I haven't got very far and im just wondering what you all think. Still worth playing?

I have been trying to get a copy on ebay but the original copy is selling for like 80$.

 

[Mayday]

I've played it for the first time about a year ago and enjoyed it.

 

[Saxon1974]

I've played it for the first time about a year ago and enjoyed it.

I wonder if its more fun for a new player or for someone who has played it before....The thing is I played it back in like 1986 when I was about 12, so I only remember some of it. I remember me and my friends didnt like it at first because you had to be too good, you couldnt steal like you could in Ultima III.

Speaking of Ultima III, thats the first RPG I really got started on, think I was about 10 and my cousin got me into it.

Does anyone know where you can find a playable version of Ultima III for the PC? Using dosbox maybe? I cant seem to find the PC version files anywhere downloadable.

 

[Jasede]

It looks fugly and sounds horrible.

UNLESS-

You get yourself a Sega Master System II emulator and the Ultima IV rom. It's awesomely playable then, looks great, sounds all right... you have no excuse not to play it through. Get to work. The refreshing gameplay should be worth it.

Edit: Take notes!!

 

[BigWeather]

If you want to legitimately get Ulitma 3 you'll likely want to pick up the Ultima Collection that was released about 1998 or so. You'll still need DOSBox to get it to run easily, though.

As for Ultima 4 (which is freeware), be sure and get the upgrade from http://www.moongates.com/u4/upgrade/Upgrade.htm .

"Upgrades Ultima IV to 256 color graphics with MIDI support. The patch replaces the tileset, font, game, and cutscene graphics, as well as correcting several conversation bugs within the original .TLK files. Adds command keys to Reload the last saved game and Exit to the OS."

Edit: Whoops, just re-read that he's already upgraded U4. Sorry for the redundant info.

 

[Saxon1974]

It looks fugly and sounds horrible.

UNLESS-

You get yourself a Sega Master System II emulator and the Ultima IV rom. It's awesomely playable then, looks great, sounds all right... you have no excuse not to play it through. Get to work. The refreshing gameplay should be worth it.

Edit: Take notes!!

The sega version screentshots dont look much better than the VGa upgraded ultima IV, so I will play that version.

Are there any gameplay changes in the sega version?

 

[Mayday]

yes, the controls are much harder

 

[cutterjohn]

U4 is not a bad game, IMO, but U5 was WAY WAY WAY better IMO as well... Beyond that both are equally dated as they were developed on, written, and designed for 8bit PCs of the 80s...

U5 had WAY WAY WAY more world interaction than U4, and was significantly larger, even if the Ultima RPG mechanics really started sucking with U4 and beyond...

 

[FrancoTAU]

It's old enough where I couldn't recommend it to anyone unless you grew up sometime in the DOS era. I love the game, but if you're recommending an Ultima to a new fan than I'd go with 6, 7 or the recent U5 remake.

 

[Shagnak]

even if the Ultima RPG mechanics really started sucking with U4 and beyond...

This isn't the first time you've said this, and I'm just wondering what you're on about.

Given that:
U4 added a proper dialog system to the Ultima series.
U5 added things like proper day-night cycles (for example).
Both were much larger than their predecessors.
Both added complex (for the time!) ethical mumbo jumbo to character creation and quest mechanics that was a rarity in RPGs.
And:
There is no mechanic in U1, 2, or 3 that is superior to the mechanics in U4 or U5. And mechanics-wise they stand up to the games of their respective years.

...please explain.

 

[cutterjohn]

There is no mechanic in U1, 2, or 3 that is superior to the mechanics in U4 or U5. And mechanics-wise they stand up to the games of their respective years.

...please explain.

Hmm.. Ok You're right on U1 and U2 as they had no real mechanics at all other than endless levelling, or did they even have levels? I clearly remember BUYING hps, but the level part is a little hazy...

U3:
lots of races
lots of classes
no level limit IIRC
parties
separate combat screen

U4:
human only
drastically reduce # of classes
L8 limit introduced
dorky avatar storyline introduced with pseudo morality

 

[Shagnak]

parties
separate combat screen

These were introduced in U3, making it a big improvement over U1 and U2.
But U4 and 5 also had these so they don't count :p

dorky avatar storyline introduced with pseudo morality

This theme is what made Ultima what it was! It added levels of complication to the game that did not exist in the predecessors (or competition), which were simplistic one dimensional dungeon hacks. The fact you think this detracts indicates you are not much of an Ultima fan at all.

So, some arbitrary classing differences that do not effect the gameplay much at all, massive improvement in interactivity (object interactivity, NPC interactivity/dialog - you couldn't even converse properly with characters in U3!), better immersion/more alive world through a stronger story and like day/night cycles, considerably more choices and consequences (e.g. actions actually affect your standing and success in the main overarching quest).

Now, some of that stuff above is definitely RPG mechanics, or affected the mechanics of the game, and they were massive leaps ahead of what U3 had.

The "character creation/development" aspects you complain about are not the be-all and end-all of RPGness. I don't remember the "less classes" or lower level limit at all (I need to dig my C64 and Amiga originals out), but it didn't affect character development and progression significantly as far as I could tell. Maybe the whole "you are the Avatar" thing distracts from that.
Level numbers are arbitrary - does it really matter 8 vs 16 vs 32? Surely what matters is what they mean relative to the the difficulty level of the game world (or parts of).
The moraility system added complexity to character development (i.e. development wasn't just limited to what you did when you "leveled up"). And "races"? Please...bobbits and fuzzies?

The stuff I detail above had a much more significant (positive) affect than the top three points you mention.

Edit: oh well, something positive to come out of this is I now have a yearning to dust off my C64 and Amiga and have another look *sigh* :nostalgia:

 

[cutterjohn]

parties
separate combat screen

These were introduced in U3, making it a big improvement over U1 and U2.
But U4 and 5 also had these so they don't count :p

Bzzt! They first appeared with Ultima III. (U1/2 were the single char Ultima games.)

Other points, well, IMO there was no meaningful party NPC interaction of any sort until U6. As to generic NPCs U4/5 weren't that much ahead of U3, and U3 did introduce quests as well. I suggest that you go refresh your memry a little.

Mechanics: A very large portiong of what makes a CRPG a CRPG, along with tactical TB combat, a backstory of some sort, and quests of various types.

 

[Shagnak]

parties
separate combat screen

These were introduced in U3, making it a big improvement over U1 and U2.
But U4 and 5 also had these so they don't count :p

Bzzt! They first appeared with Ultima III. (U1/2 were the single char Ultima games.)

Can't you read? That is exactly what I said in the part you quoted.
"These were introduced in U3, making it a big improvement over U1 and U2."
And my point is that since U4 and U5 had them also, they cannot be in your list as an improvement over U4/U5.

As to generic NPCs U4/5 weren't that much ahead of U3

You couldn't hold any sort of meaningful dialog with them in U3. I think they had one line responses and that's it. Conversation can vastly enhance the personality of a character. It was a fairly important change at the time and one of the stepping stones to lifting the series above primitive dungeon bashes.

and U3 did introduce quests as well

So? These were also in U4 and U5.

So far the only valid point you have boils down to more character creation options.

I suggest that you go refresh your memry a little.

I suggest you improve your reading and comprehension skills.

 

[Saxon1974]

Started another playthrough of Ultima IV using xu4 with the upgraded graphics.

Got a question;

What a normal amount for a stat to increase when leveling up. My fighter leveled from 3 to 4 and his strength went from 25 to 32 and dex went from 19 to 26. That seems a bit high to me does that sound normal?

Im just curious if the xu4 snapshot I have is borked or not....

 

[Ivar the Boner]

It's mighty fine game even by today standards. I don't think it's aged badly. Also, with upgrade patch it looks better than ultima V (which is best looking ultima in my opinion). My only problem with this game is lack of challenging fights, combat is piss easy, and feels like 'thwack ye mole'.

 

[Jaesun]

Started another playthrough of Ultima IV using xu4 with the upgraded graphics.

Got a question;

What a normal amount for a stat to increase when leveling up. My fighter leveled from 3 to 4 and his strength went from 25 to 32 and dex went from 19 to 26. That seems a bit high to me does that sound normal?

Im just curious if the xu4 snapshot I have is borked or not....

I forget exactly how the whole stat thing works in IV. The one thing I DO remember that there was kind of a bug when you level. Say you are currently level 3 but now have enough XP to be level 5. When you level up you ONLY get a stat increase for 1 time (instead of getting 2 stat increases). This may be fixed now with xu4.

 

[Ivar the Boner]

Started another playthrough of Ultima IV using xu4 with the upgraded graphics.

Got a question;

What a normal amount for a stat to increase when leveling up. My fighter leveled from 3 to 4 and his strength went from 25 to 32 and dex went from 19 to 26. That seems a bit high to me does that sound normal?

Im just curious if the xu4 snapshot I have is borked or not....

I forget exactly how the whole stat thing works in IV. The one thing I DO remember that there was kind of a bug when you level. Say you are currently level 3 but now have enough XP to be level 5. When you level up you ONLY get a stat increase for 1 time (instead of getting 2 stat increases). This may be fixed now with xu4.

But that actually doesn't matter since it's easy to max out all your statistics early on by touching magic balls (jesus, that sounds stupid) in dungeons.

 

[Elzair]

IS this game just too dated to play anymore? I know graphics dont make a game and I loved this game as a kid, so just went back to playing it again (With updated VGA graphics).

I haven't got very far and im just wondering what you all think. Still worth playing?

I have been trying to get a copy on ebay but the original copy is selling for like 80$.

Yes, it is worth playing. I think I got a boxed copy for like $25. Of course, it did not come with the 5.25'' disks, and the ankh was broken. Still, what the hell would I have done with those disks anyway? It may not have much collector's value, but I still can look at the box, read the printed manuals and stare at the cloth map, and that is always a plus.

 

[Elzair]

yes, the controls are much harder

More liek "yes, the controls are much shittier "

 

[Elzair]

Damnit, fucking necroes!

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Saxon, I thought you were a C64 man? It is the best version of IV, and then you can import your character to UV. Of course you can also do this with the other versions, but the music isn't as good.

 

[Saxon1974]

Saxon, I thought you were a C64 man? It is the best version of IV, and then you can import your character to UV. Of course you can also do this with the other versions, but the music isn't as good.

I am a C64 guy, just felt like playing a different version for a change. Can you import characters from IV from the C64 version into UV running on the C128? Also, I use the gold version that's a .d81 file extension that runs off a single disc.

Edit post, just tried importing from the U IV gold version into the C128 version of UV and it doesnt' work (Didnt expect it to since different disc name and file type)

 

[Saxon1974]

I decided to go back to the c64version since im not confident that the xu4 program is stable. Supposedly its finishable but with the current build my game freezes in the castle prison every time. Don't want to play it for a long time then get stuck due to a bug.

One thing I always struggled with in U4 was honesty. The game asks you questions like; have you ever comitted a crime? is it talking about in game or real life? Assuming game but it says my honesty isn't good and I have tried to be honest.

Which questions affect honesty status? Some are a bit vague like do u like my song? I would assume that's not included since its an opinion.

 

[Xor]

For honesty, just buy a bunch of regents from the regent vendor one at a time and pay the asking price - each sale raises your honesty, and I'm pretty sure it raises a few other virtues.

I don't remember being penalized in honesty for answering a question since maxing it.



Humility, on the other hand...
"Art thou an Avatar?
Yes
You have lost an Eighth"