Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Ultima V - Lazarus

Silellak

Cipher
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Tucson, AZ
Saint_Proverbius said:
Be less stupid, please. If they don't have the source, they're not modifying the engine's code. Period.

This is 2008. 35 years since computers became consumer level items. Computers aren't magic. Things like "NO SOURCE, NO CHANGE TO EXECUTABLE CODE" should be something that isn't questioned at all.

I should've realized after your last abortion of a post that any chance at reasonable discussion with you is impossible.

I am a computer programmer, I know how teh magic boxez work. My question is that I don't know just how the mod tools are for Dungeon Siege, and whether or not the scripting language allows one to go so far as to call external libraries or modules - written without the original source code - to indirectly modify the engine "above and beyond" what is usually possible with scripting.

Unless you know how Dungeon Siege modding works in detail, you need to shut the fuck up and let the big boys talk. If you'd used any imagination, or had any technical knowledge at all, you'd realize my statements weren't contradictory and I was considering the fact that maybe it is possible to mod the Dungeon Siege engine without having access to the source code itself. Do I know? Nope, I don't know shit about Dungeon Siege modding, it's just a guess based on the fact that a lot of the changes made to the game seem to be much greater than what's possible with scripting alone.

I realize you'd rather just find a way to insult me, rather than actually considering what I have to say, but maybe now that I've spent the time spelling it out for you, maybe we an have a reasonable discussion, like two adults?

Nah, who am I kidding? That possibility clearly went out the window the instant you opened your mouth and starting vomiting all over the thread.
 

TheWesDude

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
3,720
Location
Norfolk VA
DS:

torque
DS scripting engine
DS game files

lazarus:


torque
DS scripting engine
lazarus game files


thats why its a total conversion

so you define a game as to the engine it runs, not the content of the game itself. so in your eyes that would make:
ultima 6, martian dreams, savage empire

just mods to the engine. they all used the same engine and scripting mechanics. they just changed the art/mechanics for the different versions.
 

Silellak

Cipher
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Tucson, AZ
I've now done some actual research on the topic of Dungeon Siege engine modding, since I prefer to actually know what I'm talking about before I start insulting the people I'm having a conversation with. And hey, look what I found:

http://garage.gaspowered.com/?q=su_304

Introduction
This Article Is About How To Extend The Dungeon Siege Engine With New Functions That You Create. Even Though There Are Thousands Of Functions Available To Be Called From Skrit, Sometimes You Just Have To Write Your Own Function To Get What You Want Done. For Example, Say You Are Creating A Mod That Needs To Talk To A Database To Register Player Stats, Or You Want To Do Something Simple Like Query The System Time In Order To Make Your Mod "Real Time". To Do Either Of These Things You Will Need To Create A Set Of Functions In An Engine Extension That Can Be Called From Within Your Mod's Skrit Code.

In A Nutshell, To Extend Dungeon Siege With New Engine Functions For Skrit To Use:
Create A Dynamically Linked Library (DLL) And Set Its Output Extension To Be .Dsdll Rather Than .Dll.
Export The Functions Using The Compiler's "Declspec( Dllexport )" Tag That You Want The Game To See.
Put The Resulting .Dsdll File In The Same Directory As DungeonSiege.Exe.

The .Dsdll Is Simply A Plain DLL Renamed To .Dsdll And Loaded With Exported Functions. As Such, It Can Do Whatever It Likes In The System, Calling Out To The Internet, Playing Sounds, Reading The Keyboard, Using Files On The Hard Drive, Etc. - There Are No Limitations Placed On What DLL's Can Do In Windows.

So...you can extend the Dungeon Siege engine using external Dungeon Siege-specific DLL's. Written without access to the source code. Almost exactly like my theory predicted. Wow, it's like I actually know something about technical design and programming, like I do this for a living or something, as opposed to some sad fuck who helps run an RPG website. Of course, I could be wrong, maybe you are a software developer as well. I imagine you're a pretty shitty one, given your complete lack of imagination, but hey, someone out there has to be write that crappy VB code and throw insults at anyone who thinks outside the box.

Even knowing this, you may not consider Dungeon Siege to be anything more than a mod, since those DLL's - as powerful as they are - are still just extending the DS scripting language and not actually modifying the source code directly. I will admit by comparison to UT3 vs. Mass Effect or Bioshock was not a fair comparison, and I was wrong to make it. Obviously, this is not the same as buying the rights to an engine and changing the actual source, but it's pretty damn powerful. I was also wrong to use the term "modify" the engine rather than "extend" the engine. Still, a talented development team could do quite a bit with the ability to extend the DS engine with DLL's, but then, if you'd actually played Lazarus, you'd already know that.

At thist point, it really becomes a semantic discussion as to what a "mod" is. If they'd bought the rights to the engine and had access to the source code, and changed a single variable name, and recompiled the engine, would that make it worthy of being a full game rather than "just a mod"? Where is the line drawn? I guess it's quite clear we won't agree, and any further discussion with you on this point is irrelevant, as you've shown that you just immediately devolve into personal insults rather than doing 10 whole minutes of "research" on Google to better understand what you're talking about.
 

bardon777

Novice
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Messages
27
Lazarus just made me replay(and finally beat) Ultima 5. Laz was pretty and on all (for a mod) but I think that was part of the problem. Ultima 5 is a dark game.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom